Bass guitar players...

Whoops, meant are there, not they!!

Royle-
I'm a bass player for at least the last 35 years and love it. I'll suggest some books below, but I must first state the importance of lessons and a good mentor. And a solid foundation of musical understanding.
My 12-y-o son has expressed some interest in the bass, he's even recorded it a bit on some of my tunes.
Since I don't know you or your son, I'll have to make some assumptions that this is his first musical endeavor. Even if it is not, most of my comments apply.
This is free advice, so value it accordingly...
Piano lessons would be much better to ground a bass player than guitar lessons. Bass players have to consider more about bringing the music together than guitar players do, typically, and need to understand chords, rhythms, space, GROOVE at a high level in order to be a great player.
That being said:
I'm guessing he wants to start thrashing in a band, attracting cute 15-y-o girls and dreaming of rock and roll fame. Excellent stuff! (Sounds good to me, as long as the girls are closer to my age!)
He'll ultimately be able to go farther with this if he considers himself a musician that plays bass rather than a bass player...
Reading music is almost as important as being able to play. Reading tablature is not the same as reading music, I would avoid any books that do not show the notes on the musical staff and have exercises where the fingerboard is mapped to the staff. He'll be a much more flexible musician (and able to command better quality gigs) if he learns to read as well as play by ear.
Next is the mentor: A solid example of what a bass player can be will help to inspire him to higher levels. Musical hero worship is fine but a real, accessible person will ultimately mean more to him.
And a community of other bass players/musicians is vital. There are several good ones on line, my favorite is The Bass Vault. I personally know the two that run this community and several of the key members. A good group for any level of player. This is a paid subscription but worth it if it has any interest for him.
Another group on line is Talk Bass but I don't recommend that for a beginner. I'm not much on it myself but I know others that are addicted.

Books:
Hal Leonard's Bass Method Book 1 by Ed Friedland
and
Instant Bass which has a play-along CD and comes highly rated.

Good luck and keep us posted!

David

edited for content

I'm also a bass player since a teenager, and still get regular gigs. I disagree totally with the suggestion of learning guitar first, as they are quite separate instruments. Bass guitars are developed from the double bass, have the same tuning, and are a rhythm section instrument. The key to learning bass is to listen to bass players on recordings. This will be difficult if trying to hear what the guitars are doing too.
Many guitarists "have a go" at bass in rehearsal rooms and studios, and are nearly always surprised how bad they are at it. Basses require a different dicipline, they are not easy guitars for the less gifted.
A teacher will save years of misdirected effort, but can hamper free thinking.
I don't feel that I got all that much from tutor books, but would second the Hal Leonard.
Being a reader is a great help (I am painfully slow), but I think tab has its place and is perfectly respectable for a beginner.

Dear Doc, and Blue,

I have surprised myself and others that from the double bass I easily picked up and played a bass guitar. I can get nothing out of a normal six stringer. I would not start the bass guitar now without proper lessons from the start, though. I got on nicely with a fretless, and peeved its owner by playing three octaves of F major in tune and back down without even thinking about it! His comment was, "Oh f***! How did you do that?"

That used to be a party trick of mine on the double bass, in one bow stroke, acscending, and another, decending! That takes some doing!

I would not be surprised to find that a Bass guitar is as technically divorced as is the double bass from the 'cello let alone the violin!

I never have had the determination to start a new instrument, though! I enjoyed the playing when I was doing it, but enjoy listening to others - better than me! - playing now. I admire anyone who plays. I takes real guts to play in public, and as any player will tell you, not all days are equally good for playing!

ATB from George

George-
I learned stringed instruments on the double bass as a kid and it stuck with me when I moved to electric bass. Still play double bass though mine is not a real bass, rather an acoustic electric from this company BSX. I have the Allegro model.
Yes, electric bass and double bass are different instruments for sure.
And playing double bass certainly helped me understand the layout of the instrument's fingerboard and easily pick up fretless.
Doc, you said it best:

quote:

Basses require a different dicipline, they are not easy guitars for the less gifted.

It certainly seems easy when you see someone playng it well. When other musicians are contemplating a bass player I usually ask, "Really, now, how hard could that be?" And I will weigh my decision on playing with them on their reaction!
As for tab, I can barely read it! I have a very good ear and can play with no music on almost any gig. Also, I can transpose music written in any key in any clef and play the bass part but I can't "sight read" tab! Go figure.
My point is that it becomes a crutch for beginning players and if they don't see the value in reading real music early then learning to read later is a bigger problem.
At any rate, there are many paths to low-end enlightment and I hope the Royle's son finds a good one.
David

Once again many excellent thoughts and suggestions - many thanks.
As much as I love my music neither I or anyone in the family have had any musical instrument knowledge / teaching, I have therefore taken the steps of:-
1/ purchasing Hal Leonard's Bass Method Book 1 by Ed Friedland
2/ starting talking to a couple of musical friends re. a good tutor
3/ lent him my Sennheiser 600's (it's worth it!)
Any further hints would be much appreciated - thanks!

I recommend exposure to these very different bass players that represent some of what can be realized with the electric bass:

• James Jamerson, who played on most of the Motown hits in the ‘60s and early ‘70s
  
• Jaco Pastorius, a pioneer on the instrument in so many ways, try his self-titled solo album from ~1976 and his ground-breaking playing on Weather Report's Heavy Weather
  
• Victor Wooten, an amazing musician that can groove through many styles and sets the bar for technical AND musical playing – his solo work is great but take the first steps with his playing in Bela Fleck and the Flectones albums Left of Cool and Outbound
  
• Geezer Butler in the early Black Sabbath days such as Paranoid - if you can stand him listening to Sabbath, the bass playing is deceptively simple and exactly "right" for the songs mixing rock and blues very effectively
  

There are many, many other fine examples. These styles may be a far cry from what he’s familiar with but if he’s interested in bass they will grow on him.
Other suggestions?
David

Thanks David,
"if you can stand him listening to Sabbath"!!! I grew up listening to the likes of Sabbath, Uriah Heap, Led Zep amongst others so he has been a welcome visitor to my collection (cd only though, not the LP's yet!).
Don't forget Stanley Clarke, a bit of Mark King (early Level 42 though), John Entwistle etc etc.

Or Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers who is also a virtuoso player. He and his bother first learnt brass before moving onto other instruments. His brother still plays clarinet (I think) on some of the bands earlier records.

Ryan

that should be "brother" oops

Ryan

Mark King out of Level 42's not bad either; bet you can't play the bassline to "Lessons in love" - he couldn't repeat it either after the first take (apparently)

I have to admit that "Lessons in Love" doesn't jump to my mind, I'll have to go back and see if I have that in my collection.
I'll keep you posted (if I have any fingertips left!).
David

Royleblue,

My 12 year old son started playing the drums 20 months ago. He started with a tutor, which I would recommend as a place to start with any musical instrument. Once he became profficient enough the tutor recommended he take the http://www.rockschool.co.uk/rsl/index.aspx exams. With these exams they play along to recorded tracks at the appropriate level. Check out the web site

Dom, I had to purchase and download that tune, was not in my collection.
Musically and technically it is not that difficult on bass. The arpeggios follow a very predictable pattern and the vast majority of the tune is 8th notes, twice repeating each note of the ascending arpeggio.
I can say that the most remarkable thing about that bass line is the incredible precision throughout. I first heard it on my (crap) computer speakers and thought it had been sequenced with a good patch on a synthesizer. I don’t believe that is the case.
So, yes I can play the notes to it quite easily. But it would be VERY difficult for me or most other players to hold that groove so tightly THROUGHOUT the entire song, especially in a live situation.
If I were to record it on my ProTools system and had a tempo map appropriately set I could spend hours on my bass line using what is called “elastic time” and get it to sound much like that, though that would be cheating! And I know that the equipment used to record that song had no ability to quantize audio like that. Which is why I first thought it was sequenced!
Anyway, thanks for the challenge, I downloaded Level 42’s Level Best and have been enjoying the trip down 1980s memory lane!
And my bass-playing hat is off to Mark King, a master of his instrument.
David

David - can you play all the notes using just your thumb rather than multiple fingers or a plectrum? THAT'S the test!

I'm a totally useless bass player; when I was just-OK the dodgy student band I was in split up; now I keep trying to get back into it but totally suck and have RSI in both wrists due to typing Will get there one day maybe - but doubt I'll ever be able to play "Lessons in love"

I think Mark King is a drummer. That's not bass in my book.

Just caught up with this thread. It's all very interesting. I too have played bass for 37 years (gulp). My step son started playing about a year ago and has got really good.

As he is into heavy rock, and Goth stuff I got him an Epiphone T Bird bass, suits his style, shame about the neck dive!

I got him learning from bass tabs at first at the same time I was teaching him scales and how to keep the rhythm tight in the pocket. He is now working out his bass lines by listening rather than the tabs.

I have always encouraged my children to listen to music and play an instrument if they want but never ever forced them into lessons or any of that stuff.

I really don’t think it’s any problem to start leaning on bass rather than six string. It’s a different instrument and a different mind set. In fact I would have thought that after playing guitar and then progressing ( ) to bass might be a hindrance rather that help.

PS: I’ve played bass for most of my life and what speakers do I use? Kans!

quote:

Originally posted by bob atherton:
I’ve played bass for most of my life and what speakers do I use? Kans!

Blimey, they must be easy to lift into the van, but don't you find the Ampeg SVT wobbles on top a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockingdoc:

quote:

Originally posted by bob atherton:
I’ve played bass for most of my life and what speakers do I use? Kans!

Blimey, they must be easy to lift into the van, but don't you find the Ampeg SVT wobbles on top a bit.

LOL very good...!