UnitiServe-SSD Vs HDX-SSD
Posted by: SC on 06 May 2010
OK, well I may as well kick this off...!
Firstly, CONGRATULATIONS Naim on the 2 new products!
From description, they appear fantastic in many ways, and I have a feeling the 'Serve is going to be a real hit.....
So, with the SSD aspect and now ALAC support (for Serve anyway, not sure about HDX ?) I finally have 2 DA products in front of me that I'm seriously tempted by....
So, how to choose ??
The 'Serve is £2250 against the HDX-SSD £4595, which obviously is a large difference....The Serve will need the £2k nDAC, where as the HDX strictly speaking will not (although of course many argue it's really a prerequisite)....You loose the touchscreen (which personally I like) and of course the analogue stage with the 'Serve....
Anything else ??
Steve.
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by SC
Actually, a HiCap sitting next to the Serve would look a nice pair, though I guess brawn & brain separation would be advised....
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Eloise
But when will Naim produce a pure streamer ... I don't want the ripping functions!!!
Sorry but I thought someone should ask!!
Eloise who will no go away and hide!!
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by Aleg:
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
quote:
Originally posted by SC:
Eloise - It's more of a cut down HDX I think...
Naim now have their own UPnP software, I'm reading...
You're right - I reread the website and definately says Based on the HDX!
I guess it has to have external PSU as the box is too small otherwise - but would a bigger box with internal PSU have been better? Or maybe will be a version of the NAPSC2 to power it later.
The upgrade options state that PSU upgrade with Flatcap XS is possible for UnitiServe (although the brochure only talks about adding a DAC).
If you hover over the Flatcap XS "option" it does say this is "powersupply for the NAC152XS pre-amplifier suggested above".
I assume there is no alternative PSU for the actual UnitiServe
Eloise
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by David Dever
quote:
Originally posted by SC:
I'm reading there's a new - Naim written - UPnP piece of software to go along with the new UnitiServes.......
I'm presuming this will work with a HDX based system ? And bring ALAC support to the HDX..??
Both already present on HDX.
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by David Dever
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
But when will Naim produce a pure streamer ... I don't want the ripping functions!!!
Sorry but I thought someone should ask!!
Eloise who will no go away and hide!!
A pure streamer would be missing the point here–you still need good rips and metadata, and a good server, to make use of a pure streamer.
Strip the storage from the UnitiServe as the SSD variant does, and you've got complete control over the whole process.
I think the UnitiServe-SSD will probably become a go-to product....
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
But when will Naim produce a pure streamer ... I don't want the ripping functions!!!
Sorry but I thought someone should ask!!
Eloise who will no go away and hide!!
A pure streamer would be missing the point here–you still need good rips and metadata, and a good server, to make use of a pure streamer.
Strip the storage from the UnitiServe as the SSD variant does, and you've got complete control over the whole process.
I think the UnitiServe-SSD will probably become a go-to product....
Hey - that was meant as a joke!! Okay so it probably wasn't very funny.
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by John R.
I would like to know how the Uniti Serve will compare to the HDX with the new PCI card and increased RAM when hooked up to the Naim DAC! Assuming that the larger case of the HDX, the touch screen, the inbuilt DAC and analog output stage make the HDX pretty expensive I hope that sound quality wise the Uniti Serve without all these things will sound as good through its S/PDIF as the newest version of the HDX. Still I think that this little Uniti Serve is pricey for what it offers - it has to prove its VFM since for its price one can get a nice Apple laptop and a state of the art asyncronous USB to S/PDIF converter as a server...
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by John R.:
it has to prove its VFM since for its price one can get a nice Apple laptop and a state of the art asyncronous USB to S/PDIF converter as a server...
If you are going to use it only in that fashion why even bother?
Simply use the "state of the art converter" directly into the Naim DAC which you will need anyway. Cut out the middle man/box.
If you dont want a computer near your hifi, which the unitiserve basically is, run a long USB from the computer that must be somewhere in the mix, to the converter, then 1 meter toslink into the DAC.
It is superfluous for me at least, and many others i imagine.
Does anyone know what the "media player" looks like for this on the desktop client. This is more important to me than most other features. If anything like the HDX or Linn "players" i think I will pass.
But if Naim were to develop a nice converter (read external sound card), i would seriously be interested in that.
Dont get me wrong, I am sure this is a capable bit of kit. If used in a naim net install or something. I am sure there will be many interested.
But I am guessing those clamoring for a "streamer" will not be buying this. Sorry streamer peeps! You will have to wait.
-patrick
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by goldfinch
quote:
Originally posted by John R.:
I would like to know how the Uniti Serve will compare to the HDX with the new PCI card and increased RAM when hooked up to the Naim DAC! Assuming that the larger case of the HDX, the touch screen, the inbuilt DAC and analog output stage make the HDX pretty expensive I hope that sound quality wise the Uniti Serve without all these things will sound as good through its S/PDIF as the newest version of the HDX. Still I think that this little Uniti Serve is pricey for what it offers - it has to prove its VFM since for its price one can get a nice Apple laptop and a state of the art asyncronous USB to S/PDIF converter as a server...
I expect equal digital output performance between HDX and UServe, they seems to be only featured-differentiated,
The new PCI in the HDX could be also present in the U-Serve, in fact, they could use the same itx motherboard with a pci socket. At its price point, I wouldn't buy a UnityServe for the Naim DAC if this offer less performance than an HDX as a transport!
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by gary1 (US)
The question here really comes down to the following:
Will the Unitiserve perform as an equivalent source as the HDX when used strictly as digital out. For this I'm making the assumption that the NDAC is being used on both (+/-psu)?
For example the HDX/NS01 are supposed to be equivalent when replay is done through the dig out. I'm ignoring analogue out here for the discussion. So if you don't need the Touch Screen you can have equivalent playback for less money.
Does this hold true for the same comparison with the Unitiserve and are the ripping bits producing an equivalent rip.
I've also heard that rips played back from the HDX in some people's opinions are better than the same rips stored and played back from a separate attached NAS device.
I'm sure opinions will differ.
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
.....
It is superfluous for me at least, and many others i imagine.
Does anyone know what the "media player" looks like for this on the desktop client. This is more important to me than most other features. If anything like the HDX or Linn "players" i think I will pass.
But if Naim were to develop a nice converter (read external sound card), i would seriously be interested in that.
Dont get me wrong, I am sure this is a capable bit of kit. If used in a naim net install or something. I am sure there will be many interested.
But I am guessing those clamoring for a "streamer" will not be buying this. Sorry streamer peeps! You will have to wait.
-patrick
Patrick
I'm one of those waiting for a Naim streamer/mediaplayer, and I'm confused by your remarks.
I cannot see what is missing from this device to fulfill my wishes except we cannot know it SQ yet.
It can:
- play from network shares,
- play most of the modern codecs,
- play all (176.4?) HiRes sample frequencies,
- manage the music with all required meta data,
- it can be controled from iPod, PC/Mac, etc.
For me it is the slimmed down HDX I was looking for, the ripping engine is nice, though not necessary for me. I'm just curious about sound quality of course.
It also acts as a UPnP media server which I don't need to use (and certainly won't).
What is it for you that you are missing or that is superfluous in this machine?
Are you only worried about how the user interface of the control point looks like on the PC or iPod?
I am truly confused.
-
aleg
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by pcstockton
Aleg,
No reason to be confused. When I said "streamer" i intended to say "PURE streamer". Most have been asking for a streamer only. No drives, no ripping software/hardware etc.... For what it's worth i am NOT one of those people. I am happy with my source and have no need for any kind of streamer. (I dont live in a 7,000 sq ft house. The longest SUB cable I would need in order to place my PC as far away from my kit as possible is about 10 meters.)
I wasn't speaking directly to anyone in particular. The general sentiment is a streamer ONLY. NO DAC, No drives, no nothing. Ethernet in and digital out.
I agree this actual product will be cool. Maybe in a few years I will look into one.
And yes it sounds perfect for you.
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
...
NO DAC, No drives, no nothing. Ethernet in and digital out.
...
And it is just that:
It has no DAC
It has in the SSD-version no drives (just the SSD for software)
It has ethernet in
It has only digital out
OK, it has the ripping engine, but that is its only 'flaw'
(besides also being geared towards UPnP
)
I'm very curious how it compares soundwise to the HDX, but many have expressed that curiosity.
We'll have to wait and see (and listen).
-
aleg
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by JYOW
Is this Unitiserve thing imminent? After acquiring the Naim DAC, I decided to hold off re-acquiring my Transporter and bought a Squeezebox Touch for as an interim solution for a year or so, until Naim has a sensible streamer price and configuration wise.
Any idea what price range this is and what client support it has this time (e.g. close to Uniti or HDX, or another new platform?)
As a matter of fact, I have yet been properly shown a demo of the client/server platform of the HDX by my dealer. The local dealer is just not interested/capable of showing this properly. I doubt if they have sold more than half a dozen of those boxes. And I don’t blame them, these things have long learning curves.
My humble opinion is the best thing Naim can do for themselves is to support the Slim Server platform, people will come in droves. There are quite a few Naimees over there hanging on to their Transporters which is awesome but most likely not to have any future development plan.
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by AllenB:
Whilst mulling this over, four key areas for me:-
1) Are the ripping engines identical?
quote:
2) Are the BNC digital outputs identical? Is the PCI card update for HDX a result of development of the Serve, is this same design incorporated into the Serve from the get go?
Allen in the press release on the new HDX-SSD it says
quote:
a new Naim designed low-profile PCI audio card. This new card is designed for a single stereo output is further optimised and consumes less current than the one it replaces. This delivers a twofold opportunity for a sound quality improvement. These improvements are also heard on the digital output.
From this I get the impression the PCI-card is specifically for the analogue stereo output and that it uses less current also rubs off on the digital out which (as I maybe wrongly read it) isn't part of this PCI-card.
quote:
4) As this unit does rips, is the software essentially the same as the HDX, which includes the DTC and remote apps?
So long as this Serve is a match for the HDX, but giving us what many wanted, which is no DAC, no spinning drives, no output stages, then my interest will be perked. Somehow, I still feel there will be a differential between this and the HDX/SSD otherwise why bother with the latter? The SSD Serve plus nDAC comes out slightly less than a HDX/SSD price-wise, and we all know the nDAC is miles ahead of the internal DAC of the HDX. Why buy a HDX/SSD if this is so?
Allen
The specs and brochure of the UnitiServe say it also has the DTC.
-
aleg
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by goldfinch
quote:
From this I get the impression the PCI-card is specifically for the analogue stereo output and that it uses less current also rubs off on the digital out which (as I maybe wrongly read it) isn't part of this PCI-card.
This is from a HDX review from HifiPlus:
"The computer-side parts are effectively an off-the-shelf PC (specifically a Mini-ITX design sporting a 1.5GHz Via C7 CPU), a pair of 400GB hard disk drives, a CD-ROM drive and quiet computer power supply. That’s met by Naim’s own custom-made PCI board; this combines PCI bridge, audio controller and high-precision clock, each with its own power supply regulation. This necessitated Naim writing its own driver software for the device, to make sure the transfer of data from the hard disk to the custom PCI board is performed as smoothly (and with as little processor action) as possible.
Once we leave the computer side, the HDX begins to look more Naim-y under the skin. There’s a four-layer custom audio-board, which drives both analogue (DIN and phono) and digital (toslink and coaxial S/PDIF) outputs and features a Burr Brown PCM1791A digital to analogue converter chip. Once again, high-quality clocks and plenty of power supply isolation are a common factor, and the analogue board uses a microcontroller that lies in slumber when music is playing on only wakes when accessing new tracks."
According to this the PCI card is an audio device while both the digital outputs and analogue stages are in a separate audio board benefitting from isolated power regulation.
This new improved pci may play the same function, now in low-profile flavour, just to put it inside the UnitiServe case,
The main difference could be in the power regulation, if the digital output is integrated in the Serve low profile pci card then theoritacally HDX digital output would benefit from better isolation in its digital output power supply?
Ok these is all a bit odd, why Naim doesn't use the forum for giving us these kind of technical details?
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by goldfinch:
quote:
From this I get the impression the PCI-card is specifically for the analogue stereo output and that it uses less current also rubs off on the digital out which (as I maybe wrongly read it) isn't part of this PCI-card.
This is from a HDX review from HifiPlus:
"The computer-side parts are effectively an off-the-shelf PC (specifically a Mini-ITX design sporting a 1.5GHz Via C7 CPU), a pair of 400GB hard disk drives, a CD-ROM drive and quiet computer power supply. That’s met by Naim’s own custom-made PCI board; this combines PCI bridge, audio controller and high-precision clock, each with its own power supply regulation. This necessitated Naim writing its own driver software for the device, to make sure the transfer of data from the hard disk to the custom PCI board is performed as smoothly (and with as little processor action) as possible.
Once we leave the computer side, the HDX begins to look more Naim-y under the skin. There’s a four-layer custom audio-board, which drives both analogue (DIN and phono) and digital (toslink and coaxial S/PDIF) outputs and features a Burr Brown PCM1791A digital to analogue converter chip. Once again, high-quality clocks and plenty of power supply isolation are a common factor, and the analogue board uses a microcontroller that lies in slumber when music is playing on only wakes when accessing new tracks."
According to this the PCI card is an audio device while both the digital outputs and analogue stages are in a separate audio board benefitting from isolated power regulation.
This new improved pci may play the same function, now in low-profile flavour, just to put it inside the UnitiServe case,
The main difference could be in the power regulation, if the digital output is integrated in the Serve low profile pci card then theoritacally HDX digital output would benefit from better isolation in its digital output power supply?
Ok these is all a bit odd, why Naim doesn't use the forum for giving us these kind of technical details?
Goldfinch
The UnitiServe doesn't have analogue output, so maybe that means the UnitiServe does use actualy a different PCI-card or at least one which is used differently.
The stated improvement in current consumption and sound effects for the analogue stereo part, and its brush off on the digital part, may therefore not be relevant for the UnitiServe which doesn't have or doesn't use this section?
Or maybe it does because they may use the same component/construction on the digital card of the UnitiServe?
It would indeed be nice to have somebody from Naim R&D give some answers to these technical questions.
-
aleg
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by SC
JYOW - If you read the 1st post on the 1st page of this thread, the prices were mentioned.....
UnitiServe £2000
UnitiServe-SSD £2250
HDX-SSD £4595
Posted on: 07 May 2010 by T38.45
folks,
can the HDX-SSD act as a Linn DS means as a "Upnp client" streaming from an Upnp server (Qnap etc)?
Thx
Ralf
Posted on: 07 May 2010 by pcstockton
yes
Posted on: 07 May 2010 by lawoftrust
Ralf,
according to what has been published it should be able to do that but why would you want to have the HDX-SSD if you use your Naim Dac, apart from having a display that you will not use very often when applying the iPhone App? All under the assumption that the digital outs of HDX-SSD and Unityserve-SSD are similar in sound quality.
Georg
Posted on: 07 May 2010 by goldfinch
Aleg,
This is very confusing and we are only guessing but I don't think the pci card does any analogue job. It doesn't in the HDX (which has an specific audio board for that purpose) and I don't see why it should be now different in the HDX-SSD. Audio PCI cards are usually an audio device which transforms bits in digital audio signal. They communicate with the rest of the computer and convert/process data (tracks) in a digital audio signal.
In the case of the HDX, its digital output is not physically located in the pci card, which may be good for achieving better isolation and better power regulation than when the spdif output is in the PCI device and it gets current directly from the motherboard (through the PCI socket itself).
Posted on: 07 May 2010 by goldfinch
quote:
Originally posted by lawoftrust:
Ralf,
All under the assumption that the digital outs of HDX-SSD and Unityserve-SSD are similar in sound quality.
Georg
I would like Naim to clarify this, but I am afraid Naim want us to think the HDX-SSD is a superior transport to the Uniti-Serve, since their different suggested partners at the website.
Posted on: 07 May 2010 by SC
Goldfinch,
I can't link here, but have a read of the news item currently on the WhatHiFi website....
There's a paragraph concerning the new PCI card found in the new HDX, which appears to be an official quote:
'This new card, designed for a single stereo output, is further optimised and consumes less current than the one it replaces. This delivers a twofold opportunity for a sound quality improvement.
These improvements are also heard on the digital output.'
Posted on: 07 May 2010 by goldfinch
I think "designed for a single stereo output" doesn't imply that the PCI card has the analogue output, maybe the previous pci card was designed for more than an output, just as the pro-audio pci cards such as those from Lynx and RME. I think PCI specs are 3.3 or 5v but since they developed its own bridge they could use even less current,
but the question remains, is this pci card the same they use in the Serve?
