Why hard disc?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve S1:

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Originally posted by Fender:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Trotz:
Another advantage of the Laptop/Macbook->DAC approach is the ability to carry your entire music collection with you wherever you go

Michael

And lose it!!!

Or, have a back-up copy of your collection on and off site, and be in a better recovery situation than you were with just the discs.

Steve

Steve.

Absolutely but how many home PC/laptop users regularly back up like they should? And that must mean daily to preserve regularly downloaded music.

The fact is that without this assurance a PC/laptop music collection will be at considerably greater risk through hard disk failure, loss of device or theft. Short of - lord forbid - burgulary or fire a vinyl or CD collection is infinately more secure in my opinion.

Regards,

Lindsay

The backing up of files on an HD will be an indicator of the value anyone puts on the music downloaded, and if the person concerned does care, then the resultant security of backing up probably gives greater safety than owning one set of CDs ...

George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
The backing up of files on an HD will be an indicator of the value anyone puts on the music downloaded, and if the person concerned does care, then the resultant security of backing up probably gives greater safety than owning one set of CDs ...

George

George - I fully accept there is no one way here but having been a vinyl/CD user for 35 years (albeit the vinyl is now moth-balled) I've never once had to address the security issues we're discussing here. In fact nothing could really be that much easier than now - I either go on line to any number of providers and have CDs sent to me or sometimes I indulge myself in record stores, the CDs come almost immediately by 1st class post (recognising not as instant as download), I don't have to print the artwork etc, just play it, file it away on the rack.

Now I recognise that in say 10 years time I'll probably be using some form of PC/Server based system but notwithstanding my iPOD which I use when away on business etc right now the HDX (brilliant that it is) doesn't go near my storage requirement (nearly 3,000 CDs) so the alternative is some form of streaming off my iMAC into a DAC and then ensuring back ups.

Why bother when my CDP is as good as it is?

But the great thing is we can all take our choice.

Lindsay

quote:

Originally posted by Fender:

Absolutely but how many home PC/laptop users regularly back up like they should? And that must mean daily to preserve regularly downloaded music.

The fact is that without this assurance a PC/laptop music collection will be at considerably greater risk through hard disk failure, loss of device or theft. Short of - lord forbid - burgulary or fire a vinyl or CD collection is infinately more secure in my opinion.

Regards,

Lindsay

Hi Lindsay,

Whether people do back up is not a limitation of the technology. I merely pointed out that the technology actually offers more opportunity for security than merely storing media. It can't do more....the rest is up to you.

Anyway, you are happy with your CDs and will be until you hear a computer audio solution beat it. Then I suspect, the security issue will fly out of the window.

Best regards,

Steve

quote:

I merely pointed out that the technology actually offers more opportunity for security than merely storing media

Hi Steve

Did you leave a DOES NOT out of your sentence

One of the problems I have with HD is that they can be written to - there will be malicious code that does this (Sony?) sooner or later. CDs have a massive security advantage in that they are read-only.

Of course, when given a choice do both.

At work I always back-up critical data to DVD-R.

This could be overcome by on-line sales being of a licence to play then if you'd bought music and it were lost you could simply download it again - not sure if anybody offers that service as I've never bought downloaded music.

For me, it is not computer audio per-se that doesn't suit, it is some of the underlying technology currently used that I think needs to mature. None of these concerns are sound quality related. I've only really heard MacBook/SuperNait which I thought was mediocre compared with CDX2/SuperNait, an AVI/iPod systems which was plain awful and standard iPods, which I think are OK for what they do (I prefer a good quality Walkman). I'm sure there are better systems out there that would impress me.

I shall continue to wait for a while. I've never been an early adopter. I'm sure I'll eventually hear computer audio from Naim, Linn or Rega that impresses and I'll invest. The hi-res option is the most interesting aspect to me.

ATB Rotf

Hi ROTF,

I'm surprised given your technical leanings, but each to his own.

I have a better quality digital source than I had before, and that's the bottom line for me. Malicious code and other scare stuff is just noise that I don't spend my time worrying about.

As for the SN, I'd feel the same as you if that was all I'd heard. There are much better DACs - simple as that.

It's the idea that ripping your CDs suddenly presents major security issues that I just don't get. You have more opportunity if you are so inclined, to have copies of your collection as well as the discs. What am I missing there?

Regards,

Steve

I've been in the IT industry for over 20 years and have seen massive change/innovation over that time. With each new advance, there are always risks of malicious exploitation, but overall I think the benefits outway the risks.

As we increasingly move away from 'physical' media towards internet downloads my biggest concern is the potential 'dumbing down' of the content to support the iPod generation who think a 128kbit MP3 is quality. I'm not worried about the storage media, rather the potential for the industy to stop supporting higher quality sources. I want to see more 24bit, 96kHz uncompressed content, not less.

quote:

It's the idea that ripping your CDs suddenly presents major security issues that I just don't get.

Hi Steve

You're right. If you a rip a CD then you still have the CD so that's fine in security terms.

I was referring to where you don't have the CD (or vinyl) - i.e. with a music download - I would not be happy with HD being my only music storage.

I will investigate the Linn Majik DS at some stage in the future, but for now funds need to recover from buying the LP12

All that and League One looms too - if Jim doesn't sort things out.

ATB Rotf

Then burn the files to CDR with your computer. I would do that, even two discs of the same saved, downloaded file ...

At the moment there is no other way with such security.

The only Music files I would store on an HD which are not from my library of original commercially issued CDs would the fairly large number of private recordings I have. Already I have lost most in their compact cassette medium, and the rescued recordings exist on CDRs now. Nothing lasts forever, and so I would be keeping several copies of these unique recordings for safety in any case, whether they were on an HD or not,

George

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:


All that and League One looms too - if Jim doesn't sort things out.

ATB Rotf

You'll be in good company. Palace are heading there too.

Take your point about downloads - but they would have to be lossless to interest me. I'll buy discs. The Linn Hi def samples I have are fine sounding - but so are the best CDs. There is little between them IMO. People forget that if all CDs were done as well as they can be - the other formats would have struggled.

It's not the format - it's all in the mastering and production.

Steve

With a raided storage device any downloaded music is very easy to back up and for those that are paranoid, you can always attach an additional storage device and have multiple back-ups of your music-- fairly straight forward.

As far as large CD collections. With an HDX, for example, I believe you can play as you rip--so you could enjoy your music colection while slowly converting to another medium which will allow greater enjoyment of your music IMO since with shuffle modes and music management you could hear all sorts of tracks that probably sit on the shelf and are rarely if ever heard.

Wait until you hear some 24/96 playback, this is where it's at.

Gary,

I've no doubt 24/96 and indeed other hi-res might be brilliant - I've heard SACD and it's very impressive. But will there be a comprehensive catalogue available such that making the change for a 30 year plus collector will be worthwile?

As far as back ups go it's got to be simple and reliable - the great attraction of red book.

Lindsay

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With a raided storage device any downloaded music is very easy to back up and for those that are paranoid

Hi Gary

Please beware that RAID doesn't give you a secure back-up. If one RAID disk picks up corruption then it'll just copy it to the other disks that make up the array. So you'll have multiple corrupt copies - RAID is not a substitute for a back-up - it does protect you against failed disks though. You really need a back-up regime as well. IMHO back-ups should be write once, read many devices like CD-Rs.

I still prefer solid-state storage to HDs.

ATB Rotf

BTW Personally, I'd never use shuffle mode - Grey would die and SF Sorrow marry her afterwards and he'd be born at the end - far too confusing for me. I once put the Cunning Little Vixen on an iPod Shuffle and the opera didn't make any sense at all

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Originally posted by Fender:
But will there be a comprehensive catalogue available such that making the change for a 30 year plus collector will be worthwile?

Absolutely YES!! Just give it a moment.

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Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by Fender:
But will there be a comprehensive catalogue available such that making the change for a 30 year plus collector will be worthwile?

Absolutely YES!! Just give it a moment.

We'll see!!

Why not? The debate over physical ownership of the material is only just starting. I can see a time when all the worlds music is available online on a 'pay as you go' basis.

This is probably what the record companies want.

I shall be hanging onto my CD issues, and with careful use and HD systems, no doubt they will outlast me. I am not even faintly interested in "Hi-res" reissues, and would only buy a recording that I did not already have in the new standard ...

Hi-res maybe a step forward in terms of sonics, but nothing will change the fact that the recording is invariably the servant of the music making, and I have not one single recording where the music making is spoiled by the existing CD standard.

I have no intention of going towards the notion of pay as you listen, and dumping my existing collection of music on CD, fairly paid for over a long period ...

ATB from George

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Originally posted by GFFJ:

I have no intention of going towards the notion of pay as you listen, and dumping my existing collection of music on CD, fairly paid for over a long period ...

ATB from George

I dont think those two options are mutually exclusive.

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Originally posted by munch:
The best thing about it for me is all the racks can go and i can store all my cds away.
Munch

Amen. 2000+ CDs to the boxes!!!

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Originally posted by Fender:

We'll see!!

You can see it now. Go check out Nine Inch Nails or Buckethead, to name two artists.

They are selling/giving 24/96 FLAC downloads of their new albums.

Imagine a future where there are no "real" record companies, and you buy DIRECTLY from the artist. With ALL proceeds going to the creator of the work.

I think there will increasingly be more options, whether good or bad is a different debate. Like you GFFJ, I'm attached to my current CD collection, I just choose to access them in a more convenient way. I do remain open to newer standards - I've just started to listen to Claire Martin in 24bit/96kHz and am absolutely blown away, the hi-res format just allows her talent to shine through. Whether the same would be true on a 16bit/44.1kHz CD is not really the question as music definately comes first, but hi-res allows us to get closer to the original.

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Imagine a future where there are no "real" record companies, and you buy DIRECTLY from the artist. With ALL proceeds going to the creator of the work.

Cut out the middle man... perhaps this is where we are heading.

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Originally posted by DaveBk:

quote:

Imagine a future where there are no "real" record companies, and you buy DIRECTLY from the artist. With ALL proceeds going to the creator of the work.

Cut out the middle man... perhaps this is where we are heading.

Yes you can buy HMHB CDs direct from Geoff
You can buy Martha Johnson CDs direct
You can buy Karine Polwart's CDs direct
You can buy Shirley Collins books and CDs direct
and so on ...

Kate Rusby - fantastic singer and wonderful person

If you write to these artists they reply too.

quote:

Originally posted by thesherrif:
You forgot to mention the massive increase in the quality of the music


And the fact that this massive increase in quality is achieved at a fraction of the price of a cd player struggling to attain the same loft heights.

I can see that ruffling a few feathers. I know at least one Senior Member who prefers the idea of sorting through his (vast) collection of CD's and vinyl, rather then just clicking a mouse. I can understand that. Musical enjoyment is very personal.

Years ago, I was the same. I just loved lifting out an album and reading the liner notes before deciding what to play. Nowadays I just click the mouse.

But you know, I am in awe that I have my complete music library on a small laptop computer. It is also backed up onto a tiny external hard drive. Marvellous! I love technology.

The important thing is to enjoy it through whatever kit you have.

Richard