LP12 next steps
Posted by: steve barnard on 08 November 2003
Posted on: 08 November 2003 by J.N.
Hi Steve
The bearing is the heart of the machine.
It must have done a few miles if it dates from the mid 80's?
A Cirkus upgrade will give you a brand new bearing, and clean up the sound considerably.
Oldish LP12's have that bass bloom, which although attractive in a way; masks detail throughout the frequency range.
An Armageddon should come next in my opinion.
The bearing is the heart of the machine.
It must have done a few miles if it dates from the mid 80's?
A Cirkus upgrade will give you a brand new bearing, and clean up the sound considerably.
Oldish LP12's have that bass bloom, which although attractive in a way; masks detail throughout the frequency range.
An Armageddon should come next in my opinion.
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by kan man
I agree totally with JN. Interesting that you list the ARO as an option. It might help you to try and hear a fully Linned LP12 and a fully Naimed LP12 to establish which path is best suited to you before you spend any money. I think that a circus is a no brainer in either case but there is a significant camp who like the old bearing when the TT is on Mana supports so you could also consider this.
Regards
Steve
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by willem
Hi Steve,
I too think you should get the Circus first, whatever your further plans might be. The next step should be ARO (and then Armageddon) if you want to go follow the Naim route or Lingo in case you want to follow the Linn route.
Have fun,
Willem
I too think you should get the Circus first, whatever your further plans might be. The next step should be ARO (and then Armageddon) if you want to go follow the Naim route or Lingo in case you want to follow the Linn route.
Have fun,
Willem
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by Ron Toolsie
quote:
there is a significant camp who like the old bearing when the TT is on Mana supports so you could also consider this.
I got my LP12 back this morning (at 6:45 a.m.)from my dealer who had done the Cirkus upgrade. It is now sitting on a 2-tier (?Reference) Mana wall shelf. Note that the Prefix was also updated to latest spec at the same time so I cannot be absolutely sure what the Cirkus-only change does-but suffice it to say the LP12 is now an altogether different beast. I infer that the Prefix upgrade retains much of its previous signature so I attribute a large part of the fundamental differences to the Cirkus.
The first very obvious change is the tonal balance is far more extended at either end of the spectrum. The bass not only gains welcome extension but starts on stops with alacrity and is fully in tune. Before the Cirkus it was warmer, lacking in texture and definitely dragging its toes. The midrange and upper treble has become far, far more detailed with a delicious dose of microdynamics that are greatly aided by a subjectively blacker and quieter background-here the Prefix update may come into play;there was always something going on in the background that was not related to either music or surface noise before-sputtering, radio breakthrough etc. Also the imaging-what the DBLs offer anyway- is anchored and seeming more phase-coherent and less effected by moving off axis. In retrospect I think the Aro without the Cirkus bearing is just too polite, rounded and maybe a tad overcontrolled...but with the Cirkus there seems to be very little lacking. And the best part of this is that I am hearing all these through a loaner NAC102 (albeit Supercapped and NAPSCed)while my 52 is off for service. I can only imagine what the LP12/Cirkus will show when the 52 returns next week.
Oh, the Prefix is being used with a dedicated Supercap. I would say the Cirkus bearing adds very similar qualities as does using a dedicated Supercap on the Prefix as compared to powering it off the 52s feed. Less warm, less rounded, but so very much of 'there' is there.
I cannot imagine anybody preferring the older bearing subjectively over the Cirkus. Recommended!
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by kan man
James
The old bearing is (tonally) less CD like in character - it has a warm fuzzy stereotypically 'analogue' sound that some like and I have to agree that it is pleasant to listen to but it is also very 'coloured' and inaccurate. The Cirkus makes the deck tonally more similar to CD without making it sound like CD (if that makes any sense). Basically, much more detail is resolved and some false, bloaty bass is peeled away. This could seem alarming if you are wedded to the colouration of the old bearing but very few who have been Cirkussed would go back...
Ron - I can't imagine it either but each to their own.
Regards
Steve
The old bearing is (tonally) less CD like in character - it has a warm fuzzy stereotypically 'analogue' sound that some like and I have to agree that it is pleasant to listen to but it is also very 'coloured' and inaccurate. The Cirkus makes the deck tonally more similar to CD without making it sound like CD (if that makes any sense). Basically, much more detail is resolved and some false, bloaty bass is peeled away. This could seem alarming if you are wedded to the colouration of the old bearing but very few who have been Cirkussed would go back...
Ron - I can't imagine it either but each to their own.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by Bob Edwards
Ron--
I do. I must be deaf...
Best,
Bob
I do. I must be deaf...
Best,
Bob
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by Phil Barry
To repeat something I picked up I know not where: anybody who replaced a bad bearing with a Cirkus is probably going to love the Cirkus.
My bearing was OK, the Cirkus was not a great upgrade. But I guess I wasn't sensitive enough to the differences to want to go back.
Here's my advice: if the arm and table bearings aren't good, replace them (I think that means a new arm, if the arm bearings are bad...). If the table bearing is bad, see what a new copy of the old bearing does before going to the Cirkus. And then see if you can compare good old bearing to good Cirkus.
If the bearings are good and you're happy with the sound, a Lingo is probably a good move.
If the bearings are good, but you want more from the 'table, listen to an Aro, an Ekos II, and/or a P9.
Regards.
Phil
My bearing was OK, the Cirkus was not a great upgrade. But I guess I wasn't sensitive enough to the differences to want to go back.
Here's my advice: if the arm and table bearings aren't good, replace them (I think that means a new arm, if the arm bearings are bad...). If the table bearing is bad, see what a new copy of the old bearing does before going to the Cirkus. And then see if you can compare good old bearing to good Cirkus.
If the bearings are good and you're happy with the sound, a Lingo is probably a good move.
If the bearings are good, but you want more from the 'table, listen to an Aro, an Ekos II, and/or a P9.
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by Martin Payne
The first time I heard a Cirkus'd deck (with Lingo), I was not sure if I preferred the old version. It seemed to have lost a little of it's fun.
I'm very happy with my Cirkus'd deck, it was a major upgrade in my system. Perhaps my old bearing was shot?
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
I'm very happy with my Cirkus'd deck, it was a major upgrade in my system. Perhaps my old bearing was shot?
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by MichaelC
Another vote for the Cirkus - it evens out the tonal balance (the bass bloom?) AND allows the LP12 to retrieve far more information. It still has the analogue characyer - well certianly in comparison to my Ikemi.
The Cirkus shoud be the first step in my opinion.
Secondly, sort out the ps - try out if at all possible a comparison between the Lingo and Armageddon. Either route will enhance the LP12's performance.
Cheers
Mike
The Cirkus shoud be the first step in my opinion.
Secondly, sort out the ps - try out if at all possible a comparison between the Lingo and Armageddon. Either route will enhance the LP12's performance.
Cheers
Mike
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by bdnyc
While some of the most experienced and thoughtful Forum members have offered up their insights, I would love to open up the debate for a bit more detailed analysis. As the introduction of a Cirkus upgrade always requires the Linn in question to be totally redone, I am somewhat skeptical that precise auditions could be easily managed. Thus, either you are listening to two tables, which may or may not have different sonic signatures, and possibly, meaningful differences in their age, associated hardware, etc., or you are forced to rely on a long term memory of one table, with some inevitable delay between the two set ups. (Long term users with a stable system of sufficient resolution would be one great resource here, although that is clearly a different sort of resource than those who have heard closely controlled A/B demos.)
Hence I am curious what experiences people have used to form their opinions?
I know in my case that I did hear a few before and after Cirkus installations when I worked at a dealer known for their careful and expert LP work, but it often was not the only work being performed for the client, thus making exact comparisons difficult.
I will use a roundabout example to illustrate how difficult some of this gets, and indirectly comment on the post that suggests that since the upgrade is retrofittable, it would be theoretically easy to hear before and after samples, and potentially go back to the older bearing if one preferred it. Back when lots of users were considering power supply upgrades for their Linn's, it was very rare to actually have an exact demo available, even though we tried. Usually, we tried to give the client a sense of the Naim approach vs. the Linn approach, and see what direction they wanted to go in. Thus, I think I only really heard one fair test of a Lingo vs. an Armegeddon in the entire time I have been listening to Linn and Naim,( now going on 15 years) on a similar enough table to be able to reasonably identify which role the P/S had in the overall performance of the table/ arm /cartridge demos. This was done with two Linn's with ARO's on them. We swapped the armtubes from one table to the other, and the only obvious difference in the tables were thus the power supplies. There were massive differences between the two power supplies, but I would guess very few customers ever heard these in precise demos. Given another ten years of the digital waves crashing on the shore, I would suspect it is even harder today.
My feeling at the time the Cirkus was being introduced and heavily marketed, was to assume, in concert with Bob, that the Cirkus was not inevitably a step forward, at least given a Naimed LP 12, but perhaps a step forward in an all Linn setup. As I felt, and feel, that the Aro and the Armegeddon both remove some of the Linn's thickness, at least relative to the Linn arm and Lingo P/S, I never felt it was benificial enough to address in my table. Time marches on, and I am curious what thoughts you folks have on your experiences and on what basis you have formed your opinions. When you add in the fact that an older Linn might need enough work that the Cirkus is an extremely cost effective way to get new parts, it may have been selected my many users for valid reasons that per se, did not come out of specific demonstrations, more so the recommendations of their dealers.
As Ron has a very modern system, with super resolving capabilities, and very full range speakers, it does not suprise me that he prefers the extra insight and transparency he is applauding, and that he does not need his table to add any mid bass weight. What are the experiences of other folks with less full bodied speakers?
Let the games begin,
[This message was edited by bdnyc on MONDAY 10 November 2003 at 04:22.]
Hence I am curious what experiences people have used to form their opinions?
I know in my case that I did hear a few before and after Cirkus installations when I worked at a dealer known for their careful and expert LP work, but it often was not the only work being performed for the client, thus making exact comparisons difficult.
I will use a roundabout example to illustrate how difficult some of this gets, and indirectly comment on the post that suggests that since the upgrade is retrofittable, it would be theoretically easy to hear before and after samples, and potentially go back to the older bearing if one preferred it. Back when lots of users were considering power supply upgrades for their Linn's, it was very rare to actually have an exact demo available, even though we tried. Usually, we tried to give the client a sense of the Naim approach vs. the Linn approach, and see what direction they wanted to go in. Thus, I think I only really heard one fair test of a Lingo vs. an Armegeddon in the entire time I have been listening to Linn and Naim,( now going on 15 years) on a similar enough table to be able to reasonably identify which role the P/S had in the overall performance of the table/ arm /cartridge demos. This was done with two Linn's with ARO's on them. We swapped the armtubes from one table to the other, and the only obvious difference in the tables were thus the power supplies. There were massive differences between the two power supplies, but I would guess very few customers ever heard these in precise demos. Given another ten years of the digital waves crashing on the shore, I would suspect it is even harder today.
My feeling at the time the Cirkus was being introduced and heavily marketed, was to assume, in concert with Bob, that the Cirkus was not inevitably a step forward, at least given a Naimed LP 12, but perhaps a step forward in an all Linn setup. As I felt, and feel, that the Aro and the Armegeddon both remove some of the Linn's thickness, at least relative to the Linn arm and Lingo P/S, I never felt it was benificial enough to address in my table. Time marches on, and I am curious what thoughts you folks have on your experiences and on what basis you have formed your opinions. When you add in the fact that an older Linn might need enough work that the Cirkus is an extremely cost effective way to get new parts, it may have been selected my many users for valid reasons that per se, did not come out of specific demonstrations, more so the recommendations of their dealers.
As Ron has a very modern system, with super resolving capabilities, and very full range speakers, it does not suprise me that he prefers the extra insight and transparency he is applauding, and that he does not need his table to add any mid bass weight. What are the experiences of other folks with less full bodied speakers?
Let the games begin,
[This message was edited by bdnyc on MONDAY 10 November 2003 at 04:22.]
Posted on: 10 November 2003 by David Stewart
My LP12 is pre-cirkus and I'm certainly not aware of any obvious bass-bloom or colouration. With an Ittok and 10x4 it sounds tonally similar to my Hicapped CD3.5
I suspect that any tonal colouration is going to be influenced strongly by the arm, cartridge and support system and won't be down to the bearing alone.
David
I suspect that any tonal colouration is going to be influenced strongly by the arm, cartridge and support system and won't be down to the bearing alone.
David
Posted on: 10 November 2003 by Dev B
quote:
Originally posted by bdnyc:
While some of the most experienced and thoughtful Forum members have offered up their insights, I would love to open up the debate for a bit more detailed analysis.
[This message was edited by bdnyc on MONDAY 10 November 2003 at 04:22.]
Excellent post! I can't talk about the bearing, but I find my LP12 prefers classic Linn cartridges with a warmish and more tuneful signature (Troikas & Karmas work well Dynavectors do not). I think the older bearing would work better in my system too. regards
Posted on: 10 November 2003 by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by bdnyc:
While some of the most experienced and thoughtful Forum members have offered up their insights, I would love to open up the debate for a bit more detailed analysis
To put my earlier post into perspective, I relied on long term memory. My LP12 was always in top order having been regularly serviced (at least every two years) and has been (still is) used on a daily basis. Unless there is something wrong with my hearing, highly unlikely, I can say with a high degree of confidence that the Cirkus upgrade was highly effective - at least in the context of my system of Lingo/Ittock LVIII.
I hope this clarifies matters.
Regards
Mike
Posted on: 11 November 2003 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
IMO, the Cirkus enable you to actually *hear* what the bass is doing, as opposed to getting an impression of what it is attempting to do.
Good upgrade I think. Also, the jump from Valhalla to Lingo - and particularly Lingo 2 - is ridiculously good.
Regards
Mike
On the Yellow Brick Road and happy
Good upgrade I think. Also, the jump from Valhalla to Lingo - and particularly Lingo 2 - is ridiculously good.
Regards
Mike
On the Yellow Brick Road and happy
Posted on: 11 November 2003 by Bob Edwards
BD et al--
I had the chance to hear a large number of LP12s pre and post Cirkus. I've also owned both versions, and have had the chance to hear several otherwise identical table/arm/cart combinations where one LP12 was Cirkused and one was not.
First of all, the difficulties in evaluating what the Cirkus does are obvious to anyone who has worked on an LP12. Anytime you go in the table, the sound changes. And when you replace the very guts of the table, the question of what you're listening to is a real one. Phil makes a very good point about the bearing--if you have an old and/or tired bearing, the Cirkus will be a revelation. Then again, so would a new old-style bearing. Also, most LP12's that get Cirkused (that I saw) were due for a service anyway--and as everyone knows, a complete service by a good dealer can make a surprising improvement.
That said, I think the Cirkus is an unambiguous step forward in terms of clarity--things are just more clear with the Cirkus, especially, as Ron and others have noted, in the bass. The Cirkus also improves on groove noise--something the LP12 is already pretty good at. Bass notes are "cleaned up," and there is a fairly obvious reduction in the warmth of the table that has the effect of making the upper frequencies also sound cleaner.
However, I don't think the Cirkus is an unambiguous improvement. Though the positive elements listed above would seem to indicate otherwise, I find it harder to engage with music played on a Cirkused LP12 relative to a non-Cirkus LP12. This is in context with a Geddon/Aro/Troika/Prefix, and, as BD noted above, the Naimed LP12 seems to benefit less. This makes sense given the Ekos 2 and Lingo's sonic balance, which is tilted to the bass. So installing a Cirkus will have more of an effect with a Linn p/s and arm.
Having had the chance to hear two Geddon/Aro LP12s side by side, one Cirkused and one not, I had to chuckle when I received the volume of Listener where Art decided he liked the non-Cirkus LP12 better. The Cirkused deck offered slightly greater extension and clarity in the bass, with a concomitant apparent increase in resolution throughout the rest of the music range, but the non-Cirkused deck simply played music more effortlessly and more communicatively. Subjective opinion? Absolutely. How could it be otherwise?
Best,
Bob
I had the chance to hear a large number of LP12s pre and post Cirkus. I've also owned both versions, and have had the chance to hear several otherwise identical table/arm/cart combinations where one LP12 was Cirkused and one was not.
First of all, the difficulties in evaluating what the Cirkus does are obvious to anyone who has worked on an LP12. Anytime you go in the table, the sound changes. And when you replace the very guts of the table, the question of what you're listening to is a real one. Phil makes a very good point about the bearing--if you have an old and/or tired bearing, the Cirkus will be a revelation. Then again, so would a new old-style bearing. Also, most LP12's that get Cirkused (that I saw) were due for a service anyway--and as everyone knows, a complete service by a good dealer can make a surprising improvement.
That said, I think the Cirkus is an unambiguous step forward in terms of clarity--things are just more clear with the Cirkus, especially, as Ron and others have noted, in the bass. The Cirkus also improves on groove noise--something the LP12 is already pretty good at. Bass notes are "cleaned up," and there is a fairly obvious reduction in the warmth of the table that has the effect of making the upper frequencies also sound cleaner.
However, I don't think the Cirkus is an unambiguous improvement. Though the positive elements listed above would seem to indicate otherwise, I find it harder to engage with music played on a Cirkused LP12 relative to a non-Cirkus LP12. This is in context with a Geddon/Aro/Troika/Prefix, and, as BD noted above, the Naimed LP12 seems to benefit less. This makes sense given the Ekos 2 and Lingo's sonic balance, which is tilted to the bass. So installing a Cirkus will have more of an effect with a Linn p/s and arm.
Having had the chance to hear two Geddon/Aro LP12s side by side, one Cirkused and one not, I had to chuckle when I received the volume of Listener where Art decided he liked the non-Cirkus LP12 better. The Cirkused deck offered slightly greater extension and clarity in the bass, with a concomitant apparent increase in resolution throughout the rest of the music range, but the non-Cirkused deck simply played music more effortlessly and more communicatively. Subjective opinion? Absolutely. How could it be otherwise?
Best,
Bob
Posted on: 11 November 2003 by Toksik
DEV B,i beg to differ on cartridge choice regarding Dynavector Stylii.
currently using a Dynavector DV-17D Karat Mk11 on my Ekos Mk11.
i've had the table completely revamped this year -Cirkus,motor,Lingo Mk1 and even got it re-stained (black ash).it's never sounded so good!.
it's previous incarnation was Ittok Lv111/dynavector DV20hx/Valhalla.
these carts from Japan work damned well with the Lp12...and yes i have compared them against a Klyde. the Karat won this round!.you just have to be very C-A-R-E-F-U-L ! after any alcohol......
Dennis
currently using a Dynavector DV-17D Karat Mk11 on my Ekos Mk11.
i've had the table completely revamped this year -Cirkus,motor,Lingo Mk1 and even got it re-stained (black ash).it's never sounded so good!.
it's previous incarnation was Ittok Lv111/dynavector DV20hx/Valhalla.
these carts from Japan work damned well with the Lp12...and yes i have compared them against a Klyde. the Karat won this round!.you just have to be very C-A-R-E-F-U-L ! after any alcohol......
Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Dev B:quote:
Originally posted by bdnyc:
While some of the most experienced and thoughtful Forum members have offered up their insights, I would love to open up the debate for a bit more detailed analysis.
[This message was edited by bdnyc on MONDAY 10 November 2003 at 04:22.]
Excellent post! I can't talk about the bearing, but I find my LP12 prefers classic Linn cartridges with a warmish and more tuneful signature (Troikas & Karmas work well Dynavectors do not). I think the older bearing would work better in my system too. regards
Posted on: 11 November 2003 by David Stewart
Toksik,
Hey look! get with the program - if Dev B says Dynavectors don't work on LP12s, you, me and thousands of other happy LP12/DV users are just plain wrong. We should accept by now that the all-seeing all-knowing Dev couldn't possibly be wrong, after all he's tried pretty much every cart ever made and stuck with each of 'em for about a fortnight 
David
Hey look! get with the program - if Dev B says Dynavectors don't work on LP12s, you, me and thousands of other happy LP12/DV users are just plain wrong. We should accept by now that the all-seeing all-knowing Dev couldn't possibly be wrong, after all he's tried pretty much every cart ever made and stuck with each of 'em for about a fortnight
David
Posted on: 11 November 2003 by bdnyc
Bob and Company-
Thanks for your feedback on the question of the Cirkus. As I use a nearly identical system, with an ARO on a pre cirkus LP 12, early 90's vintage, powered by a Naim Armegeddon, and feeding an internal Prefix K which I currently power with a Hi-Cap, and an aging, but still charming, Troika hanging off the end of my arm, I suspect we share a similar sense of sonic priorities. If anything, I may favor an even warmer balance to my system than you, as I use and love the B&W 804's, and rarely find myself wishing for a faster, leaner, more informative style of sound at home. In fact, when I upgraded to my current arm and P/S from a Rega RB 300 and Valhalla, I did sort of miss the huge, tactile midrange that I had then. Overall though, I prefer the extra insight and precision, but do still want to maximize the organic qualities of vinyl.
I asked because I have my Linn open currently as I had Nana add in the RF mod to my Prefix, and I was debating adding the Cirkus prior to returning my table to my system. I concluded that I liked things the way they were, and I will stay put with the older bearings. I am sure they are still in good shape as my table has not been out of the garage expect for a few "Sunday drives in the country with Grandma"...
Good listening.
Bruce
Thanks for your feedback on the question of the Cirkus. As I use a nearly identical system, with an ARO on a pre cirkus LP 12, early 90's vintage, powered by a Naim Armegeddon, and feeding an internal Prefix K which I currently power with a Hi-Cap, and an aging, but still charming, Troika hanging off the end of my arm, I suspect we share a similar sense of sonic priorities. If anything, I may favor an even warmer balance to my system than you, as I use and love the B&W 804's, and rarely find myself wishing for a faster, leaner, more informative style of sound at home. In fact, when I upgraded to my current arm and P/S from a Rega RB 300 and Valhalla, I did sort of miss the huge, tactile midrange that I had then. Overall though, I prefer the extra insight and precision, but do still want to maximize the organic qualities of vinyl.
I asked because I have my Linn open currently as I had Nana add in the RF mod to my Prefix, and I was debating adding the Cirkus prior to returning my table to my system. I concluded that I liked things the way they were, and I will stay put with the older bearings. I am sure they are still in good shape as my table has not been out of the garage expect for a few "Sunday drives in the country with Grandma"...
Good listening.
Bruce
Posted on: 11 November 2003 by Dev B
quote:
Originally posted by David Stewart:
Toksik,
Hey look! get with the program - if Dev B says Dynavectors don't work on LP12s, you, me and thousands of other happy LP12/DV users are just plain wrong. We should accept by now that the all-seeing all-knowing Dev couldn't possibly be wrong, after all he's tried pretty much every cart ever made and stuck with each of 'em for about a fortnight
David
Big Grin!
No seriously, I really struggled with the Dynavectors, not that I couldn't see their plus points, its just i found them a bit lean in the bass and not very rhythmical. I has an original 17D2 and found it to be too lean and more recently an XX2 which was really excellent in it's vocal projection and clarity but for me was a bit too clear and CD like. It was very resolving though (although the Fraim has a lot to do with that). I found that you can get the XX2 to work well if you use the heavy counterweight.
The Linns (Arkiv B, Troika and Karma) are really good, they have a really meaty dynamic and musical bass with real punch and gravitas. The Arkiv B especially so. The Troika that I am now using is as good as the Arkiv IMHO but the tracking is inferior. The really old original Karma is warmer than Troika although all the Linns really shine in the PRaT department.
I have also tried a Ortofon SPU Royal N which is quite warm and dynamic but not as good in the PRaT department.
I can see why people like the Dynavectors and if your system is a bit too full and slow like Mana it will certainly speed it up and add excitement.
I am looking for some good opinions on Koetsus and Aro compatibilty, as i am bit concerned on the geometirc compatibility.
ps. all powered by the Prefix straight off the 52 for the full PRaT effect. I don't think it is as rhythmical when powered by a separate HiCap.
Posted on: 11 November 2003 by John G.
"Though the positive elements listed above would seem to indicate otherwise, I find it harder to engage with music played on a Cirkused LP12 relative to a non-Cirkus LP12. This is in context with a Geddon/Aro/Troika/Prefix, and, as BD noted above, the Naimed LP12 seems to benefit less. This makes sense given the Ekos 2 and Lingo's sonic balance, which is tilted to the bass. So installing a Cirkus will have more of an effect with a Linn p/s and arm." Bob Edwards
I agree with your analysis of the Cirkus. I'm using an Ekos, Lingo and Troika/Klyde and still prefer the non-cirkused deck. The Cirkus has a pretty noticeable effect on the bass and might be judged as an improvement in some instances. I think if the deck is well set-up and is on a good support you'll find that the bass kind of goes away when the Cirkus is installed.
The most significant thing to me was just the music came across to me much better when the old bearing was in my deck. The hi-fi things that the Cirkus brought to the system was achieved by better set-up.
Here's a link with more Cirkus discussion:
http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=2091996922&r=1971966032#1971966032
I agree with your analysis of the Cirkus. I'm using an Ekos, Lingo and Troika/Klyde and still prefer the non-cirkused deck. The Cirkus has a pretty noticeable effect on the bass and might be judged as an improvement in some instances. I think if the deck is well set-up and is on a good support you'll find that the bass kind of goes away when the Cirkus is installed.
The most significant thing to me was just the music came across to me much better when the old bearing was in my deck. The hi-fi things that the Cirkus brought to the system was achieved by better set-up.
Here's a link with more Cirkus discussion:
http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=2091996922&r=1971966032#1971966032
Posted on: 12 November 2003 by David Stewart
Way to go! I think James, I certainly wouldn't rush to 'upgrade' my pre-Cirkus bearing. Better to spend money on carts, arms and PSUs methinks!
Dev,
Your comment about the DV carts being lean in the bass is interesting. It's often suggested the LP12 has a bass hump, which certainly isn't evident on mine, but just maybe the DV cart and LP12 balance each other in this respect
David
Dev,
Your comment about the DV carts being lean in the bass is interesting. It's often suggested the LP12 has a bass hump, which certainly isn't evident on mine, but just maybe the DV cart and LP12 balance each other in this respect
David
Posted on: 12 November 2003 by P
I've had two LP12s in the past year and used them both in the same system. One with a 1989 intermediate bearing, the other a brand new 2003 cirkused deck. The older deck sounded bloated and compressed on the Fraim. The new deck blew away the CDS2 that used to sit there.
The older precirkused decks need something like Mana to iron out that bloatiness (it really does exist).The Fraim prefers the cirkused deck.
P
The older precirkused decks need something like Mana to iron out that bloatiness (it really does exist).The Fraim prefers the cirkused deck.
P