Bitten by a bug called Naim!
Posted by: Surfing Alien on 01 August 2002
Hi Folks!
As posted earlier, this week I auditioned my Marantz CD-63 mkII KI & PM-66 se KI against a Naim set-up consisting of CD5/FC2/NAC 112/NAP 150.
Needless to say Naim beats Marantz hands-down!
This is not to say that the Marantz is a bad system; I’ve been listening to it for 4 years with much pleasure. But there comes a time when you finally meet a brand that makes your ears “drop of” in amazement… Naim
I’ve been listening to many set-ups (some of them ridiculously expensive), but none of them gave me the “thing” I was listening for. Naim provides a sense of transparency, accuracy, speed and maybe the most important… musicality that other brands seem not to offer. And that for a “budget-line” (mind you, I find it expensive enough to my likings)!
By the way, this post is not an open invitation to tell me I should have bought a better Naim system! At any rate, I just called my dealer to order the mentioned set, so there is not much you can do about it anyway
There are still a few questions I have:
- Is Naim equipment in your experience sensitive for connecting the main lead positive/phase wrong? I heard some stories about that.
- What kind of cables come with the set… SNAIC of standard? If standard cables are supplied, is it wise to order SNAIC cables with it?
- Does the FC2 come with cables for both CD5 and NAC 112, or is the one needed for the NAC 112 supplied with the NAP 150/NAC 112?
Of course, any tips & hints are very welcome!
Thanks in advance,
Peter
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by garyi
Excellent, another enters the fold....
Don't worry about a thing Peter, however you may have forgot the speaker cable, and really this should be the 'closing statement' to the deal. In other words screw your dealer down for two lengths of Naca5 speaker cable.
Regards your first query, as with any hifi it is essential that the plus goes to plus, neg goes to neg otherwise the bass dissapears up its own arse. However if you get the speaker cable it is terminated with plugs which will enable you easily to insure you arn't arse about face with the phase.
Have fun when it arrives, it sounds shite in any dealers dem room
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by herm
Congratulations Peter,
about getting the mains lead wrong / right - that's really easy. Yes Naim's sensitive to this, but since all power cords are detachable you can check out which way they should be plugged in.
You need one of those screw drivers with a little light in the handle. They're about a euro ten. But I don't even need to explain all this, as your dealer is duty bound to fix it for you. He has to deliver it in your home. However do ask him how you get the phase right.
Herman
Who is the dealer you're talking about?
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by maserluv
yo surfin alien,
wat speaker r u using or auditin wif at tat pt of time?? juz curious
Wayne
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by Surfing Alien
Hi Garyi, Herm!
I had the pleasure of auditioning the set at home! I have this great dealer in Heiloo (Gerard Schoon) who is also a friend of mine. At Gerard's, it is virtually impossible to buy any equipment you haven't first listend to at home!
I ordered the NACA5 cable with the system!
Thanx guys!!!
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by jes0369
Hi Peter,
"- Does the FC2 come with cables for both CD5 and NAC 112, or is the one needed for the NAC 112 supplied with the NAP 150/NAC 112?"
You will need to buy an extra snaic to run both a cd5 and nac 112 from a flatcap 2, as only one cable is provided.
All other cables are supplied.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
james
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by Surfing Alien
Hi Wayne!
The speakers I use are Scan-Speak Reference Monitors, a DIY kit I build some 4 years ago. It's a 2-way system with the D2905/99000 Revelator & 18W/8546-01. I've been searching quite a long time for speakers when I ran into them. While other speakers imho tried (and failed) to impress me, this speaker gives a total flat response combined with fast & detailed information.
The Revelator tweeter is extremly good; right now, I'm designing a speaker using the same tweeter, but with two new Scan-Speak 5" woofers also from the Revelator range!
grtnx Peter
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by matthewr
"wat speaker r u usin"
Aaaagggghhhhhh! TXT SPK on the Naim Forum! Is nowhere safe? Please stop it now or nobody over the age of 15 will be able to answer your question.
Matthew
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by garyi
;-)
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by herm
Well, Peter,
ask G.S. to explain the trick to determine the phase to you.
And if you're buying all this stuff brand new (and you're on good terms) he should be able to throw in that second FC2 snaic for free, IMHO. Really, you're purchasing quite a pile of stuff at one go; don't be shy to ask.
Herman
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by Mike Sae
Geoff,
Mase just accused Alien of sleeping with his sister.
Posted on: 01 August 2002 by Steve Toy
Connect the FC2 Output A to the CD5, and leave the Output B disconnected. The 150 can be us to power the 112. Not only will you save £50 on the extra SNAIC, but the system as a whole will sound better that way.
Trust me, I reached this conclusion after successive blind tests using the electronics you have just purchased.
Of course, your own speakers may throw up a different set of variables on this particular score, but I very much doubt it.
Regards,
Steve.
Let your ears do the talking, let your remote control do the walking...
Posted on: 02 August 2002 by Jay
quote:
Connect the FC2 Output A to the CD5, and leave the Output B disconnected. The 150 can be us to power the 112. Not only will you save £50 on the extra SNAIC, but the system as a whole will sound better that way.
No offence Steven but I'd recommend that Peter actually tries that for himself.
IMHO I thought that Output A to the pre and Output B to the CD was better than what you've recommended. Mind you that was with a CD3.5/72/FC2/180 so it could be different for the CD5/112/150.
Jay
Posted on: 02 August 2002 by Arthur
and nothing but absolutely right.
And to Surfing Alien, when I bought the entire set in one go, the dealer added all the required cabling into the deal for free. That includes the NAC-A5 speaker cable (2 x 6m) and the additional cables for connecting the CD5 and 112 to the FC2. So I suppose if you spend that amount of money, it should be a complete system...
Have lots of fun with it!
Arthur
Posted on: 02 August 2002 by Steve Toy
quote:
No offence Steven but I'd recommend that Peter actually tries that for himself.
I wouldn't disagree. It'll cost him nothing to try this out, and may even save him £50 on purchasing the borrowed second SNAIC required for the experiment.
By giving the CD5 the benefit of Output A, you are maximising your source component.
Regards,
Steve.
Let your ears do the talking, let your remote control do the walking... Posted on: 03 August 2002 by Rico
Please stop it now or nobody over the age of 15 will be able to answer your question.ROFL.
Well, nobody over 15 or those who work in advertising agencies with cellular provider accounts, that is.
Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 03 August 2002 by maserluv
hahahaa aplogise guys,
any folks out there have any experience match a nait5 with a pair of quad 11L bookshelf speakers?? wanna hear from you guys before jumping into getting it. i got some deals over here for that pair.
currently i'm using a KEF Cresta 2. thought of upgrading my speaker.
btw i'm using a cd5/luxman tuner/nait5/all naim cables.
Wayne
Posted on: 04 August 2002 by Steve Toy
Yes.
Get a Hi-cap for the CD5 and then use Output A of the FC2 to power the preamp. That's another substantial improvement in performance notably in resolving power and refinement.
Regards,
Steve.
Let your ears do the talking, let your remote control do the walking...
Posted on: 05 August 2002 by Surfing Alien
Hi Guys,
On the subject of using the FC2 (using one for both CD5 and NAC 112), I contacted Naim. This is the reply send to me:
-------------------------------------------------
The Flatcap 2 was specifically designed to power 2 units. The Forum members sometimes make exaggerated claims regarding the effects of power supplies. There is no advantage in you using 2 Flatcap 2's in the system you describe. The ONLY part of the CD5 the Flatcap has influence on is it's output stage. One is enough.
-------------------------------------------------
As I take nothing for granted, I tested possible ways to use the FC2 myself with the following results:
FC2 output A to CD5 only:
Souds somewhat different than no FC2 at all. Personally I feel this is degrading the sound instead of enhancement. This could be caused by the voltage on output A, whitch gives 2 volts more than output B. If de CD5 was designed to work best at 24 V, why wouldn't Naim design the FC2 with output B also at 24V? Costs? I doubt it; it probably would be cheaper.
FC2 output A to NAC 112 only:
Major improvement, especially on (louder) reproduction of sub bass. It definetly has more control. I think this is due to the larger current drawing by the NAP 150 at that time.
FC2 output A to CD5 and output B to CD5:
IMHO the right combination! Excellent contol on bass, best imaging ans staging. And most important music music music!!!!
Also, since Naim uses 2 separated regulator sections feeded by one torroidal (is that spelled right) transformer with separated secundary windings for both the 24V and 22V outputs, I cannot think of any reason why the two should differ in quality; not at that current rating that is!
By this I'm not trying to piss at anyone; this is simply the judgement using my ears. Some of you will have different results! And that, in the end, is what counts!
On the topic of connecting the power leads (0 and phase) correctly, I know how it's done, but before I ever listened to Naim, I couldn't hear any difference. After testing, I admit it is audiable! Thanx guys!!!!!
Many thanx on all the other advice!!!!!
Peter
