Naim Fraim

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

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FRAIM costs £500 for the base, and £300 for each shelf. If you click on 'search' at the top of the page, you will find about 95 references to FRAIM in past topics.

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That would make a 5 tier stand 2000 quid. IIRC my Mana 5 tier would cost about 700 quid (I think I paid 600 just prior to the price rise a while back, and I didn't consider that cheap!). So 2k would get you a five tier jacked up to Phase 6 plus a hundred quid left over to fling over the counter of the nearest record shop. That would make for a very interesting comparison. Rumour on the street would seem to indicate that Fraim is good, but it will need to be astonishingly good to justify that kind of money.

Tony.

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jacked up to Phase 6

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The thing is Tony, there are plenty of people, me included, who think that Mana actually sounds best when it is on about phase 1 or 0. This whole idea that it just gets better and better the more bases you stick under it seems to me to be just a great marketing ploy invented to keep shifting angle iron to existing cutomers. So I don't see why anyone who wanted a stand whould "waste" the extra on loads of stages when you might as well spend £700 on a stand, and £1300 on music.
John

Comparing Mana and Fraim is unrealistic.

Mana is a product designed to do the job of enhancing sound.

Fraim is also a product designed to enhance sound but it is also a superb piece of furniture which will enhance the appearance of any room and also show off the kit to maximum advantage.

You cannot realise the quality of the Fraim until you examine it in detail. There is absolutely nothing else on the market that can hold a candle to it.

As regards to value for money....all I will say is this....Mana seems a lot of money for an assembly of angle iron and glass with a few grubscrews thrown in. I think any competent engineer could make it for much less but of course, cannot do so, until Mana's Patents run out. I would expect prices to drop significantly once this happens and new competitors come in on the scene.

The Fraim is expensive but quality always is and at the end of the day we all make the final choice.

I have recently purchased Hutter for about just under 50% of the cost of the equivalent Fraim and I am pleased with it. However, I am sorely tempted to put the secondary system on the Hutter and buy a Fraim for the main system.

Initially the Frame price does seem outrageously high but once you see it in the flesh, you accept that you are buying the Rolls Royce of stands.

Experience of life as often taught me that it always pays to buy the best rather than compromise on price and quality. How many posts have you seen where people are thinking of replacing a cheap stand for a decent one.

Always buy the best stuff if it is of importance to you and by virtue of the fact that you are viewing this forum, indicates that you want good stuff .......so get the best.

Regards

Mick

Go ahead with the Fraims, but IMHO the Hutters look better and are more compact.

With regards to looks. For me it is the Sound Organisation fully weldeds that evoke nostagic feelings of the flat-earth 80's-90's.

They're still fantastic (I have one and want another), and it is a shame they stopped making them in favour of the current bolt-together modernistic style.

I hope you had a good holiday,

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I'm glad you like the Fraims, but having seen them "in the flesh" at the High End in Frankfurt, I don't see what's so special about their finish. Build quality is good, as always with Naim, especially the aluminium parts, but I find the wooden parts nothing special, on the contrary, I think the chosen wood is even rather cheap looking! Note that I didn't see the black Fraims. They were however smaller and a bit more discreet than I had imagined. The price was not yet known officially, but a 4-tier should cost 5500 DEM. This corresponds with the outrageous prices mentioned on the Forum before.
The system they were used in, was quite impressive (CDS II, NAC 52, NAP 500, allaes), but not having heard this system before, I couldn't tell what the Fraims did/did not.

Ciao!

Willem

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Initially the Frame price does seem outrageously high but once you see it in the flesh, you accept that you are buying the Rolls Royce of stands.

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I must admit it's not the metaphor I'd have chosen (unless I'd heard the Fraim and been bitterly disappointed). To me, Rolls Royce cars are the epitome of mis-directed craftsmanship and outdated technology. If I wanted (and could afford) a boat on wheels I'd buy, for a fraction of the price of a Rolls, a lazy American gas guzzler of the type favoured in the '70s.

I'm trying to think of my own car metaphor - based on what I imagine the Fraim sounds like - but I'm stumped...

--Jeremy

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To me, Rolls Royce cars are the epitome of mis-directed craftsmanship and outdated technology

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Ignoring such indefinable qualities as 'character' etc. anyone who believes a Rolls is manufactured with anywhere near the precision or quality of engineering of, for example, a Lexus is badly mistaken.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes

They do weigh 2.5 tons though!

Matthew

cheers

Nigel

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Remember the older tiered stands that Naim used ot use in their newsletters? Who made those?

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i think you may be talking about Projekt. I dont think they are made anymore -- AFAIK, the company is no longer trading, but i am not 100% sure -someone may care correct me on this.

but if you are interested in a Projekt rack, mail me on kchakahwata@aol.com

regards

ken

Please remember that "wide gaps" keep the pre amps away from the other stuff and you get a cleaner sound as a result....no humm etc.

I think you can trust Naim to determine the best dimmensions.

Regards

Mick

Please accept it from an old chap who is absolutely convinced about the importance of good supports and who would, otherwise, dye for having a Fraim.

As one old man to another, I am surprised that a chap of your experience could issue such writings without hearing and viewing the product first hand.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I have yet to see any picture which does Fraim justice. I am sure that once you have the opportunity to cast your eye over it, you will change your mind.

Regards

Mick

in the meantime, have fun with hutter, mana, quadraspire, target, etc etc...

patience glasshopper...

enjoy

ken

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i suspect there will be a frame-jnr. in the not too distant future, with perhaps a few compromises, but at a rather lower price.

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Ken,

And in good Naim spirit, you will be able to upgrade to a full spec Fraim!

Ciao!

Willem

hopefully.

enjoy

ken

Have heard and seen and is so much fun!

Duncan

"? Who made those? A much neater fit ..."
Musicline in Germany make a similar stand to projeckt and is sold by Phil March at Phonograhy in Ringwood.

Except I forgot to tell my wife before committing to 2xbase and 6xshelves. Tip to all Naim users: Consult with the missus before committing this sum of money on shelves!

Can't wait for it to arrive. And I'm going to do a back to back with the dealer's 250 to see why his system sounded better than mine. Perhaps my 135's have died (they are now 5 years old).

Oh - I also had to change the colour ordered at the request of Mrs B. But it's gonna look mean on all black Fraims.

Regards, CB
PS I'll report on the findings when it arrives. If not before the BBQ, I'll be scouring the factory to check up on my order status.

Tip to all Naim users: Consult with the missus before committing this sum of money on shelves!

ah, but you could always try "honey, its been there all the time, you just didnt notice!"

i suspect the fraims had a lot to do with the improved sound quality, but i hope your dealer will assess your system and get any problmes sorted before your fraims are delivered -- given all that business you have thrown his way.

last time i demmed cdsii at infidelity, i felt their demo system (on quadraspires) sounded better than mine -- but i think this was just the fact that my system had not been fully runin by then.

what sort of improvements did you hear with the fraims?

enjoy

ken

I think there is a point that can’t be avoid any more. With respect on the very broad sortiment of Naim Audio, not to mention its rational approach to the problem of cableing, the stratospherically priced Fraim is in contradiction with Naim’s known policy. At this point, it’s not satisfactory any more to realize that Fraims are better than Manas. In my country there is no Naim dealer so there is no Fraim but there is Mana and there is Townshend. According to some gurus the latter may be far better. What’s more, even some imitations made by a local craftsman are far better than Manas. So I think my question can be highly realistic.
graphoman