Naim Fraim

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According to some gurus the latter may be far better.

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your own opinion probably matters much more than all the gurus' put together...

enjoy

ken

We used two base units, two shelves on one (CDS II or LP12, NAC 52) and three on the other (SUPERCAP, XPS, 500PS, NAP 500 on top). Speakers were ProAc Future 2s.

Some observations:

1) LP12 on Fraim? YES!!! (This will be the first stand in my home system, as I'll mount a Dynavector XX2 on the ARO this week.)

Compared this to the house LP12 favorite (Audiotech) and it won subject to the following observation:

2) Spare shelf (no glass) under CDS II or LP12 is a must--stand upgrade fanatics beware...one as a minimum, better than no extra shelf at all (that is, better than one level closer to floor).

Best results were obtained thusly:

CDS II or LP12 on top shelf
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no glass on second shelf
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NAC 52 on bottom shelf, no lid (less weight?)

subject to limited Fraim on hand--we'd have tried more levels (or with an unloaded bottom shelf) had this been possible. Replacing the glass on the unused shelf added a slowness and ringing to the system (relatively speaking), like an unused diaphragm.

Dave Dever, NANA

[This message was edited by David Dever, NANA on SATURDAY 30 June 2001 at 23:47.]

Chris from Real Music has told me that a shipment of Fraim is on it's way to NZ. It may already be spoken for but give him a call or flick him an email on info@hi-fi.co.nz or nadist@ihug.co.nz

Jay

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NAC 52 on bottom shelf, no lid

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Allan

Yes, I have heard both and I found the Townshend more sympathetic but I had no chance to hear them side-by-side and especially not in my home. My opinion should be, of course, mandatory if I’ll have to make a decision but I am still too far from it and in the very moment I can’t help but repeating the necessity of dealing with the Townshend.

That reminds me an old story where the visitor kept asking who the most sapient citizen of the town was, and everybody’s answer was: “Me! – with John Smith on the second place.” The Townshend product may likely be the John Smith of the story.

Nevertheless, it is funny to running against such a stout resistance in the case of an English product, reported about from the audio vacuum of Central Europe.
graphoman

1) LP12 on Fraim? YES!!! (This will be the first stand in my home system, as I'll mount a Dynavector XX2 on the ARO this week.)

i would be very interested in what you think of the xx2. as you are probably i aware, i have just had that fitted to my aro, and its groove-licking good (doesnt quite scan, but who cares?). and i am very pleased with it.

so please let us know how yiu get on... we are also obviosuly all very interested in how the new kid on the block (fraim) shapes up...

enjoy

ken

Anyway, regarding the demo, all the gear was set up on the Fraims; it was only the CD player which was moved from the Quadraspire to the Fraim and back again etc. So I am hoping it really was the shelving which was making it all sound so much better than my set up at home. (It’s certainly not warm up since my gear is left powered on permanently.) Remember, my set up is just on two Target TT4 shelves.

The main audio differences relative to my 135’s and SBL’s set up seemed that it had more attack. It seemed faster. Certainly there seemed to be some harshness in the treble, but I understand this could be due to the tweeter used in the Credo not being of quite the same calibre as that in the SBL. Consequently, I worry it might be that the 135’s are getting tired. – as I said above, they are 5 years old. The dealer is going to bring a “new” 250 with him when he delivers the Fraims, so at least I’ll be able to check out this theory. I might also ask him to bring the Music Works distribution block and mains leads with him too since this might be a factor (I use a Hi-Fi News distribution block wired with High Power Kimber cable).

However, one very significant fact I’ve found is that in his demo room I was sat quite close to the speakers. I’ve since tried moving about my listening room and have indeed found that by sitting furthe forward the sound does indeed seem more alive. But then it seems the overall integration of the stereo image is adversely affected.

Roll on the arrival of the Fraims and the back to back trial with the 250. I shall report.

Regards, CB

it would of course have been ideal if you had taken your equipment to audition on the fraims at the dealers', but sometimes this is not always convenient. still worth considering.

the essence of your message though is that the fraims certainly didnt do any harm, and in fact most probably enhanced the 52/cdsii/credo system, substantially.

i bet you can't wait to hear what the fraims will do to a fully loaded 135 system? please let us know...

enjoy

ken

I think the relative performance of the fraim against the quadraspire has already been established.

I think the relative performance of the fraim against the quadraspire has already been established.

Simon,

If might say that was a very bold statement! Just because someone prefers A rather than B that is not a definitive ruling just a subjective preference.

I prefer Hutter to Mana & Q/spire, others have strong allegiances to the other 2 stands. Long may this difference of opinion flourish.

Bob.

Sorry if my post was ambiguous. I was responding directly to Omar and specifically with reference to Clive's purchasing choice and preferences. Clive has made his mind up based upon his listening experience ( amoungst other factors). As in all these things, everyone should make there own mind up based upon there own listening experiences.

My understanding from Clive's post is that he prefers the fraim to the quadraspire, both in terms of appearance as well as sound quality. This opinion has been arrived at AFTER a dealer demonstration. Although the dem has asked questions about the performance of his home system in comparison to the shop system, this fact is independant to HIS judgement of the relative performance of the two stand designs. If he decided to save money and buy the quadraspire he would be purchasing a stand which he believes is inferior to the fraim - something he did not want to do - his choice.

As he went in the shop to buy a new stand it would be pretty odd for him to have left with a pre amplifier which will probably cost in excess of 10,000 pounds and in any case does not exist!!

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the new improved QS or other quality racks might do the trick at a fraction of the cost of the Fraim.

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Well, you could always have compared them at the dealer's shop, right?!

Actually, Clive, if you leave the amps on continuously, it may be possible that the small 10uF blue caps on the power supply boards might need a change-out after five-six years (these go sooner than the big caps), but it is probably likely that it's the stand--really (it better be for the money).

Dave Dever, NANA

I feel that a home dem for either hardware or ancillaries is a must though.

Best wishes,

Bob.

Still, it's like this...
I had originally been sold on the idea of replacing the Target stands in an effort to move away from the ferfous solution. (So how does Mana work then? - Who cares?). I originally asked the dealer to do Target versus Quadraspire and anything else he could recommend. He told me then that the new Naim Fraim had arrived and I ought to consider that. I advised him that the cost was prohibitive (after all, the QS solution would only have cost me £560 and if that did the trick...). Still, I arrived too late for the demo but saw the Fraim and, at the dealer's suggestion (read insistance or arm twisting), arranged another date to include the Naim shelves.

At the Bristol show I didn't particularly like the styling, but in hindsight I think it looks pretty stunning. It certainly complements the Naim equipment. And besides, the QS does look a bit like a 1970's coffee table.

But on audition (with just the CD player being moved as described previously) the improvement was most noticeable. Instrumental separation was the obvious difference. It became far easier to follow individual instruments, yet there was no loss of overall coherence.

So, looks + sound = credit card danger. And without consulting the wife - double trouble.

The point of concern was that I thought it sounded better than my home setup, but I never heard the dealer's system on Target TT4. I am hoping that all will be resolved with the new stands (as the gentleman from NANA said - it ought to, given the price).

But I promise to report once it's set up and in action. Promised delivery date now Friday 13th (Oh dear could be ominous - I bet it'll be the power amps...).

Watch this thread...

Regards, CB

I trust your good self and the wife returned safely from the Barbie and that you have now set up your Fraim successfully.

Any chance of an update?

You know why I need to know.

P.

(real pleasure meeting you both BTW - Lin sends regards)