New streamer from Bryston

Just read their white paper and was astounded by its resemblance to what I and some others pleaded to Naim to come up with.

They commented on the “swiss army knife” approach, “This receiver approach ….. performance suffers due to issues of noise and distortion created by this all in one approach.“

Amazingly, like what we did in this forum previously, they went on and listed out “WHAT IT DOES NOT DO” (Their caps, not mine), Quote follows: “The BDP-1 Digital Player doesn’t rip content, doesn’t clean up your data, doesn’t display its playlists on a built in screen, and doesn’t rip files. This is because it has no fancy display screen, no hard drive, and no CD drawer or Ripper, and no Wireless Streaming. It boots from flash memory with a read only file system.”

So essentially it is simply a Squeezbox like device with ability to play from both USB and LAN devices. And hopefully will sound even better than the Transporter.

To us Squeezebox users out there, the above is plain common sense. But somehow it is very difficult for HQ to digest that.

I realize that Naim is trying to serve to the non-computer crowd. But they also have to realize that the non-computer crowd will never buy into the HDX concept, but neither will the computer crowd. And the future lies with the computer crowd, not the other crowd.

I would friendly remind HQ to please read the Bryston white paper. Not rocket science, just plain common sense.

It doesn't seem like a 'Squeezebox like device ' to me at all. It can only play files from a USB stick or drive to which it must be attached, it can't use the network directly as a source of streamed music. Playlists are implemented via USB sticks! And you still need an external (s/pdif driven) DAC. Very clunky and incomplete.

It is not a streamer. It won't play from a NAS or anywhere other than a USB in. They use a stock sound card. It has wired ethernet but it's only to access files on the locally attached USB drive. It has ethernet complexity but they wont use it to play files? I can perhaps see a purist view of leaving things off but how does having the connection reduce noise. Just because they don't stream files through it? It still has a PC board and sound card using open source Linux. I'd expect a dedicated OS in something making such a big deal about cutting noise and recourses. How does a ripper that's not in use or internal sata storage effect play performance more than a powered USB connection or if not used for power, USB coupled to a dirty stock powered switching supply supporting the external drive. This will also be $2k without a display remote. USB better than SATA? If you're getting album art on the remote, where do you think that comes from? This is clearly not the device I want and for me, seems to be designed with a very narrow set of blinders and preconceptions. I doubt this is what you were asking for either. I was thinking something more like the ssd Unitiserve which wont be that much more, do more, like actually stream, play all files types including Internet radio, do local drives if you prefer and probably available before the Bryston. Apperantly, Naim isn't even making you wait as long for your dream device.


If you're very fond of what Bryston has sounded like in the past, then assume it may at least be good. If not, well you get the drift. I don't see the hub bub here for any but Bryston fanatics.

Hard to read from my iPhone here, but didn't I read the presence of Ethernet and browser and iPod control

The word NAS was also all over the document

So unless they are the dumbest engineers in the world, they would not put all those networking capability there and forgot streaming access would they?

Highly doubtful but the world is getting stranger by day

No idea how Bryston sources sound. I also know that naim is not the only source making good sound. And it will be voiced by my naim dac anyway

quote:

Originally posted by js:
It is not a streamer. It won't play from a NAS or anywhere other than a USB in.

It is indeed a mediaplayer of limited capabilities. I must say a strange choice of features to limit its input only to attached USB-devices.

My guess is this will appeal only to a very limited scope of people.


EDIT:
The preview also say though that Bryston might add NAS-access in the future which would make it more usable. BTW, the player is mpd on a Linux box:

quote:

Moving forward we are going to look at the possibility of integrating a NAS (network attached storage) drive to the BDP-1 so the network would ‘find’ the NAS drive instantly on the network when connected.

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:


So unless they are the dumbest engineers in the world, they would not put all those networking capability there and forgot streaming access would they?

Yes. Read the document. You can only use the network to load the attached USB drive. They aren't the dumbest engineers in the world though. Someone somewhere in BP is.

And those files still need to be put onto that drive at a remote location??? I'm not really sure what this thing was designed to be a solution to. I understand folks here wanting a specific product for their needs but I can't imagine who wouldn't want a bit more flexability than this offers.

I think they wanted to put something on the market quickly.

My edit from just now states that they will look at adding NAS access in the future, which should have been there from the beginning IMHO

quote:

Moving forward we are going to look at the possibility of integrating a NAS (network attached storage) drive to the BDP-1 so the network would ‘find’ the NAS drive instantly on the network when connected.

-
aleg

So it sounds like they will eventually build that Swiss Army knife out of the current pen knife.

quote:

If you're very fond of what Bryston has sounded like in the past, then assume it may at least be good. If not, well you get the drift. I don't see the hub bub here for any but Bryston fanatics.

Not familiar with Bryston at all except has quite good reputation of building no nonsense solid machines with 20 years warranty and some with lifetime.

But my point is not to pick out the features of the Bryston or how good it would sound. Just want to show Naim HQ the machine that makes sense is not a "Uniti"WhatKnot, but a "Seperati"

It's OK to have a Uniti-everything-with-integrated-amp for the entry level, Linn is doing that with the Sneaky DS but everyone knows that is the "lifestyle" entry machine. everything else is separate.

i dont think anyone who has the dac will be able to purchase a digital output only streamer. there wouldnt be to much profit in it. we will end paying for circiuts that are redundant .preamp/power amp etc .

seems every one is adding/dacs to their range. competition is good for the customer

From what I understand, it will stream from a NAS via Ethernet and squirt it out of an AES/EBU balanced output. The cover art will come from the tags in the e.g. FLAC file. It can be remotely controlled by an iPhone.
I can't see where it says a USB input only from a USB hard drive (although that seems to be supported too).
Coupled with a DAC, it seems to be quite a sensible solution. Ethernet in, digital out.
I guess if you need to use a Naim DAC, you'd need to convert from AES/EBU to S/PDIF, but that's just a simple adapter. Not sure what the audio quality hit would be though.
Interesting

quote:

I was thinking something more like the ssd Unitiserve

oops my bad i actually forgot about the unitiserve, there has been so many uniti Whatchamacallit that I lost count. Shows how confusing Naim is.

Isn't the Unitiserve SSD just a lower grade HDX. If it is then it is a baby step forward with no screen but a giant step back since it is lower grade machine and no expansion. In any case, even if they strip away the hard disk for good measure, why do we need the SSD? It will store enough music only for a couple of CDs.

Very simple, we need a HDX grade machine to match our naim DAC, with all the gadgets stripped out. Why is that hard?

Naim will sell more of what they have chosen to make and what they have chosen doesn't compromise perforance. The ssd doesn't store anything but is used as a rip buffer etc. By gadgets, you mean a drive that makes creating your library in the best possible format extremely easy and fool proof without any additional maitenance. What else don't you want?

To clarify for those people asking about the Bryston BDP-1 and it's NAS capability ... Bryston clearly say...

Home Network (propeller-head option): The BDP-1 is a technically sophisticated component incorporating state of the art solid-state electronics which links up to your home network and may be controlled by a variety of graphic interface devices (eg, laptop, Netbook, PC, PDA, iPhone, web-browser etc.). The BDP-1’s graphic interface operates under "open source" software protocols, ensuring long term future proofing and compatibility with the widest possible range of other digital devices as they are developed. We will also be developing our own ‘Bryston’ web based MPD client. The main point to understand here is the BDP-1 is ‘accessing’ the digital files from the attached USB drives(s) directly and not streaming files on the network. The network is only used to interface your library storage on your remote (itouch, laptop, notebook etc.) or using a web browser on your computer as the interface. This approach eliminates all the issues inherent in streaming high-resolution digital files over the home network or the dreaded ‘sharing the home network’ with the rest of the family.

and add...

Moving forward we are going to look at the possibility of integrating a NAS (network attached storage) drive to the BDP-1 so the network would ‘find’ the NAS drive instantly on the network when connected.

So no, at time of launch the Bryston BDP-1 will NOT read files on a NAS, the network is purely to allow control.

Eloise

PS. not sure if this link is acceptable - but the full text of the "Sneak Peak" of the BDP-1 is at http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.0

quote:

Originally posted by Nero:
From what I understand, it will stream from a NAS via Ethernet and squirt it out of an AES/EBU balanced output. The cover art will come from the tags in the e.g. FLAC file. It can be remotely controlled by an iPhone.
I can't see where it says a USB input only from a USB hard drive (although that seems to be supported too).

This is from the audioafficionado website where it is described in relative detail:

quote:

The main point to understand here is the BDP-1 is ‘accessing’ the digital files from the attached USB drives(s) directly and not streaming files on the network. The network is only used to interface your library storage on your remote (itouch, laptop, notebook etc.) or using a web browser on your computer as the interface. This approach eliminates all the issues inherent in streaming high-resolution digital files over the home network or the dreaded ‘sharing the home network’ with the rest of the family.

Moving forward we are going to look at the possibility of integrating a NAS (network attached storage) drive to the BDP-1 so the network would ‘find’ the NAS drive instantly on the network when connected.

Clear enough I think

EDIT:
Sorry a dup to the post of Eloise
-
aleg

Thanks for the link (if it stays there). I stand corrected. I'll stick with the DS then.

The 'dreaded' shared home network? You mean the one they actually connect to and will eventually use for music. Has anyone experienced a hard wired home network that was too busy to stream a HiDef music file as implied by that link? I mean, really. Excusing the lack of function by making up solutions for problems that don't exist?

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Naim will sell more of what they have chosen to make and what they have chosen doesn't compromise perforance. The ssd doesn't store anything but is used as a rip buffer etc. By gadgets, you mean a drive that makes creating your library in the best possible format extremely easy and fool proof without any additional maitenance. What else don't you want?

Sorry if I sound like a broken record. I want a HDX grade machine without paying for the extras and the noise associated with them.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
The 'dreaded' shared home network? You mean the one they actually connect to and will eventually use for music. Has anyone experienced a hard wired home network that was too busy to stream a HiDef music file as implied by that link? I mean, really. Excusing the lack of function by making up solutions for problems that don't exist?

That is dumb
I think this is very early WIP

quote:

Originally posted by js:
The 'dreaded' shared home network? You mean the one they actually connect to and will eventually use for music. Has anyone experienced a hard wired home network that was too busy to stream a HiDef music file as implied by that link? I mean, really. Excusing the lack of function by making up solutions for problems that don't exist?

Nope. I choce gigibit ethernet 'cause its cheap and reliable. I can stream 1080p video on one mac, AVis on another and music on the other with no issues.

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Naim will sell more of what they have chosen to make and what they have chosen doesn't compromise perforance. The ssd doesn't store anything but is used as a rip buffer etc. By gadgets, you mean a drive that makes creating your library in the best possible format extremely easy and fool proof without any additional maitenance. What else don't you want?

Sorry if I sound like a broken record. I want a HDX grade machine without paying for the extras and the noise associated with them.

Well, that sure aint it and what makes you think that the dig out of an HDX is noisier, LOL. It may not be for you but there's a reason it has seperate supplies for the digital and DAC/analog sections and the dig out is also isolated from the internal stream.

Sounds a lot like you're asking for the Unitiserve which is a lot closer to your needs than the device you started this thread about and bumped. The only thing it has that you wouldn't necessarily want is the disc drive which is going to help sell it and more importantly make sure most that do purchase will have proper sounding libraries when they may not have otherwise. The disc drive is also not going to effect anything when not in use.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Well, that sure aint it and what makes you think that the dig out of an HDX is noisier, LOL. It may not be for you but there's a reason it has seperate supplies for the digital and DAC/analog sections and the dig out is also isolated from the internal stream.

LOL that's exactly my point. If those unnecessary noise making devices inside which cost $ were not there in the first, then we won't have to pay for those separate supplies and draconian physical/electrical isolation mechanism which again we have to pay for. And no matter how good Naim's mammoth effort is, it will only approach the noise level of when those devices are not there, isn't it.

There is this other thread with heated discussion how Naim's heroic effort of eliminating electrical noise from SPDIF and buffer digital data to eliminate timing errors introduced by transport, and yet all the smart people assert that even with that transport still make enough significant differences for people to buy CDX2S Vs CD5XS Vs a cheap transport. If we are so picky about eliminating noise of all sorts, why the double standard with this digital streamer? Why not eliminate all possible noise sources? Why spend all that money to put it there and all that money just to kill their harmfulness? Why is that difficult to appreciate?

quote:

Sounds a lot like you're asking for the Unitiserve which is a lot closer to your needs than the device you started this thread about and bumped. The only thing it has that you wouldn't necessarily want is the disc drive which is going to help sell it and more importantly make sure most that do purchase will have proper sounding libraries when they may not have otherwise. The disc drive is also not going to effect anything when not in use.

" The disc drive is also not going to effect anything when not in use." - May be, but may be not, why does everything matter when Naim is trying to sell us a transport, and nothing matters when it is built into the streamer?

And yes it seems like the UnitiServe is closer to what I am after. But then it is aimed at the low end with no PS upgrade etc. The next step up would still stubbornly be the venerable HDX with all the mistakes that Naim invested in the very first go into the streamer world.

And by the way it has been proven numerously by studio engineers and others that rippers do not make a difference most of the time when done properly, and if one wants to be paranoid it is not so hard just to use EAC. The Naim ripper is probably very good with 100% accuracy, but EAC is equally good.

And oh if Naim is trying to serve the luddites then it is either here nor there, because I think luddites won't bother, and the propeller heads will not need the extras...

Sorry if I seem to whine so much, I am only one single user of streamers almost since day one when first the first feasible streamer was released by Slim, and I think Naim is so close to having the ideal streamer yet so far away. There should almost be a market modders who just take out all the junk inside and have a naim racing special.

oOps I think the last part will get edited.

Better to pay for it than have poor performance and what do negative adjectives like dragonian have to do with what Naim have done in an HDX. Well sorted and necessary for it's function is not dragonian. you may not want all it's function but that's not a fault. Simply a choice. The Unitiserve is what's in question here for your particular needs and not the HDX anyway. You don't like the transport, most will and trust me most customer rips before coming to the shop are not good. Who gives a rat's ass about studios can prove or what a PC is capable of. What's happening in the real world? I don't consider those that have been ripping to media players or music lovers that aren't good with computers luddites. The noise complaint is erronious, the dragonian comment is erronious and you're constantly changing the discussion to the complexity required to make an HDX without said limitations from the Unitiserve which is what Naim is making for those with needs more similar to yours. The HDX also has no PS upgrade as streamer. Inboard only. The Uniti has an outboard supply. Buy something worse without a transport if it bothers you so much but don't disparage just because it wasn't made specifically for you or you're unhappy about being called out on a streamer thread that doesn't stream. Or you can pull the transport from a Unitiserve without increasing performance, pay more and smile about it.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Better to pay for it than have poor performance and what do negative adjectives like dragonian have to do with what Naim have done in an HDX. Well sorted and necessary for it's function is not dragonian. you may not want all it's function but that's not a fault. Simply a choice. The Unitiserve is what's in question here for your particular needs and not the HDX anyway. You don't like the transport, most will and trust me most customer rips before coming to the shop are not good. Who gives a rat's ass about studios can prove or what a PC is capable of. What's happening in the real world? I don't consider those that have been ripping to media players or music lovers that aren't good with computers luddites. The noise complaint is erronious, the dragonian comment is erronious and you're constantly changing the discussion to the complexity required to make an HDX without said limitations from the Unitiserve which is what Naim is making for those with needs more similar to yours. The HDX also has no PS upgrade as streamer. Inboard only. The Uniti has an outboard supply. Buy something worse without a transport if it bothers you so much but don't disparage just because it wasn't made specifically for you or you're unhappy about being called out on a streamer thread that doesn't stream. Or you can pull the transport from a Unitiserve without increasing performance, pay more and smile about it.

selling gear that has more add ons that are not required when you have them already,this is just more profit for dealers and not what the majority of customers want