New streamer from Bryston
Posted by: JYOW on 08 June 2010
Just spotted this new Bryston BDP-1. No link allowed but you can google it.
Don't stone me but this is exactly the strip down LAN streamer we have been waiting for - no hard disk/no integrated amp/no CD transport/no touch screen. Essentially a Transporter on steroid, with USB input like the nDAC, hopefully accessible via the LAN interface.
(It is funny how an ideal product is full of "NO"s)
Knowing Bryston's solid reputation, I would buy that in a heartbeat. If Naim comes up with one that does not cost my arms and legs, I would buy that instead of the Bryston in a heartbeat.
I do not think I am the one either.
Don't stone me but this is exactly the strip down LAN streamer we have been waiting for - no hard disk/no integrated amp/no CD transport/no touch screen. Essentially a Transporter on steroid, with USB input like the nDAC, hopefully accessible via the LAN interface.
(It is funny how an ideal product is full of "NO"s)
Knowing Bryston's solid reputation, I would buy that in a heartbeat. If Naim comes up with one that does not cost my arms and legs, I would buy that instead of the Bryston in a heartbeat.
I do not think I am the one either.
This has been discussed ad nauseum. I can also flat line 2 different preamp outs by inverting and level match but do they sound the same and is that test repeatable with every PC, drive etc. etc. That test was done with Wavelab. What do you think I used to use for rips when I became dissatisfied with Itunes and there was no HDX?quote:Originally posted by JYOW:
I use draconian not in a negative sense, I also used the word heroic to indicate that it was a lot of efforts done by capable engineers for s solution to a problems that do not need to be there had they not exist in the first place.
I did not change the discussion to the complexity required to make an HDX, that was the very gist of my argument.
When you say erroneous are you saying that noise is not an issue with the transport/hard disk/touch screen... etc?
The studios test that I mentioned is not to show what a PC is capable of. Sorry I did not explain properly. It was an experiment done by a very objective studio engineer Kent Poon who is associated with Weiss Engineering and previously dCS. He compared a rip using iTunes and a properly set up EAC rip, captured the waveform, inverted the two waveforms and add the two together, and he got exactly a flat line to prove the two rips are identical.
What that indicated is that despite the well recognized effort of EAC to ensure a perfect rip, a garden variety ripper like iTunes man produced a rip that was identical.
Not that the error correction efforts do not matter, just that for some rips it produces the same result. So all that effort may not be that important for healthy CDs.
My own experience after ripping thousands of CDs is that if a CD has error, most of the time EAC could not correct it anyway, sometimes looping for days on end, and sometimes the end result was just as bad with the noisy part still in existent.
I really am not trying to bitch and moan and you should not have to get defensive with my ranting, not trying to win anything here. If I did not care for naim and its products I would not bother. I would for example care less about ranting in a Bryston forum or a Linn forum for that matter.
Still the best sounding program I've heard for playback also. I really don't want this to turn into a rip discussion. It's been beaten to death and I think Naim has a clue as to what's happening there. We can agree to disagree and that the PDB-1 is not a streamer. 
I am personally a huge .wav advocate and for those like me, rippng and organization via the Naim HDXish units is an undeniable pleasure. Also, don't discount the Unitiserve because it has Uniti in the designation. It will use the same PCI and similar firmware as the HDX.quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:quote:Originally posted by JYOW:
So unless they are the dumbest engineers in the world, they would not put all those networking capability there and forgot streaming access would they?
Yes. Read the document. You can only use the network to load the attached USB drive. They aren't the dumbest engineers in the world though. Someone somewhere in BP is.
Unfortunately, the engineers are making the calls. 
quote:Originally posted by js:quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JYOW:
So unless they are the dumbest engineers in the world, they would not put all those networking capability there and forgot streaming access would they?
Yes. Read the document. You can only use the network to load the attached USB drive. They aren't the dumbest engineers in the world though. Someone somewhere in BP is.
Unfortunately, the engineers aren't making the calls. corrected
Well, there's two different tests here - inverting a digital signal and comparing and inverting an analog(ue) signal and comparing. Digits is digits (jitter excepted) and if they are the same, they are the same. Flatlining two preamps is different. What sensitivity would you have the 'scopes set at? You can get a flatline at one reading, increase the sensitivity and it will be jumping all around the place. Plug that into a power amp and it'll be magnified. Just as Naim make power supplies that have a certain "stiffness" to the voltage value, they aren't perfect - you can see it on a 'scope if you turn up the sensitivity. Naim power supplies can be improved on in terms of voltage stability and this will change the sound. Whether for good or bad is another matter....quote:Originally posted by js:
This has been discussed ad nauseum. I can also flat line 2 different preamp outs by inverting and level match but do they sound the same and is that test repeatable with every PC, drive etc. etc.
Yup. My guessquote:It's been beaten to death and I think Naim has a clue as to what's happening there.
would be that they consider a bit perfect rip a bit perfect rip, whether it comes from EAC or the HDX. As someone's said on another thread, the HDX will appeal to the non-PC crowd. The PC crowd will just roll their own. Bits really are bits until you convert them back to analog(ue) where jitter comes into the equation. Either that or I'm paid very well for doing stuff that works just by magic - and I didn't even know I was a magician
I can't remember if it was a bit comparison or analog waveform comparison but itterations have been done to show both sides and if you get a bit correct on Itunes on one machine, it doesn't necesarily mean it will be the same on another. Naim have never said that you couldn't get a proper rip from a PC and neither have I. Just that it's not plug and play and we know that moving around wav can be an issue. Look, this is not where this thread sould be going and I'm happy if people rip via DB or EAC etc. When I have access, I'll use the Naim to rip and store. Don't knock it unless you've tried it. It really is a pleasure by comparison.
Could be worse, it could be managers or politicians then we'd be in a bigger mess. And I bet none of 'em could rip a CD.quote:Originally posted by js:quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:
... They aren't the dumbest engineers in the world though. Someone somewhere in BP is.
Shame the DAS connection on the Bryston is USB rather than eSATA.
As I detest PCs having to use one day in and day out at work - I'm happy to use a non-PC; unfortunately the HDX means I have to give some of my hard-earned to Grates' lot - so no thanks. I have just read the UnitiServe also has dark empire software on it, which is a huge disappointment.
quote:Originally posted by Andy S:
As someone's said on another thread, the HDX will appeal to the non-PC crowd. The PC crowd will just roll their own.
Andy I would not agree with that statement. There are people like myself who own an HDX, who are very capable of computer set-up, ripping,installing/using firewire etc...
However, when I look at the whole picture, for me the Naim integrated solution offers great performance, easy set-up, a terrific interface for managing my music, and takes the guesswork out of the equation specifically wrt the ripping process. The only computer management I have to do is to convert downloads in flac to wav and add them to my NAS and then go into the Naim DTC, rescan the NAS to add them to the HDX shared music folders and add the album artwork to the properties. That's about all the computer work I want to do. The rest of the time is spent listening to the music.
On the other hand there are so many variables to consider, and from what I've seen posted on this forum from the inception of the DA Forum that IMO only a small minority of the "PC crowd" actually get it right.
quote:Originally posted by js:
I can't remember if it was a bit comparison or analog waveform comparison but itterations have been done to show both sides and if you get a bit correct on Itunes on one machine, it doesn't necesarily mean it will be the same on another. Naim have never said that you couldn't get a proper rip from a PC and neither have I. Just that it's not plug and play and we know that moving around wav can be an issue. Look, this is not where this thread sould be going and I'm happy if people rip via DB or EAC etc. When I have access, I'll use the Naim to rip and store. Don't knock it unless you've tried it. It really is a pleasure by comparison.
It may be a pleasure to use for people who has never done a rip before - i.e. the Luddites. However, some of us have already spent years ripping and that feature would be kind of redundant. Anyway I should slide over to the dealer and have them show me how the HDX can improve on perfection. If only they had it set up.
js,quote:Originally posted by js:
and we know that moving around wav can be an issue.
I agree with 80% of what you say, then you make an outlandish claim that just begs for a reply
Can you show me where anyone has shown that "moving around wav" can be an issue (I am reading that as copying to/from places and keeping it totally digital)?