Another HDX lands in the West Country
Posted by: Harry on 12 March 2010
I don’t know if I can really say anything that hasn’t been said already. Out of the box it sounds really smooth and sophisticated but it’s early days. Having spent some time reading about network requirements etc. it came as a heart sink moment when the first ripped album failed to display cover art. All other information was displayed and accurate. Then a synapse went off. It was a limited edition Japanese issue – of which I have many. So I followed up with a bog standard High Street purchased CD and sure enough the cover art came down.
Nipping round to the PC and installing the DTC had the cover art up in a flash. The NAS was found with the pre installed network share, which I was able to convert into a music store without flicking through the manual. All in all, it was an absolute doddle to set up and it’s sounding good already. An S-Video cable took care of displaying the UI on the telly so it’s now just a matter of programming the multi function remote. Oh yeah, and ripping about 700 CDs. I may be gone some time.
I will be running the HDX alongside a retro modded CDX2 though the Naim DAC and will report my views if any are interested.
Nipping round to the PC and installing the DTC had the cover art up in a flash. The NAS was found with the pre installed network share, which I was able to convert into a music store without flicking through the manual. All in all, it was an absolute doddle to set up and it’s sounding good already. An S-Video cable took care of displaying the UI on the telly so it’s now just a matter of programming the multi function remote. Oh yeah, and ripping about 700 CDs. I may be gone some time.
I will be running the HDX alongside a retro modded CDX2 though the Naim DAC and will report my views if any are interested.
Posted on: 12 March 2010 by gone
I think a lot of people would be interested. Look forward to your comments
Cheers
John
Cheers
John
Posted on: 16 March 2010 by Harry
I have one criticism. It’s trivial. The loading draw really is a piece of cheap brittle crap. Very un Naim like. Admittedly its sole function is to draw the disk into the machine where the high quality transport and laser assembly take over. It is preferable to a roller slot which will sooner or later damage a disk. It’s just unseemly. And that’s it. There is nothing more to criticise. After less than a week running in it sounds poised and effortless, yet grippy and very punchy. It’s like a V8. If the sound is going to “improve” over the next few weeks I can’t wait to hear how it turns out.
Textural and spacial characteristics sound familiar and have doubtless been inherited in part from the DAC. The signature (such as I am familiar with it) comes through. The sound stage is very big and as 3D as anything I’ve heard from a green and black box. But the music is whole. Bass reach is considerable, more than on the DAC’d CDX2. Everything else sounds about on par except for the size of the stage, which is a space you feel you can walk into and around. Detail abounds. Voices sound even more “real” and are projected accurately into their own space in which they can live and breathe. Of course, it’s dependent on the recording. I have been tempted more than once to get up and walk around the back of a vocalist or guitar player. That it can do this without collapsing into a holographic HiFi processed cheese soundscape is rather clever IMO. What will they think of next?
In terms of voicing and ease of presentation (without softening and dumbing down) the HDX sounds more like my memory of the rather wonderful CDS3. I’m not going to open that can of worms – I’m a big CDS3 fan and I’m not putting the HDX up as its logical successor. But it might be a real alternative if your circumstances and/or plans go beyond listening to only CDs at only one location. The HDX with DAC and XPS2 is up to the job. No doubt in my mind. The only way to know for sure will be to run them side by side. That won’t happen here. But the CDX2 through the DAC will run concomitantly and when the novelty has worn off I expect I’ll put my critical hat on. I have a strong feeling that the CDX2 won’t be up to it, although I’m willing to run it for months and years rather than going with a knee jerk conclusion based on a dozen CDs. It could be they both have something uniquely special to offer. My ears will know in time.
117 CDs ripped so far. I suppose that when the collection is stored I will spend less time looking at the flimsy loading drawer and will forget about it. I have quite a few Japanese edition CDs, many of these being LP replicas. I love to admire them (as well as listen to them) but it has been driven home harder than ever that the process of actually pulling them out and playing them is very fiddly. TBH I won’t miss it. A couple of no shows on artist and track information and a dozen failures to come up with cover art so far - all for Japanese editions. Easily fixed with the DTC. I have all my music on Music Collector so browsing for cover art is a snap. One incomplete rip so far on a Link Wray album where the last track didn’t go over after 22 minutes of ripping, but the previous 24 tracks all made it intact. I gave up re ripping after the third attempt. I wasn’t too bothered about the track in question anyway. The CD is relatively new and unmarked. If this sort of thing crops up regularly I will enquire. The casing can vibrate strongly during ripping, I put this down to less than perfectly round or flat disks. They all ripped OK despite the HDX doing a good impression of something resembling at worst a precision engineered pneumatic drill and at best a marital aid on its lowest setting.
Although I took time to download and read all the manuals and make preparation for network connection and NAS, I was pleased at how easily the HDX slotted into the virtual space I made for it. I had envisaged some grinding and sucking of teeth but none transpired. The hardest part was setting up the network bridge which took three attempts, but this was done a week before the HDX arrived. As was setting up the ReadyNAS Duo with 2 500GB drives. A little bit of preparation went a long way towards an easy install and setting up a secondary music store. I also had a lead from the telly going to the rack for the off board monitor, which just plugged in and worked. The ground came switched to floating and this sounds just fine. The novelty of doing everything from the sofa has not worn off and is unlikely to. I have a MX-850 remote with punch through to the amp set for volume and mute so it really is turning out to be everything I had hoped for in the operation and usability stakes. The iPhone App is like the device on which it sits. Ultimately frivolous but beautifully presented, slick in operation and fun to use. It’s a toy I couldn’t resist, I don’t really need it, but as streaming becomes a real medium term goal it will come into its own.
So that’s the early nuts and bolts of it. In future I will concentrate on sound quality and musical enjoyment unless any operational stuff comes up. In next couple of weeks I may try some HDX versus CDX2 comparisons although my time is biased very much towards ripping at the moment. But it will happen. I’m particularly interested to see how a ripped HDCD (which I assume will be treated like a regular CD) sounds compared to the disk being decoded in the CDP. And if what I’ve always considered to be “difficult” recordings remain ubiquitously challenging or shine stronger depending on the source component. The HDX is a very strong package. It should be for the money I suppose. I should get some proper high res music too. Problem is nothing appeals and for my tastes the selection remains thin at the moment. i doubt that will last.
Textural and spacial characteristics sound familiar and have doubtless been inherited in part from the DAC. The signature (such as I am familiar with it) comes through. The sound stage is very big and as 3D as anything I’ve heard from a green and black box. But the music is whole. Bass reach is considerable, more than on the DAC’d CDX2. Everything else sounds about on par except for the size of the stage, which is a space you feel you can walk into and around. Detail abounds. Voices sound even more “real” and are projected accurately into their own space in which they can live and breathe. Of course, it’s dependent on the recording. I have been tempted more than once to get up and walk around the back of a vocalist or guitar player. That it can do this without collapsing into a holographic HiFi processed cheese soundscape is rather clever IMO. What will they think of next?
In terms of voicing and ease of presentation (without softening and dumbing down) the HDX sounds more like my memory of the rather wonderful CDS3. I’m not going to open that can of worms – I’m a big CDS3 fan and I’m not putting the HDX up as its logical successor. But it might be a real alternative if your circumstances and/or plans go beyond listening to only CDs at only one location. The HDX with DAC and XPS2 is up to the job. No doubt in my mind. The only way to know for sure will be to run them side by side. That won’t happen here. But the CDX2 through the DAC will run concomitantly and when the novelty has worn off I expect I’ll put my critical hat on. I have a strong feeling that the CDX2 won’t be up to it, although I’m willing to run it for months and years rather than going with a knee jerk conclusion based on a dozen CDs. It could be they both have something uniquely special to offer. My ears will know in time.
117 CDs ripped so far. I suppose that when the collection is stored I will spend less time looking at the flimsy loading drawer and will forget about it. I have quite a few Japanese edition CDs, many of these being LP replicas. I love to admire them (as well as listen to them) but it has been driven home harder than ever that the process of actually pulling them out and playing them is very fiddly. TBH I won’t miss it. A couple of no shows on artist and track information and a dozen failures to come up with cover art so far - all for Japanese editions. Easily fixed with the DTC. I have all my music on Music Collector so browsing for cover art is a snap. One incomplete rip so far on a Link Wray album where the last track didn’t go over after 22 minutes of ripping, but the previous 24 tracks all made it intact. I gave up re ripping after the third attempt. I wasn’t too bothered about the track in question anyway. The CD is relatively new and unmarked. If this sort of thing crops up regularly I will enquire. The casing can vibrate strongly during ripping, I put this down to less than perfectly round or flat disks. They all ripped OK despite the HDX doing a good impression of something resembling at worst a precision engineered pneumatic drill and at best a marital aid on its lowest setting.
Although I took time to download and read all the manuals and make preparation for network connection and NAS, I was pleased at how easily the HDX slotted into the virtual space I made for it. I had envisaged some grinding and sucking of teeth but none transpired. The hardest part was setting up the network bridge which took three attempts, but this was done a week before the HDX arrived. As was setting up the ReadyNAS Duo with 2 500GB drives. A little bit of preparation went a long way towards an easy install and setting up a secondary music store. I also had a lead from the telly going to the rack for the off board monitor, which just plugged in and worked. The ground came switched to floating and this sounds just fine. The novelty of doing everything from the sofa has not worn off and is unlikely to. I have a MX-850 remote with punch through to the amp set for volume and mute so it really is turning out to be everything I had hoped for in the operation and usability stakes. The iPhone App is like the device on which it sits. Ultimately frivolous but beautifully presented, slick in operation and fun to use. It’s a toy I couldn’t resist, I don’t really need it, but as streaming becomes a real medium term goal it will come into its own.
So that’s the early nuts and bolts of it. In future I will concentrate on sound quality and musical enjoyment unless any operational stuff comes up. In next couple of weeks I may try some HDX versus CDX2 comparisons although my time is biased very much towards ripping at the moment. But it will happen. I’m particularly interested to see how a ripped HDCD (which I assume will be treated like a regular CD) sounds compared to the disk being decoded in the CDP. And if what I’ve always considered to be “difficult” recordings remain ubiquitously challenging or shine stronger depending on the source component. The HDX is a very strong package. It should be for the money I suppose. I should get some proper high res music too. Problem is nothing appeals and for my tastes the selection remains thin at the moment. i doubt that will last.
Posted on: 16 March 2010 by rich46
quote:Originally posted by Harry K:
I have one criticism. It’s trivial. The loading draw really is a piece of cheap brittle crap. Very un Naim like. Admittedly its sole function is to draw the disk into the machine where the high quality transport and laser assembly take over. It is preferable to a roller slot which will sooner or later damage a disk. It’s just unseemly. And that’s it. There is nothing more to criticise. After less than a week running in it sounds poised and effortless, yet grippy and very punchy. It’s like a V8. If the sound is going to “improve” over the next few weeks I can’t wait to hear how it turns out.
Textural and spacial characteristics sound familiar and have doubtless been inherited in part from the DAC. The signature (such as I am familiar with it) comes through. The sound stage is very big and as 3D as anything I’ve heard from a green and black box. But the music is whole. Bass reach is considerable, more than on the DAC’d CDX2. Everything else sounds about on par except for the size of the stage, which is a space you feel you can walk into and around. Detail abounds. Voices sound even more “real” and are projected accurately into their own space in which they can live and breathe. Of course, it’s dependent on the recording. I have been tempted more than once to get up and walk around the back of a vocalist or guitar player. That it can do this without collapsing into a holographic HiFi processed cheese soundscape is rather clever IMO. What will they think of next?
In terms of voicing and ease of presentation (without softening and dumbing down) the HDX sounds more like my memory of the rather wonderful CDS3. I’m not going to open that can of worms – I’m a big CDS3 fan and I’m not putting the HDX up as its logical successor. But it might be a real alternative if your circumstances and/or plans go beyond listening to only CDs at only one location. The HDX with DAC and XPS2 is up to the job. No doubt in my mind. The only way to know for sure will be to run them side by side. That won’t happen here. But the CDX2 through the DAC will run concomitantly and when the novelty has worn off I expect I’ll put my critical hat on. I have a strong feeling that the CDX2 won’t be up to it, although I’m willing to run it for months and years rather than going with a knee jerk conclusion based on a dozen CDs. It could be they both have something uniquely special to offer. My ears will know in time.
117 CDs ripped so far. I suppose that when the collection is stored I will spend less time looking at the flimsy loading drawer and will forget about it. I have quite a few Japanese edition CDs, many of these being LP replicas. I love to admire them (as well as listen to them) but it has been driven home harder than ever that the process of actually pulling them out and playing them is very fiddly. TBH I won’t miss it. A couple of no shows on artist and track information and a dozen failures to come up with cover art so far - all for Japanese editions. Easily fixed with the DTC. I have all my music on Music Collector so browsing for cover art is a snap. One incomplete rip so far on a Link Wray album where the last track didn’t go over after 22 minutes of ripping, but the previous 24 tracks all made it intact. I gave up re ripping after the third attempt. I wasn’t too bothered about the track in question anyway. The CD is relatively new and unmarked. If this sort of thing crops up regularly I will enquire. The casing can vibrate strongly during ripping, I put this down to less than perfectly round or flat disks. They all ripped OK despite the HDX doing a good impression of something resembling at worst a precision engineered pneumatic drill and at best a marital aid on its lowest setting.
Although I took time to download and read all the manuals and make preparation for network connection and NAS, I was pleased at how easily the HDX slotted into the virtual space I made for it. I had envisaged some grinding and sucking of teeth but none transpired. The hardest part was setting up the network bridge which took three attempts, but this was done a week before the HDX arrived. As was setting up the ReadyNAS Duo with 2 500GB drives. A little bit of preparation went a long way towards an easy install and setting up a secondary music store. I also had a lead from the telly going to the rack for the off board monitor, which just plugged in and worked. The ground came switched to floating and this sounds just fine. The novelty of doing everything from the sofa has not worn off and is unlikely to. I have a MX-850 remote with punch through to the amp set for volume and mute so it really is turning out to be everything I had hoped for in the operation and usability stakes. The iPhone App is like the device on which it sits. Ultimately frivolous but beautifully presented, slick in operation and fun to use. It’s a toy I couldn’t resist, I don’t really need it, but as streaming becomes a real medium term goal it will come into its own.
So that’s the early nuts and bolts of it. In future I will concentrate on sound quality and musical enjoyment unless any operational stuff comes up. In next couple of weeks I may try some HDX versus CDX2 comparisons although my time is biased very much towards ripping at the moment. But it will happen. I’m particularly interested to see how a ripped HDCD (which I assume will be treated like a regular CD) sounds compared to the disk being decoded in the CDP. And if what I’ve always considered to be “difficult” recordings remain ubiquitously challenging or shine stronger depending on the source component. The HDX is a very strong package. It should be for the money I suppose. I should get some proper high res music too. Problem is nothing appeals and for my tastes the selection remains thin at the moment. i doubt that will last.
good look with ripping just completed 2600 and it was apain,
really cant see high res stanard releases being common for quite awhile ,some suggest that its 2 years away. and alot of stock cds that companies want to sell.
Posted on: 17 March 2010 by pcstockton
Nice post. Thanks for your thoughts. It gives everyone an idea of its place in the world.
I would also be interested in how it rips an HDCD. I am guessing it cannot.
I would also be interested in how it rips an HDCD. I am guessing it cannot.
Posted on: 17 March 2010 by Ultramanzero
Looking forward to your comparison between HDX and CDX2. Regardng the incomplete ripping, I have similar experience, out of the 300 CDs that have been ripped so far 4 to 5 of them cannot be ripped completely, problem occurs in last track or two. Those discs do not have visible scratch or damage.
I have reported to Naim for this as they claimed partial rip is rare to them.
I have reported to Naim for this as they claimed partial rip is rare to them.
Posted on: 17 March 2010 by rich46
make a copy of defect disc then rip that is seems to cure problem
Posted on: 17 March 2010 by Ultramanzero
Thanks for the tip, will try that out tonight
Posted on: 17 March 2010 by Harry
Thank you all. I will report in due course on the HDX vs CDX2 situation (according to my ears) if there is anything to report. I’m certain HDCD information won’t go over in a rip. I will make a copy of the partially ripped CD when I get a chance.
Posted on: 17 March 2010 by Aleg
quote:Originally posted by Harry K:
Thank you all. I will report in due course on the HDX vs CDX2 situation (according to my ears) if there is anything to report. I’m certain HDCD information won’t go over in a rip. I will make a copy of the partially ripped CD when I get a chance.
When ripped on a PC, you can have dbPoweramp Music Converter convert the HDCD information. You will get a 44.1/24-bit file.
Of these 24-bits only 20-bits are actually used (16-bit CD + 4 extra bits from the HDCD extension)
-
aleg
Posted on: 17 March 2010 by Ultramanzero
It really works this way, thanks rich46
Posted on: 17 March 2010 by Harry
Aleg, damn interesting. Thanks.
Posted on: 18 March 2010 by crackie
Very interesting write up Harry, thank you. Is your review based on a bare HDX, HDX / DAC , or a bit of both?
Can you or anyone else tell me if the new software version allows track delete now ? We all have CD's with only two or three tracks we ever listen to, from what I have read the manual says you still have to rip the whole CD first. Can unwanted tracks be deleted straight after this ?
I am still in the undecided camp in regards to a HDX purchase.
Cheers
Can you or anyone else tell me if the new software version allows track delete now ? We all have CD's with only two or three tracks we ever listen to, from what I have read the manual says you still have to rip the whole CD first. Can unwanted tracks be deleted straight after this ?
I am still in the undecided camp in regards to a HDX purchase.
Cheers
Posted on: 18 March 2010 by Harry
No track delete unless I’ve missed it in the small print. I have many albums that never get listened to completely but I still want all the music stored. To avoid hearing unwanted tracks (but keeping them on file just in case you ever change your mind) it’s a simple matter to make a play list with the tracks you want. Then by selecting the play list rather than the album you can listen to the shortened album. And of course, you can add anything you want to a play list so the potential for slicing dicing and compiling is as endless as your collection of ripped CD tracks. And you can use a track more than once. Whilst being criticised in some circles for being merely an expensive PC with a Naim front plate, this is where the PC based capabilities of the HDX really come into their own with the supplied software and UI. There may be less expensive ways of doing it but none more logical and easy to master.
I’m running the 500Gb HDX with SW 1.5 into the N-DAC (also still running in) powered by an XPS2. The latter being a legacy component from running the CDX2. As far as purchase goes, I have always been undecided. Helen has wanted one since first seeing and hearing it and I wasn’t in the least bit unimpressed by its sonic performance compared to our CDX2/XPS2. The arrival of the DAC made it possible to upgrade and keep the CDX2 for me and to give Helen her coveted “Audiophile iPod”. Will it eventually displace the CDX2? Too early to say. No harm in running both, I might as well get some mileage out of the retro mod to allow it to go with the DAC – a huge upgrade in its own right.
I’m running the 500Gb HDX with SW 1.5 into the N-DAC (also still running in) powered by an XPS2. The latter being a legacy component from running the CDX2. As far as purchase goes, I have always been undecided. Helen has wanted one since first seeing and hearing it and I wasn’t in the least bit unimpressed by its sonic performance compared to our CDX2/XPS2. The arrival of the DAC made it possible to upgrade and keep the CDX2 for me and to give Helen her coveted “Audiophile iPod”. Will it eventually displace the CDX2? Too early to say. No harm in running both, I might as well get some mileage out of the retro mod to allow it to go with the DAC – a huge upgrade in its own right.
Posted on: 18 March 2010 by Harry
Oh, hang on. I bet tracks can be deleted using the desk top client. I wouldn’t want to do so but when the HDX is powered up tomorrow I will check. Unless someone else gets there before.
Posted on: 19 March 2010 by Harry
And they can.
Posted on: 19 March 2010 by crackie
Thank's Harry.
Posted on: 14 April 2010 by Harry
I’m up to over 500 albums and have been ripping more than listening until this week, when work, commitments, spare time etc. have coalesced to allow me some quality sofa time with what should be a well run in HDX and DAC. Some foibles have presented themselves. The HDX will overwrite a previously ripped CD which sounds good until you come up against two CDs with identical artists and titles, or three in the case of Peter Gabriel’s first three albums. Easily overcome by renaming after ripping. I was in a set rhythm and didn’t notice the absence of the other two albums after ripping the third. But it’s all better now.
I’ve also come up against some issues with music ripped on the HDX, renamed, then moved to NAS. It can vanish from view. I can see it on the network but the HDX can’t. I lost 16 albums. Except I didn’t. But no amount of interrogating the HDX from a variety of screens would show them. CDs ripped directly to NAS and renamed in their remote location remain visible and accessible. I also took the precaution of renaming them on the HDX screen, not via the DTC. It is possible that the DTC is the culprit. I got a half ripped copy of Eagle’s Hell Freezes Over and deleted it in the DTC. This left me with an Eagles listing in the DTC under Artists, with no albums associated, that I cannot remove. The Artist listing does not show up on the HDX menus. Moreover, subsequent re rips of the CD, although achieved seemingly correctly with no errors, results in no album visible on the HDX, in the DTC or on the network. Strange. I think we have some software issues here.
Through the DAC with XPS2 the HDX is quite wonderful. Music seems to possess that organic, believable texture, free from stresses and strains that I remember so well from the CDS3. Plenty of grip and timing. Tremendous detail and separation. Yet smooth, somehow real, full of body and texture but not soft. Placement of instruments and vocals is very well defined (I hesitate to say accurate because I wasn’t at the mixing desk in the studio) and places them in space where they can build and decay without being swamped. It’s a good rabbit to pull out of a hat when this can be achieved without dissecting the sound stage to bits. Although not unheard in my system to date, height and depth of instruments and vocals is marked. I could quote a hundred examples. I’ll cite one. Lou Reed’s Walk On The Wild Side. The bass has incredibly believable texture and timbre complete with vibrations, it is positioned in front of the kick drum but it is more forward in the sound stage so that it appears nearer and can exist without merging with the bass behind it. The singing girls used to get louder but I know from listening to a 500/SL2 system at a Summer Road Show that they actually step forward with each doo da doo, and now they do in my listening room. Cue hairs on back of neck. The sax front is an entity that you can walk around the back of. OK I haven’t tried it but hopefully you get the drift. Generally speaking, the increased height and depth separation brings a new dimension which is so obvious yet has been missing for the most part. Drummers who reach up and lean forward. Bass guitars with air beneath them, bass pedals planted firmly on the ground. And so on and so on. And some very strange positioning of licks and fills on some albums, notably Prog Rock. Steve Howe dangling from the ceiling? Sounds like.
Memory is a funny thing. So I’m not going to make any bold claims based on a subjective sample of one. Let’s just say that in voicing and musical ability this set up strongly reminds me of the CDS3s I’ve sampled down the years. Given the comparative prices they should not be poles apart. I’d love to do an A/B but it’s academic for me. I’m committed to the HDX and short of a lottery win (also academic since I don’t do it!) I can’t see the point of running both (assuming the academic audition showed any difference still worth buying into, which I personally doubt).
Most of how the music is presented is as per my report in Hi-Fi Corner on the CDX2 with DAC. But the voicing is more natural, easy on the ear yet not so warm and fuzzy that it can’t make you sit bolt upright. Like I said, a clever presentation to pull off. This leads to the obvious conclusion that a lot of the detail, texture, and particularly sound staging eminates from the DAC. It’s rather superb. But can I hear a difference when comparing tracks played through the CDX2 with the HDX (through the same DAC? Yes I can. It would be wrong to speak in terms of good and bad. I happen to prefer the presentation of the HDX. The CDX2 is more top forward. No doubt about it. It makes the music sound busier and initially presents an impression of vitality and bite. But it’s less enjoyable to listen to for me. It’s saving grace is that it decodes HDCD and the while the HDX makes a good job of playing rips of HDCDs, the somewhat heavy, bass rich mix of most HDCDs doesn’t really make sense until the CDX2 gets hold of it. I have quite a few HDCDs.
I have also compared ripped disks played back from the HDX HDD versus rips to the ReadyNas Duo that I run. I can hear absolutely no difference. At first I thought the NAS sounded better. But if you listen intently for differences you will hear them. I had to stop analysing and relax. Just sit back and enjoy the music. This took some doing. I was still inclined to go into analysis mode. But after three days of playing ping pong with 10 ripped CDs , I am confident that there is no difference. The same 10 CDs were also spun in the CDX2.
For what that’s worth.
I’ve also come up against some issues with music ripped on the HDX, renamed, then moved to NAS. It can vanish from view. I can see it on the network but the HDX can’t. I lost 16 albums. Except I didn’t. But no amount of interrogating the HDX from a variety of screens would show them. CDs ripped directly to NAS and renamed in their remote location remain visible and accessible. I also took the precaution of renaming them on the HDX screen, not via the DTC. It is possible that the DTC is the culprit. I got a half ripped copy of Eagle’s Hell Freezes Over and deleted it in the DTC. This left me with an Eagles listing in the DTC under Artists, with no albums associated, that I cannot remove. The Artist listing does not show up on the HDX menus. Moreover, subsequent re rips of the CD, although achieved seemingly correctly with no errors, results in no album visible on the HDX, in the DTC or on the network. Strange. I think we have some software issues here.
Through the DAC with XPS2 the HDX is quite wonderful. Music seems to possess that organic, believable texture, free from stresses and strains that I remember so well from the CDS3. Plenty of grip and timing. Tremendous detail and separation. Yet smooth, somehow real, full of body and texture but not soft. Placement of instruments and vocals is very well defined (I hesitate to say accurate because I wasn’t at the mixing desk in the studio) and places them in space where they can build and decay without being swamped. It’s a good rabbit to pull out of a hat when this can be achieved without dissecting the sound stage to bits. Although not unheard in my system to date, height and depth of instruments and vocals is marked. I could quote a hundred examples. I’ll cite one. Lou Reed’s Walk On The Wild Side. The bass has incredibly believable texture and timbre complete with vibrations, it is positioned in front of the kick drum but it is more forward in the sound stage so that it appears nearer and can exist without merging with the bass behind it. The singing girls used to get louder but I know from listening to a 500/SL2 system at a Summer Road Show that they actually step forward with each doo da doo, and now they do in my listening room. Cue hairs on back of neck. The sax front is an entity that you can walk around the back of. OK I haven’t tried it but hopefully you get the drift. Generally speaking, the increased height and depth separation brings a new dimension which is so obvious yet has been missing for the most part. Drummers who reach up and lean forward. Bass guitars with air beneath them, bass pedals planted firmly on the ground. And so on and so on. And some very strange positioning of licks and fills on some albums, notably Prog Rock. Steve Howe dangling from the ceiling? Sounds like.
Memory is a funny thing. So I’m not going to make any bold claims based on a subjective sample of one. Let’s just say that in voicing and musical ability this set up strongly reminds me of the CDS3s I’ve sampled down the years. Given the comparative prices they should not be poles apart. I’d love to do an A/B but it’s academic for me. I’m committed to the HDX and short of a lottery win (also academic since I don’t do it!) I can’t see the point of running both (assuming the academic audition showed any difference still worth buying into, which I personally doubt).
Most of how the music is presented is as per my report in Hi-Fi Corner on the CDX2 with DAC. But the voicing is more natural, easy on the ear yet not so warm and fuzzy that it can’t make you sit bolt upright. Like I said, a clever presentation to pull off. This leads to the obvious conclusion that a lot of the detail, texture, and particularly sound staging eminates from the DAC. It’s rather superb. But can I hear a difference when comparing tracks played through the CDX2 with the HDX (through the same DAC? Yes I can. It would be wrong to speak in terms of good and bad. I happen to prefer the presentation of the HDX. The CDX2 is more top forward. No doubt about it. It makes the music sound busier and initially presents an impression of vitality and bite. But it’s less enjoyable to listen to for me. It’s saving grace is that it decodes HDCD and the while the HDX makes a good job of playing rips of HDCDs, the somewhat heavy, bass rich mix of most HDCDs doesn’t really make sense until the CDX2 gets hold of it. I have quite a few HDCDs.
I have also compared ripped disks played back from the HDX HDD versus rips to the ReadyNas Duo that I run. I can hear absolutely no difference. At first I thought the NAS sounded better. But if you listen intently for differences you will hear them. I had to stop analysing and relax. Just sit back and enjoy the music. This took some doing. I was still inclined to go into analysis mode. But after three days of playing ping pong with 10 ripped CDs , I am confident that there is no difference. The same 10 CDs were also spun in the CDX2.
For what that’s worth.
Posted on: 14 April 2010 by azjya
Thanks - please keep posting - your comments are very useful.
Posted on: 14 April 2010 by Aleg
quote:Originally posted by Harry K:
...
It’s saving grace is that it decodes HDCD and the while the HDX makes a good job of playing rips of HDCDs, the somewhat heavy, bass rich mix of most HDCDs doesn’t really make sense until the CDX2 gets hold of it. I have quite a few HDCDs.
...
Harry
I don't own an HDX so don't know for sure, but would it be possible to access the HDCD rips from from 'outside'?
What I was thinking about is using e.g. dBPoweramp on a PC with the HDCD-option switched on, to convert the 16-bit HDCD rips to extended 24-bit files.
You can then enjoy the full glory of HDCD since the HDX can play 24-bit files.
-
aleg
Posted on: 14 April 2010 by pcstockton
Aleg,
Sorry to burst your bubble but the 24 bit files sourced from 16 bit CDs will sound identical. You can magically make them hi res just by encoding them to 24 bit.
Who knows.... they may even sound worse.
-p
Sorry to burst your bubble but the 24 bit files sourced from 16 bit CDs will sound identical. You can magically make them hi res just by encoding them to 24 bit.
Who knows.... they may even sound worse.
-p
Posted on: 15 April 2010 by Harry
quote:Originally posted by Aleg:quote:Originally posted by Harry K:
...
It’s saving grace is that it decodes HDCD and the while the HDX makes a good job of playing rips of HDCDs, the somewhat heavy, bass rich mix of most HDCDs doesn’t really make sense until the CDX2 gets hold of it. I have quite a few HDCDs.
...
Harry
I don't own an HDX so don't know for sure, but would it be possible to access the HDCD rips from from 'outside'?
What I was thinking about is using e.g. dBPoweramp on a PC with the HDCD-option switched on, to convert the 16-bit HDCD rips to extended 24-bit files.
You can then enjoy the full glory of HDCD since the HDX can play 24-bit files.
-
aleg
My thinking is as above. I have purchased dBPoweramp (for other reasons) and there's no harm in playing with it. In theory they should sound no different to ripped. That's one to look into. Plus USB sticks with the DAC, Hi Res downloads, suddenly we're spoilt for choice. Of course, a lot of it comes down to how well a CD was mastered in the first place. Otherwise how can some CDs sound so good? The Yes back catalogue on HDCD is a very mixed bag but every album has something to offer although some are superb and some are patchy. The CDX2 does a very musical job here but the HDX does tend to bog it down somewhat. Not to the point that it sounds awful but if you have the equipment to try it both ways there is no doubt.
Posted on: 15 April 2010 by Aleg
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:
Aleg,
Sorry to burst your bubble but the 24 bit files sourced from 16 bit CDs will sound identical. You can magically make them hi res just by encoding them to 24 bit.
Who knows.... they may even sound worse.
-p
Patrick
I'll just glue my bubble back together again
We were talking HDCD here and they have 20-bit data if used with a HDCD converter.
So when a HDCD is just ripped to 16-bit, the encoded extra 4-bit of data are still there. So when you pull these ripped 16-bit HDCD through a HDCD converter you will get the 20-bit audio data, all be it in a 24-bit format.
And those 20/24-bit will sound better than the 16-bit.
-
aleg
Posted on: 15 April 2010 by Aleg
quote:Originally posted by Harry K:quote:Originally posted by Aleg:quote:Originally posted by Harry K:
...
It’s saving grace is that it decodes HDCD and the while the HDX makes a good job of playing rips of HDCDs, the somewhat heavy, bass rich mix of most HDCDs doesn’t really make sense until the CDX2 gets hold of it. I have quite a few HDCDs.
...
Harry
I don't own an HDX so don't know for sure, but would it be possible to access the HDCD rips from from 'outside'?
What I was thinking about is using e.g. dBPoweramp on a PC with the HDCD-option switched on, to convert the 16-bit HDCD rips to extended 24-bit files.
You can then enjoy the full glory of HDCD since the HDX can play 24-bit files.
-
aleg
My thinking is as above. I have purchased dBPoweramp (for other reasons) and there's no harm in playing about even if you're not going to pull 24bit off the CD. In theory they should sound no different to ripped. That's one to look into. Plus USB sticks with the DAC, Hi Res downloads, suddenly we're spoilt for choice. Of course, a lot of it comes down to how well a CD was mastered in the first place. Otherwise how can some CDs sound so good? The Yes back catalogue on HDCD is a very mixed bag but every album has something to offer although some are superb and some are patchy. The CDX2 does a very musical job here but the HDX does tend to bog it down somewhat. Not to the point that it sounds awful but if you have the equipment to try it both ways there is no doubt.
Harry
I'm not totaly convinced you got my message that with dBPoweramp you can have the extra 4-bit audio data that has been encoded into an HDCD 16-bit storage out again so you have 20-bit audio data.
I'm not talking about upsampling here, but about extracting the extra 4-bit audio data that has been encoded within the 16-bit HDCD format.
Whether it is better than the CDX2 interpreting the HDCD-encoding? Your ears will tell.
But I know from HDCD's I have then when I extract them to 20-bit and play them through the DAC they sound better than when I play just the unextracted 16-bit of the HDCD.
-
aleg
Posted on: 15 April 2010 by Harry
No Aleg, I don’t think I did get it first time. And I said 24 bit! I should try to wake up before reading and typing. Thank you for this. I will have some fun and post findings.
Posted on: 15 April 2010 by SC
quote:Originally posted by Aleg:
So when a HDCD is just ripped to 16-bit, the encoded extra 4-bit of data are still there.
Really...?? I didn't know this...Just presumed creating a 16bit file was exactly that, a 16bit file.....
Steve.