Cartridge question for the history buffs

p77

Mucho thanks Mark, I wasn't expecting any replies to this one.

I'm surprised that the Rega is the "fluffier" of the two, as no one will accuse a modern Rega as being soft sounding.

cheers,

mike

Hi Mike,

The R100 was produced for Rega by Supex, as were the Arcam 77 Series cartridges.

Bearing in mind that I haven't heard all of them I would say that they are at least physically related in the following order...

Arcam P77 >= Supex SM100E ~= Rega R100 ~= Arcam E77 >= Arcam C77

Your P77 has a Weinz Parabolic stylus profile which is an extended line contact variant. The SM100E and E77 were (obviously) ellipticals whereas the C77 used a conical stylus profile.

If your P77 stylus is still hanging in there then I would suggest that you attempt to source a later magnesium alloy top plated 77 series body for it. The P77Mg was one of the best MMs ever. Arcam themselves may still be able to provide an Mg body as a replacement part. Barring that a want ad on Loot might turn up a dead one for the cost of shipping.

Craig
Encyclopedic History Buff

P77mg? Interesting, I'll keep an eye out.

Have you heard of any of these units?

Garrot

It looks like I could just buy the tip, and plug it into my existing 77 body. Or, perhaps their bodies are Mg'd.
Something I'll seriously consider when I eventually u/g my tt. They're not cheap- 'bout 1000CDN for the OptimGs...

The pictures at Tivoli's site depict the standard plastic mounting plate. I believe that the 77Mg models were retrofitted with the alloy mouting plates somewhere within the UK. GB Engineering perhaps?

Craig

[This message was edited by Craig Best on MONDAY 25 February 2002 at 03:22.]

Mike,
I have been using a Garrott P77 for longer than I care to remember. I have 2 styli both of which have been re-tipped and I was beginning to comtemplate having to replace it when these wear out, but now I may have a way of extending its use.

As you may have guessed I am quite happy with this cartridge. It gives quite a lively presentation of music being fast and dynamic without the hardness some moving magnet cartridges seem to exhibit in the upper mid and treble (IMHO). However it is not as sweet or detailed as the better moving coils. I tend to use it for electronic music while preferring a moving coil for classical and acoustic jazz.

I fear this topic may have been more use to me than you, so once again many thanks.

Mike,

I dug out an old copy of Hi-Fi Answers in which they tested a late pre-production sample of the P77Mg.

Answers stated that both the E77 and P77 were tipped for A&R Cambridge by Expert Pickups. They went on to say that Arcam was going to be providing the 77Mg body for 23 GBP (1986 prices) to existing 77 users. Each of the three Mg versions were intended to be priced at 10 GBP above the corresponding standard version.

Arcam may still have the odd body lying about the place.

Craig

Hey Pete, we're both August 26ers!

quote:

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Pete sed: ...without the hardness some moving magnet cartridges seem to exhibit in the upper mid and treble (IMHO).

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This is precisely how I feel about the P77 after experiences with the Rega and Grado range of MM.
I'm glad you got some use of the topic.

Craig, I was going to argue with you about the merits of putting nice stylii on low end bodies, but your sentence seems to have been edited out of existence

No matter, neither of us have heard the high end Garrots, so we'd be blowing smoke out of our asses anyways. I'm going to flick Arcam an E-mail about this 77mg, but I don't anticipate a response

[This message was edited by Mike Sae on WEDNESDAY 27 February 2002 at 01:44.]

Yes, sorry about the editing. I realised shortly after hitting the post now button that I was reacting to some of the bile that had built up over the 'Wither Naim' backlash to the backlash.

I do enjoy a healthy debate but it seems that some of the more recent contributors have drifted in from rec.audio.assholes. They are like nasty gate crashers at a family reunion. Of course it is good fun to just let them show their ignorance and then point it out to them later on when they inevitably attempt to join the fray.

On the plus side I will be very busy with work for the rest of the week and will get a bit of a break from the forum into the bargain.

BTW, I think that you will find that like Naim, Arcam are a very service oriented business. They still offer repairs and, I believe, even upgrades to their original A60 integrated which hasn't been in production since the late '80s. An Mg body might be a bit of a long shot, but likely worth the minimal effort involved.

Craig

The 77 series cartidges were produced by Arcam not Supex. They used a Japanese sourced body and cantilever and, originally, styli made by Dr. Ernst Weinz in Idar Oberstein, Germany.

When Dr. Weinz unexpectedly died, we were able to source UK made diamond styli from Expert Pickups in the UK. They invented the elliptical stylus for Decca BTW. Expert's diamonds are of top quality and IMO comparable with any in the world.

The Mg body was my idea and was tooled from magnesium alloy in the UK.

If someone is really interested I'll dig around in the garage and see if I have a spare body. A bit of a long shot though.

John Dawson (Arcam)

John,

Welcome to the Naim forum and thanks so much for the clarification re: the 77 series.

Craig

BTW, does Arcam still offer the Plus update/service for the original A60?

[This message was edited by Craig Best on WEDNESDAY 27 February 2002 at 18:09.]

Thanks, John

Much appriciated, but I wouldn't dream of having the Director of Arcam tear apart his garage to find a 30 quid cartridge body for some saddo in the colonies

P.S.

Have you ever thought of starting an Arcam forum on your site? Experience the joy of babysitting hundreds of dodgy hi-fi types all in real-time!

best,

Mike

So many questions guys!

Yes Wyndham Hodgson is the man - a true English gent and a lovely guy. A really talented engineer too.

The PMX10 was based on a Goldring platform with one of WH's styli and (I thought) a rather fetching red body moulding.

If we could dig up the relevant parts of the service manual - and we could - I think we could probably do an A60 to A60 Plus upgrade. We can and do fix these amps on a regular basis (even put new reservoir caps in one for a friend at Christmas).

As to an Arcam Forum - we think about it from time to time and then get sane again :-)

Best wishes to all including Paul and our other friends at Naim.

John Dawson