mac mini + naim DAC : worth the try?

There are quite a few who use the Mac Mini as a source. I find mine to be very versatile and powerful. I use the SuperNait's DAC via SPDIF optical. Files are Apple Lossless all ripped from CDs. I find the quality to be great, but others feel that there are better options for the very best sound quality.

Yes, you can use it without a monitor no problems. Mine is hooked to my TV if I really need to see what is happening, but I hardly ever use that; I use screen sharing from my laptop or the iPod Touch "remote" app. It works a treat!

The iTeleport app in the AppStore (formerly Jaadu VNC) allows screen sharing of a Mac from your iPhone or iPod Touch. This combined with Apple's Remote app will cover 99% of your needs, so, yes, you can run a mini "headless".
John

And how does it sound compared with say a cd5xs into the dac?

Hi R-go

I went from a bare CDX2 to playback from Mac a while ago and for me it was a definite step forward on the upgrade path.

My system: Mac Mini with SSD, clean minimum install of OSX 10.6.2 with Amarra (full product). No other software installed.

Firewire connection to Weiss DAC2.

Weiss connected to Naim 102 to 135’s x 2 to Linn Kabers.

All files are either AIFF ripped from CD using XLD or AIFF/FLAC downloads. Note the FLACS may need to be converted before you can play them depending what software you are using on the Mac.

I use screen sharing to control my headless Mac Mini from my iPhone using Row Remote or Tap Remote iPhone apps. I constantly find it amazing that this is even possible!

I think it has been mentioned somewhere on this forum that USB is preferred to Firewire for sound quality. On my system that would mean adding an Empirical Audio Off Ramp 3 USB Converter or similar. I haven’t tried this option but if anyone has any experience of this I would be grateful for your findings.

Hope this helps

Ian

all,
many thanks for your feedback

Ian,
is there a difference in quality when you use SPDIF instead of firewire to connect to the Weiss DAC2?

have you compared the DAC2 to the naim DAC? (I guess the naim DAC has no firewire port)

last point: soundwise, is it advisable to use SSD instead of classical hard drive?

many thanks
R-go

quote:

Originally posted by R-go:

Ian,
is there a difference in quality when you use SPDIF instead of firewire to connect to the Weiss DAC2?

have you compared the DAC2 to the naim DAC? (I guess the naim DAC has no firewire port)

last point: soundwise, is it advisable to use SSD instead of classical hard drive?

many thanks
R-go

Hi R-go

I haven't tried SPDIF instead of Firewire yet. It is on my "must try" list.

No, I haven't heard a direct comparison between the Weiss and the Naim DAC.

I only went for the SSD in the Mac Mini as it was advised by Amarra for optimum set up so I thought it best to follow their specs as closely as possible.

Regards

Ian

Give these things a go, they are easy enough to try yourself.

I have the USB/Spdif HiFace converter and it's excellent, especially for the money - better than the optical from Mac to Dac which is itself pretty good. I prefer the Firewire overall though, that really delivers superb performance. I have compared the DAC2 with the Naim DAC and they are both very good, I prefer the Weiss to the bare Naim DAC which was the point of trying the Ndac as I'm not into adding power supplies. Besides they elevate the price level considerably, which would bring other DACs of higher cost into the equation. You choose your DR level as ever.

Ian,

As you have Amarra, try the Pure Vinyl player - I have both and prefer the latter, there is an even cheaper version around now too. Either of these players are capable of great results.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:

Ian,

As you have Amarra, try the Pure Vinyl player - I have both and prefer the latter, there is an even cheaper version around now too. Either of these players are capable of great results.

Joe

Hi Joe

Thank you for pointing me to Pure Vinyl and yes, I will definitely give it a try and make the comparison with Amarra.

Regards

Ian

Good luck with it. As ever there are a couple of settings to get right....the hybrid memory in 'preferences' is worth trying either way, for example.

Regards,

Joe

Qs for Joe and Ian - i have downloaded trial versions of both Amarra Mini and Pure Vinyl to try (Mac Mini/SuperNait), and am impressed with the sound of both, but both seem to have flaws.
Amarra - switching between 44.1/16 and 96/24 files eventually brings up an 'auto-switching not available' message, and I have to restart the software. Also, what settings should Audio Midi be on in System Preferences for Amarra?
Pure Vinyl demo seems to lose functionality of the iTouch remote altogether, as if it freezes, which obv isn't workable, is that the norm?
Pity as they do add to the sound quality.

John

quote:

Originally posted by bigfella:

Amarra - switching between 44.1/16 and 96/24 files eventually brings up an 'auto-switching not available' message, and I have to restart the software. Also, what settings should Audio Midi be on in System Preferences for Amarra?
Pure Vinyl demo seems to lose functionality of the iTouch remote altogether, as if it freezes, which obv isn't workable, is that the norm?
Pity as they do add to the sound quality.

John

Hi John

I am using the full version of Amarra and I haven't seen the error message you mentioned to date. An email to their support may offer an explanation.

I have set my Audio Midi settings as per Amarra's recommendations (there are a couple of screen grabs on their site showing these.) I do intend to experiment with these settings when I have the time to see if I can hear any improvements.

I haven't tried Pure Vinyl yet so Joe would be the man to ask.

I don't know if this helps or is relevant to you John but both Tap Remote and Rowmote apps for iPhone have worked flawlessly (so far!) for me in controlling my Mini Mac.

Regards

Ian

quote:

Originally posted by bigfella:

Pure Vinyl demo seems to lose functionality of the iTouch remote altogether, as if it freezes, which obv isn't workable, is that the norm?
Pity as they do add to the sound quality.

John

Hi John,

The only part of iTouch function that doesn't work with PV seems to be the "time elapsed" for the track playing.

All the usual track/album selection forward/back and volume control works fine. No problems. Have a look in "preferences" for the "update track positon" setting and uncheck it (if it's not already).

Also if "hybrid memory" is checked - uncheck that and see what you think.

Otherwise on the PV screen use "memory play" and "upsample" even if your DAC device is set to 44khz for CD rips. I don't have any 96khz (or higher) music apart from the odd demo track. So auto switching sample rates is not something I've played with.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by ianmacd:

I have set my Audio Midi settings as per Amarra's recommendations (there are a couple of screen grabs on their site showing these.) I do intend to experiment with these settings when I have the time to see if I can hear any improvements.


Ian

Thanks Ian I'll give it another go. The documentation just isn't very clear as to whether the Audio Midi settings are altered via Amarra Preferences or in System Preferences.
I have some hi-def files but the great majority are 44.1/16, so I have the 'system' audio midi set to 44.1/24 as per most recommendations. I would have thought that this is the default setting for Amarra too, as it switches itself off for mp3/mp4 file playback.
Have you had, as the guide suggests is reqd at times, to setup a seperate 'Aggregate Device' in your Audio Midi running at 96/24?

Regards

John

There's something about a Mac Mini and a Ndac that's not quite right. Playing iTunes straight out of the toslink socket is overbearing and bright. Add a HiFace usb to spdif interface and it ups the anti. Add in a playback program like Pure Vinyl and you move up a step. To get sounds that are detailed and fatigue free you need to move up to a firewire to spdif interface. Unfortunately this comes at a cost, about £850 for an INT202. Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative for the Ndac?

quote:

Originally posted by Keith L:
Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative for the Ndac?

Yeah... a PC running free software like Foobar and ASIO output.

Keith

Have you tried ferenc's suggestion i.e. a high quality USB stick? Just wondering if you still have the "fatigue" problem via this route?

I tried a usb stick just to check it worked ok.
I didn't try it with the thought that this could be audio nirvana. I think commercial usb stick playing missed the boat a while back.

Keith,

My point being: if the USB input doesn't 'fatigue' but your 'computer' input does. Implies problem is 'probably' the quality of the computer source.

However - if you experience 'fatigue' on all inputs then the problem is probably with the NDAC (just not your you) - or its synergy the down stream components in your system.

I say this as whilst I only had an evaluation for 3 days at Xmas - the last word I'd have used was ' fatigue'.

But my system is probably very different - especially in the speaker department.

Just a thought.

Richard

Richard,

I gave the usb stick a proper listening. I am in awe. It was smooth, detailed, and highly musical. What is going on?

Going by your theory, if I'm getting great sounds from the usb stick and not so with other sources, I need to upgrade my sources. Patrick mentioned a Windows box running Foobar. Will this really improve upon Mac/HiFace/Pure Vinyl?

Is there a way of playing wav files through the usb socket other than via a memory stick? Would an iPod Touch playing wav files be the same? At least you have track selection control with the iPod.

Keith

Keith,

Not sure. It was just a suggestion / guess. :-/

Perhaps no ground loop? Have you played with float v.s. reference on the back of the NDAC? But you had the same issue with optical? If so we can discard this.

Perhaps noise injected into the mains by the Mac Mini? The USB option must be the ultimate for a source with quiet mains.

My Mac Mini is on a different mains ring to the main system (by accident rather than design). Perhaps the Mac is injecting noise that the NDAC is overly sensitive to?

This would not necessarily be solved by a PC solution as they may be just as noisy.

Again - just theories. Let me know if you make any progress.

Cheers

Richard

Keith - flog the DAC - get a Weiss. No pissing around with USB sticks and all that rubbish. Just great music.

James

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
Keith,

My point being: if the USB input doesn't 'fatigue' but your 'computer' input does. Implies problem is 'probably' the quality of the computer source.

However - if you experience 'fatigue' on all inputs then the problem is probably with the NDAC (just not your you) - or its synergy the down stream components in your system.

I say this as whilst I only had an evaluation for 3 days at Xmas - the last word I'd have used was ' fatigue'.

But my system is probably very different - especially in the speaker department.

Just a thought.

Richard

Richard,

Were you using the USB? I thought you used the Spdif inputs when you had it.

Joe

Joe,

You are correct - I was using a HiFace/Spdif. Didn't have the opportunity to live with the NDAC for days - to see how it burnt in. But never the less the Mac / hiFace / NDAC combo I found quite compelling in my system.

So my previous two comments to Keith are not based on direct experience: just suggestions - triggered by Ferenc's comments posted elsewhere.

Really interesting response from Keith!

As I've previously mentioned - intend to do the mother of all evaluations before making my final decision on what next after the Lavry - in no rush .

As I intended to bottom out several forum 'myths' - will require a spare week or so, a large bag of cash and some friendly dealers.

Cheers

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
Joe,

You are correct - I was using a HiFace/Spdif. Didn't have the opportunity to live with the NDAC for days - to see how it burnt in. But never the less the Mac / hiFace / NDAC combo I found quite compelling in my system.

So my previous two comments to Keith are not based on direct experience: just suggestions - triggered by Ferenc's comments posted elsewhere.

Really interesting response from Keith!

As I've previously mentioned - intend to do the mother of all evaluations before making my final decision on what next after the Lavry - in no rush .

As I intended to bottom out several forum 'myths' - will require a spare week or so, a large bag of cash and some friendly dealers.

Cheers

Richard

Hi Richard,

Sounds like Keith needs to check something out. Because you don't report any fatigue using the Spdif and the same source even down to the HiFace.

Good luck with your quest.

Joe

Joe

Possibly. I'm a little wary because I didn't have the NDAC for weeks - just a couple of days. So my perception may be wrong.

Also my system is different - see my entry re "fatigue" and moving from Kan I's to Obelisks.

We need forum lab - where we can pull all these tests together

Cheers

Richard