Opinions sought: (2) Phonosophie P3

Ashley,

I can help you out with the German - I'm quite busy at the moment, but I can translate a few lines for you if you like. Also, have you tried emailing them in English - a lot of Germans will know enough English to be able to answer your questions.

OTOH, maybe they were simply too lazy to answer your query.

Thomas

Ashley's write up is spot on. I can't really add much except to say don't use a brightish cartridge on it. A troika sounds brilliant on it the Arkiv B less so.

It also takes a prefix (inside the deck) but it needs spacers to avoid grounding the suspension if you fit one. Otherwise it is a set and forget deck.

Thomas Heinitz has one, and can demo, Alester Kells in the P3 man.

It's more Roksan than Linn, balance wise.

regards

Dev

"Does anyone find current LP12s bloaty?"

With the standard base board & feet, yes. With no base board & 3M (Mana) feet, no.

Bob

double post. S/ware playing up.

[This message was edited by bob atherton on FRIDAY 08 June 2001 at 14:37.]

...who replied to this plea for Phonosophie info. I have managed to glean some more details as a result:

1. Thomas Heinits seem to be the only UK dealer. Their price is £1325.00 for the basic motor unit w/o arm. Recommended arm is the Aro. There is also an external PSU for it which sells at £628.00, i.e. exactly the same as a 'Geddon... may even be a 'Geddon. Heck, it may even have leaf springs too...

2. I ran Phonosophie's product page (in German) through Alta Vista's Babel Fish translation widget, and got this:

quote:

---

Phonosopihe No. 3: Consistently in music

Phonosophie turns the well-known HiFi principle " a system is only as well as their weakest member " in all consequence on. Because our premise is: Also a record player is only as good as its weakest element!

Therefore we selected all components of our record player PH3 in innumerable measurements and hearing comparisons. Many elements were revised or perfectly again designed. Trim, stocksstocks stocks, electronics and drive, Subchassis with suspension as well as the leads are only one part of the again-developed components. But only the harmonious tuning of these high-quality elements to a unit closed in itself led to the special hearing experience, which the Phonosophie No. 3 obtains and made it within shortest time the reference under the record players.

In the following we would like to describe you the elementary components of the PH3 and it the underlying ideas more near.

The Subchassis with suspension:

Material thickness and form of the Subchassis provide for an optimal accommodation and derivative from the tone lever / pick-up system taken up energy. The Subchassis manufactured from a special wood mixture is furniert reciprocal and shows an extraordinarily good resonance behavior. In connection with the optimized, autocentering leaf springs the resonant frequency is situated probably with 5 cycles per second and thus consciously a oktave more deeply than those of most combinations of tone lever and pick-up, so that intermodulations do not play a role with the PH3. For the adjustment of the Subchassis the feathers/springs without opening of the record player can be adjusted from above.

Stocksstocks stocks with spindle:

An indispensable prerequisite for a vibration-poor run of the plattentellers is stocks almost free from play with small-possible friction between bush and spindle. Already a small axial play leads inevitably to a loss of musical information and causes thus sound falsifications. With the PH3 bush and spindle are manufactured over exactly therefore up to 0,1 and surface-recompensed afterwards with the highest polishing level. In connection with the very hard, likewise highly polished Widia Lagerplaettchen and a special oil the record player achieves so highest povertypoverty poverty and outstanding synchronisation values. The three-point hitch of the brass suspension turned from the full one provides additionally for a outstanding uncoupling of Subchassis and stocks.

The trim:

The structure from reciprocally furniertem wood guarantees an unusually high firmness of the trim with improved resonance characteristics opposite conventional materials. Besides resonances are avoided by the renouncement of connectionconnection connections, which lead to a negative influence of the signal.

The tone lever:

The Naim audio tone lever forms a harmonious combination with the PH3. This in-point-stored lever always provides by its extremely low bearing friction for an optimal guidance of the pick-up system on the record. This applies not only to the vertical, but also to the horizontal axle, since the Naim audio can move contrary to tone levers with bang-bang servo without determined axes of rotation freely in the space. Unevenness of the record therefore cause clearly fewer distortions because the pick-up system deflections of the disk in all directions, led by the tone lever, can follow and cleanly scan thus. Also temperature influences do not play a role with this type of the storage, since bearing friction and axial play are independent contrary to bang-bang servos of the respective ambient temperature. Read somewhat for this over our special counterweight.

The pick-up system:

The pick-up system Chiave special developed " by Phonosophie " convinces by its natural and balanced music playback in the entire frequency range (more to it you can infer from the product page).

The signal transmission:

The klanglichen characteristics of the PH3 are based partially on relatively simple, but effective detailed solutions, to which so far too few attention was given. Thus for 50 ohms the BNC sockets an optimal Impendanzanpassung of the socket designed ensure characteristic impedance to the tone lever cable also designed for 50 ohms for example. Up to the amplifier completely separated running grounding electrodes from tone lever and plate create a perfect mass potential. Extensive hearing comparisons led to the selection of the used matmat mat, which unwanted resonances reduced and which record decouples of the drive additionally.

Electronics and the drive:

Especially developed output stages with special transistors, structured discretely for both phases, produce a clean sinusoidal curve of the generator. By the similar circuit design without Quartz and digital technique the record player is not subject to any HF disturbances. Humming stray effects in the circuit and the pick-up system of the PH3 are avoided by the external storage of the generously dimensioned power pack. The selected and synchronous motor with 24 pins controlled with 25 cycles per second shifts the spectrumspectrum spectrum contrary to conventional 50 cycles per second - engines around a oktave into a deeper, uncritical area.

, the diamond-turned motor shaft from aluminum, made exclusively for the Phonosophie, propels the plattenteller in connection with the polished precision flat strap very calmly. Povertypoverty poverty and synchronisation Konstanz are thereby because of the boundary of the technically possible one. From the perfect drive and run of the plattentellers results an extremely stable and calm, but at the same time high-dynamic klangbild, which becomes fully fair the detail wealth of the schallplattenaufnahme.

---

Well, it made sense to me, anyway. I particularly liked the sound of "stocksstocks stocks", "tone levers with bang-bang servo", and the timely warning about "the record player achieves so highest povertypoverty poverty"

Definitely one for the shortlist, I'd say. TH were really helpful on the phone, too.

Thanks again, all.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Is the Phonosophie available in the U.S.? If so where?

When using the Naim PS is the decks power switch rendered inoperable like a Geddon/LP12?

Is a stock model better than a Rega P25?˙

I have a No.3 with a Aro/Troika/PS3
I compared it with the Elpea12 i had at the time and was impressed enough to buy one.
Well Worth as listen.
Answers:The control still works (both speeds)
:The Naim PS3 appears to the power supply section of a NAP 140 (DC output) more like a Hicap than a Geddon

Steve

With the demise of Thorens (I believe that the P3 is derived from the TD2000-series tables), anyone know where we could source a few belts? (We've still got a deck here that's probably in need of a replacement one.)

Dave Dever, NANA

P.S. The Naim P3PS is a high-current single-rail DC supply used to drive the (oscillator?) circuit located on the front left underside of the plinth; it uses a NAP 140 transformer and NAPS140 PCB to feed a NAP 250-style regulated power supply module modified to provide the correct voltages.

This same supply could also be modified to provide +/- rails for an older Thorens TD125, which I've done once before.