SuperLine Loading Thread.

Aha - I stupidly forgot the most important info, thanks Julian.

I have a Rega P9 with DV 17D3 and P75 MK2 into SuperNait with Supercap into SL2s and NSub and a CDX2 and XPS2.

Cheers

Tim

Tim

I cannot offer anything definitive, just that most Dynavector users seem to be erring towards the 453ohm plug. Not sure if you need any capacitance either. Perhaps someone else can help?

J

I'd suggest a 453R with no cap is a good bet, just as Julian says. However, given the presentation of the P9 I'd try and get hold of a 470R as well and then listen for yourself.

Regards,

Peter

Excellent - thank you. It's nice to have a good place to start.

tim

Nice Timbo, thanks for the question, I have P5 and DV 17d2. Just taking my time ordering one.

Latest update:

Still running with the 576R for a few more weeks.

It has loads of detail on my system(LP12/Keel/EkosSE/Akiva) but I am beginning to think the vocals may be a bit thin, slightly hard or even 'shout' at me.

So maybe in a few weeks time I will see if I can get something between the 560R and 576R (568R?) to give me the 'warmth' and 'roundness' of 560R and detail of the 576R.

Or even try a Hi-Line between the SuperLine and SuperCap.

Any comments?

Richard

quote:

but I am beginning to think the vocals may be a bit thin, slightly hard or even 'shout' at me.

Hi Richard,

Do you think that, maybe, this is atttributed to something else, like recordings, Keel or set up?

In my system, using Kans, Ittok and RCA plugs/sockets (all of which can be forward or up front in their presentation) the 576R was a definite all round improvement, and in no way sounds 'thin' ,'hard' or 'shouty'.

Regards,

Craig

Craig,

Interesting you should say that.

I think by system sounds fantastic by the way and is regularly checked over by The SORG but I spent Saturday afternoon re-building the Fraims, getting everything perfectly level (not as easy as it sounds!), re-dressing the interconnects etc.

This did make an improvement...the debate is which aspect caused the improvement of course!

Today, if I get time, I will check my speakers over for being solid, level etc...which I am sure they are but worth checking.

So I spent Saturday evening with the 576R enjoying the likes of Dylan (Bob and Jakob), Steve Winwood (latest album plus Spencer Davis days), John Martyn (who I am seeing in concert tonight!) and Neil Young (Crazy Horse days).

But once again whether with the 576R or 560R I love it!....and I must say am leaning towards the 576R...it is just finding that right setting such that I can forget about it and carry on enjoying the music.

But I am going to dem a Hi-Line (between Superline and 552) to see what that does as the standard 'grey' interconnect may be a weak link.

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Olsen:
Latest update:
Still running with the 576R for a few more weeks.
It has loads of detail on my system(LP12/Keel/EkosSE/Akiva) but I am beginning to think the vocals may be a bit thin, slightly hard or even 'shout' at me.
So maybe in a few weeks time I will see if I can get something between the 560R and 576R (568R?) to give me the 'warmth' and 'roundness' of 560R and detail of the 576R.
Any comments?

Richard

Julian H has been experimenting within his system using 560R, 576R and 590R plugs I've supplied him. I'll see if I can get some suitable resistors and make a couple of plugs up and send one over to him for a second opinion and I'll have a listen here too. The other thing we have been experimenting with is reducing the cap loading as you may have read. Hopefully Julian will report soon on this one.

Regarding your "vocals may be a bit thin" observation. Some suggestions you may wish to check:

1) Mat wrong way up? The wrong side up will sound a little glassy and doesn't boogie as well.

2) Is your stylus clean?

3) How old is your Akiva? Is it worn?

4) Tracking weight? 1.7g is suggested as best by Linn. Please check.

5) Recently I have been playing about more with the anti-skate settings on Ittoks and Ekos, basically as a result of reading about Mark Dunn's (I think!) experimentation with the Aro. Worth trying too.... try increasing the value a little and see what you think.

6) VTA - A raise at the rear (bearing end) can cause this. Are you parallel with most of your LPs?

7) Loose fixings on the LP12, particularly the eight screws fixing the hinge back plates to the LP12 can cause a hardening of the sound.

8) set-up generally, does your deck still bounce evenly, is the armboard side of the Keel still look parallel to the plinth? If in doubt here, just ask for your dealer to look over it for you.***EDIT- Just read your most recent post (10:22)after I started writing this. So point 8) has been covered already then. - Good

I hope some of the above is of use to you.

Regards,

Peter

Peter & Craig,

Thank you both for your input.

And Peter I will explore your list.

I suspect:

1. Mat - worth trying because I have probably changed it around since The SORG was last over here.

2. Clean stylus - yes good point as I know how critical this is and it can be a problem on my system. I just use a stylus brush and a vibrating audio-technica.

3. I fear ,my system may be showing up the stylus getting a bit old (c5 years). I know this would be The SORG's suggested upgrade (even before the HiLine or a set of PowerLines).

4&5. Tracking weight is c1.75g and anti skating were both set at after my last service although I did tweek the anti-skating. So when I next get The SORG around we will experiment.

6. I'll leave VTA until The SORG are around as I don't know how to adjust and I leave these things to The SORG (safe hands!), although it is set for an average thickness LP

7. Unlikely knowing the care and attention The SORG take - I have seen them at work (real craftsman).

8.Set up is excellent and bounch is the best it has ever been.

The above I am sure will be useful.

May, many thanks and I will report back



Richard

Richard,

Points 2, 3 and 7 in order.


1) Ask Hamish for some green paper, he's bound to have some

2) I agree. Get them to check your stylus under a microscope for wear.

3) This is a time thing rather than set-up, these screws do relax over time and are often loose. Their effect on the sound is consistant with your findings just like the other points raised.

Please let us know how you get on.

Peter

Peter,

Once again many thanks.

I suspect the stylus will be my issue but I will check with The SORG (David in my case).

Was intending for a home dem of a HL and also PL in the next few weeks so maybe I will change focus to that of the stylus and LP12!

And as for that 'green paper' I have never been keen on the idea but I will give it a try.

I will definitely let you know how I progress.

Kind regards,

Richard

Oh and Peter...I will get the screws checked!

Thanks,

Richard

I have a couple more questions if folk would bear with me.

1. Does Naim/Dealer make up the load plugs free of charge or are they costly and how long does this take

2. Having downloaded the Superline instructions I don't understand the resistance capacitance table it seems like there is one column missing. This would easily allow a novice like myself to probably damage something.

Finally I see there are two notes to show the equivalent of the Prefix K and S boards, I can't remember which Prefix I would have used with Dynavector cartridges - can anyone enlighten me?

Finally/finally I would have thought NAIM would recommend which loading should be applicable to what cartridge the dealer is setting up for the client. I know folk are helpful on this forum, but as the manufacturer Naim should give some sort of guidance as this would be a known quantity at the dealer.

Cheers

Tim

Timbo

If you are fortunate and have a dealer like mine then yes, he will make up plugs for you. I cannot comment on how much they would charge. To be honest, making up plugs is not difficult and if you want to experiment you can do so yourself. I bought some more resistors and plugs today for that very reason.

Use the plugs in the loading sockets and you'll be fine. I dont think you can damage anything by putting a strange load on a cartridge, it may sound strange though.

You should have had an "S" Prefix with your Dynavector cartridge. The loading for that was 470R+5.6nF IIRC. However, many are finding that this is not the ideal combination now. I think 453R+no cap. is the way to go, or at least an excellent starting point.

The thing is, Naim could recommend something but it is down to the user to choose what suits him/herself and their system. The Naim guys and gals are really helpful and enthusiastic people but I think having them try out every cartridge so they can make a recommendation is asking a bit too much*! That also would not include the variables elsewhere in the chain either.

J

*this is where your dealer's experience comes in handy but I concede they are not all as keen as someone I could mention.

Thanks Julian:

Very useful info, I appreciate there are many cartridges out there and of course this didn't cross my mind when I posted.

Unfortunately I'm one of those people who are not very good at fiddling (this is meant to be non offensive to others) it took me three attempts at setting up my SL2's :-)

However with the advice I have I should be well into the ball park, I'll get my dealer to sort out a 453R and 470R when I get the Superline. Hopefully I won't need to venture any further.

Cheers

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Timbo:
it took me three attempts at setting up my SL2s

only 3?

Well 3 to understand the fundamentals of what does what i.e. if one had the damn things perfectly level in the first place then one wouldn't have to muck around with the tweeter bar and the faceplate :-)

Also you know when they are right the sound tells all....!!

Tim

quote:

i.e. if one had the damn things perfectly level in the first place then one wouldn't have to muck around with the tweeter bar and the faceplate :-)

dont i know? and it took me more than 3 goes to setup my sl2's and each time my technique improved and the speaker rewarded w better performance.

enjoy
ken

quote:

Originally posted by Timbo:

However with the advice I have I should be well into the ball park, I'll get my dealer to sort out a 453R and 470R when I get the Superline. Hopefully I won't need to venture any further.

Cheers

Tim

You shouldn't need to Tim, as I said on the previous page 453R would be my first choice but you may prefer the 470R with your Rega P9

KR

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:

However, the IMHO 453R is the right one to use with the XX2 - enjoy!

Agreed - a considerable boost over the 500R, which was itself pretty amazing (XX2/Nima/HDC arm cable, no capacitor loading).

Thanks.

Wow saw John Martyn and his band on Sunday night....excellent!

When I was listening I couldn't help hearing the detail I get with the 576R compared to the 560R (LP12/Akiva).

And when I got home and played Grace And Danger with the 576R it was definitely sounded/felt like the gig.

So am I leaning towards the 576R now...well maybe!

I have The SORG in tomorrow who will check out my rig amongst other things!

Richard

Richard

I assume those are all "+1nF" ?

Julian

Right. I have had another major play with the “most appropriate” plugs for the Akiva over the weekend and the last few evenings. I really hope I have sorted it out now because I just want to get back to some regular listening to music! So here goes……..

576R+460pF does not really work for me. The Akiva needs the 1nF capacitance to flesh out the sound. With the 460pF it seems false / unreal. I would be interested in trying a capacitance between 460pF and 1nF but I don’t think those values are actually available.

Moving to a 562R+1nF (from the 576R+1nF) the impression is of a softer sound, more diffuse across the soundstage, less purposeful or dynamic.

The 560R+1nF was similar to the above except more so. I was quite surprised how far from the 562R+1nF this is considering the notional value difference between the two resistances.

The 590R+1nF initially seemed to have some nice qualities which wore off over time. It seems very sterile, unemotional, cold. One step too far. I really tried with this one but it just does not gel with me.

Going back to the 576R+1nF the tunes seemed to click. It was right again. Natural, dynamic, a little lush, detailed, enjoyable.

It has taken a while to get this far but I think I am there or nearly there now. I am going to try some other loadings near 576R within the 1% tolerance available to see it I can get a little further.

Julian

Linn LP12SE, Akiva, T-Kable wih BNC’s

Well, I am the only one who no longer use a 1nF cap. plug with the Akiva.