Mahler

Mahler is on of my favourite composers. Just pre-ordered this fine box set



CD 1
Symphony no. 1
SOBR / Kubelik

Blumine
(rejected 2nd movement, 1st Symphony) 5’53
Boston SO / Ozawa

CD 2
Symphony no. 2
Cotrubas/Ludwig/Wiener Staatsopernchor/WP/ Mehta

CD 3 – 4
Symphony no. 3
Forrester/Netherlands Radio Chorus/Willibord Boy’s Choir
Haitink

CD 5
Symphony no. 4
Banse/The Cleveland Orchestra / Boulez

Totenfeier (early version of 1st movement, 2nd Symphony) 25’09
Chicago SO / Boulez

CD 6
Symphony no. 5
WP / Bernstein

CD 7
Symphony no. 6
BP / Abbado

CD 8 – 9
Symphony no. 7
Philharmonia Orchestra / Sinopoli

CD 10
Symphony no. 8
Harper/Popp/ Auger/ Minton/ Watts/ Kollo/ Shirley-Quirk/Talvela/
Wiener Sängerknaben/Wiener Staatsopernchor/Wiener Singverein / Chicago Symphony Orchestra / Solti

CD 11 – 12
Symphony no. 9
BP / Karajan

CD 13
Symphony no. 10
RSO Berlin / Chailly

CD 14
Das Lied von der Erde
Araiza / Fassbaender / BP / Giulini

CD 15
Des Knaben Wunderhorn
Von Otter / Quasthoff / BP / Abbado

CD 16
Kindertotenlieder / Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen / Rückert-Lieder
Hampson / WP / Bernstein

CD 17
Das klagende Lied
Dunn / Baur / Hollweg / Schmidt
Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin / Chailly

CD 18
Lieder und Gesänge aus der Jugend
v. Otter/Gothoni
Weikl/Philh O/Sinopoli
Hampson / Philharmonia/ Berio
Hampson / Lutz
Klavierquartettsatz 11’13
Kremer / V. Hagen / C. Hagen / Maisenberg
Arr. MAHLER
Weber: Die drei Pintos (Entr’acte) 6’13
RNO / Pletnev

... and this is one of my most treasured recordings.

Two Mahler performances that really ring my bell ...

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
Mahler is a composer who might have been compared rightfully to Beethoven, if only he weren't so long-winded. Repetition can kill.

Agreed! Especially when listened to back to back with Brahms or Ellington. There is something to be said for editing. Ironically though, Symphony No. 3 is my favorite at the moment. The others that really move me are 6 and 9.

Many raised on pop music would view Beethoven as long-winded, it is a matter of perspective. For me Mahler is one of the pinnacles of music, and Bernstein was one of his star interpreters. His 5th and 6th symphonies hold a special place in my collection.

Mahler's development sections are far longer than they need to be.

quote:

Mahler's development sections are far longer than they need to be.

I am not here in defence of Mahler but to only to espouse a general principal or philosophy I have over these sentiments.

The music is exactly as long as it should be. You are listening to Gustav Mahler and not Mike Eschman! You need to go and approach Gustav Mahler and not the other way around. Often, I find these complaints have more to do with where the listener is at than with Mahler (or whomever) who should never become the scapegoat for the opinions or weaknesses of the listener.

If it it not your cup of tea that is fine and another matter entirely. As a pianist, I often hear these same complaints regarding Schubert. Again, my answer is the same. The lack of understanding or a conflict of personality is the key to this disconnect and has nothing to do with Schubert. We are listeners. The best listeners are those who can empathize and be drawn into what a speaker is saying. This does not happen at a superficial level. You have to become engaged at a higher level.
Regards,
Doug

Florestan, sometimes things are just too long, nothing more :-)

I love Mahler, he was the first for me.

But he was not a very good editor.

Sometimes when I listen to Mahler, I find his music long winded, thematically meandering and structurally loose.

But to simply dismiss this characteristic of his music as 'negative'--better to remove it through some editting--is loosely akin to proclaiming that Bach's counterpoint is too austere and needs some better tunes, Beethoven's great symphonies too masculine, shouty and strident, Schoenberg too atonal, or Reich too repetitive.

When in the right frame of mind (i.e. when I have the capacity to empathise with the composition/performance) I really do feel that I get it--it works, it really does. In these fleeting moments of insight, the magic lies in exactly that verboseness that you dismiss--you sink in, it envelopes you, themes struggle to escape the vortex of repetition, and the escape, when it comes (or if--no happy endings guaranteed!) feels all the more euphoric for the ardour.

Other times, I'm too impatient, too controlling: I curse him for not being more succinct. As Florestan says, it's about me, not him.

Talking about Mahler made me dig out the 2nd with Boulez and Vienna. I am going to sit through some more of his long-winded music.

I really do love this stuff :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Nathaniel:
When in the right frame of mind (i.e. when I have the capacity to empathise with the composition/performance) I really do feel that I get it--it works, it really does. In these fleeting moments of insight, the magic lies in exactly that verboseness that you dismiss--you sink in, it envelopes you, themes struggle to escape the vortex of repetition, and the escape, when it comes (or if--no happy endings guaranteed!) feels all the more euphoric for the ardour.

Other times, I'm too impatient, too controlling: I curse him for not being more succinct. As Florestan says, it's about me, not him.

Talent does not exclude one from criticism. In the right mood I think Sick Nurses is incredibly entertaining and insightful, that doesn't make it a good movie. I am not convinced that pointing out Mahler's lack of brevity is a failing on the listener's part. It is the listener who is the final judge of a composer's work, as it should be.

For those of you who have signed up to B&Ws Society of Sound there is a 24bit 48kHz download available of Mahler's 8th from LSO.

M

I just sat through Mahler's 2nd. Much of it is absolutely breathtaking, but at over half and hour with as many climaxes as I have fingers, that last movement is really too much. It actually made me laugh.

This fly in the ointment is really a shame, as Mahler is a strikingly original voice.

At any rate, it was a fun way to start the day :-)

Now it's time for the Haydn/Mozart antidote!

My favourite Mahler 9

quote:

Originally posted by Naijeru:
In the right mood I think Sick Nurses is incredibly entertaining and insightful, that doesn't make it a good movie. I am not convinced that pointing out Mahler's lack of brevity is a failing on the listener's part. It is the listener who is the final judge of a composer's work, as it should be.

No, I'm not convinced by my argument either, and I can't listen to Mahler's 8th at all. Certainly artistic works can find themselves held in higher regard by more people if someone keeps the creator 'in check'. But, nevertheless, I think that you risk missing something if you insist on judging a work against a metric which the artist themselves may have held in low regard--you risk saying a wine is inferior because it doesn't taste like a Bordeaux?

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:
My favourite Mahler 9

Barbirolli may be the greatest Mahler interperter.

The fifth's probably my favourite. I attended a performance by the Concertgebouw Orchestra and Chailly, around the time their CD came out. The concert was breathtaking, and the CD provides a happy memento (despite the fact that it was recorded under studio conditions). Sound quality is absolutely breathtaking.

EJ

I think that Abbado's recent live recordings from Berlin, but particularly those with his hand picked orchestra in Lucerne, prove that he may just be 'the greatest' Mahler conductor, if that epithet can mean anything at all.

Love Mahler but at times like now I can't focus on that. Sometimes he makes my heart sing and touches teh cosmos, if not, I'm not in the mood or the performance doesn't hold together.

It's all personal taste no good or bad, if you don't care for it then zip it off and find something else that zings you. Love the cover of that 5th with Chailly.