HDX questions

From what I understand it plays from hard disk or from memory. In 'CD play only' mode (the CD from a friend you're not allowed to copy) it plays from internal memory and nothing gets stored on hard disk. In 'normal' rip mode the CD gets ripped and stored on the hard disk.

I've got two pragmatic questions:

1) How good will it sound pitched against the current Naim CDP lineup.

2) When will it be available.

Some answers given by Mark Raggett on Wednesday's demo day here.

July was mentioned.


Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Steve S1:
Some answers given by Mark Raggett on Wednesday's demo

Thank you Steve. This puzzles me a bit:

• Bare HDX as pure CD Player – somewhere between CD5i/CD5x.
• Bare HDX playing a rip – somewhere between CD5x/CDX2, but more toward the CDX2.

If I'm right(?), the difference between the two playing modes is only the storage medium. Memory vs. hard disk. In playing mode data is stored memory, in rip mode on hard disk. Therefore the D/A conversion and signal handling downstream should be identical. Or am I missing something?

Richard.

Richard, read the thread on "HDX as a CD Player" many of these questions are asked and somewhat answered by Naim, including Paul, Phil, and Dave from the company. As an aside I've heard that Naim is still working on the unit and improving the music playback. What this means I guess we'll all need to wait and hear as the only thing which matters is the "shipped product." I do hope that the comments from Mark turn out not to be accurate as this would be a disappointment given the price point. From that alone I would expect the unit to be between CDX2 and CDS3 naked.

There are some explanations in the thread on how the HDX handles "immediate" and "ripped playback" which would lead me to believe that the difference should be at best minimal, so I'm still confused.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:There are some explanations in the thread on how the HDX handles "immediate" and "ripped playback" which would lead me to believe that the difference should be at best minimal, so I'm still confused.

Found this in the other thread:

<< The HDX actually does exactly the same process whether it is reading a CD for ripping to storage or for playing it back - it is just the destination for the data that changes. In both instances we read the CD at a greater rate than the playback speed and so even when playing back in real time we very quickly read ahead and within seconds build up a substantial buffer of secure ripped data that has been read in exactly the same way as it would be if we were reading to rip >>

That explains it IMO...

Another thing I've not yet been able to find out from all that is posted on the HDX is about the music library. It primarily uses the AMG database to recognize a CD, cover art etc. But does the HDX need a wired internet connection to do this or can will it also work wireless? Or with the Desktop Client application?

I only have wireless internet in my house and getting a cable to my system would be a major hassle to do.

Tnx again, Richard.

Richard, I think this is only part of the explanation. Given what Phil stated and you have quoted I still do not understand the comments attributed to Mark about the difference in playback quality between "CD playback" and "ripped playback." The comments from Mark indicate a huge difference in quality and unfortunately I think this will only get sorted out after the final product is assembled, shipped, and listened to.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
Richard, read the thread on "HDX as a CD Player" many of these questions are asked and somewhat answered by Naim, including Paul, Phil, and Dave from the company. As an aside I've heard that Naim is still working on the unit and improving the music playback. What this means I guess we'll all need to wait and hear as the only thing which matters is the "shipped product." I do hope that the comments from Mark turn out not to be accurate as this would be a disappointment given the price point. From that alone I would expect the unit to be between CDX2 and CDS3 naked.

There are some explanations in the thread on how the HDX handles "immediate" and "ripped playback" which would lead me to believe that the difference should be at best minimal, so I'm still confused.

I don't think it's all that hard to grasp, but maybe it's me.

CD - error correction takes place during playback.

HDX Rip - perfect copy of CD, so no need for error correction as it plays.

Does that not support what Mark is saying? They have had plenty of time to compare it. I don't buy the proto-type stuff either. Naim are not going to release a product for critical evaluation - that isn't close to how they see it.

KT Max,

It's not just the storage media, one copy has had any errors corrected. The CD has not. So, the CD can be equal to the HDX rip, but never better. You can't create more information than was on the disc. The only thing you can do is alter/lose it in play back.

Best regards,

Steve

Sorry to stamp my foot, but this thread is about HDX in *high bit rate* and *high sample rate* mode

*not* in cd rip and playback mode -- there are other threads for that

please try to keep this focussed on the important questions I have raised

jon

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:
Sorry to stamp my foot, but this thread is about HDX in *high bit rate* and *high sample rate* mode

*not* in cd rip and playback mode -- there are other threads for that

please try to keep this focussed on the important questions I have raised

jon

Sorry Jon,

We'll leave the unimportant questions like what it sounded like for later. Maybe you would get a better result with an email to Naim, because the demo day only dealt with the HDX playing 44/16 as a CD and CD rip.

Love to hear that blu tac wonder btw.

Steve

*

Ah... an experts only thread.

Steve, if you carefully read Phil's reply on the other thread it goes against the point you keep raising with respect to the difference between immediate and ripped playback.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
Steve, if you carefully read Phil's reply on the other thread it goes against the point you keep raising with respect to the difference between immediate and ripped playback.

Sorry Gary, which reply? Can you do a link?

It's the point Naim (Mark) makes actually. But I agree with him, as I expect an error free rip to sound as good or better than a CD (given the same DAC and output stage) - why wouldn't it?

It can't physically be worse, unless information is lost and that isn't the case. Any comparison using EAC will soon tell you that.

Or do you think running error correction during (rather than before) playback improves the result?

If the HDX is playing the music from the error corrected "buffer" (kept on the HD,or not) as opposed to directly from the disc - this amounts to the same thing, of course. It may explain why the demo consisted of bare HDX rip, HDX/XPS2 rip and then PowerLine on XPS2.

Mark's response on behalf of Naim, was given in response to a direct question from one of the others in the audience.

Regards,

Steve

Steve, here's the comments from Phil at Naim:

If you have a chance could you address two questions regarding "CD playback."

1.If the HDX rips to memory, is there any delay between "play" and "music replay?"

<< In absolute terms yes, there will be a small delay between hitting "Play" and music replay starting however in practice the delay is so small as to be completely unnoticeable ... see my next comment for further details. >>

2.Since the HDX is doing something different for "immediate playback" vs. "file ripping and playback" is there a difference in musical presentation since "from memory" would imply that the HDX has not had the opportunity to perform error correction etc.. as it does when the file is initially ripped and stored either in the HDD or eventual PC/NAS?

<< The HDX actually does exactly the same process whether it is reading a CD for ripping to storage or for playing it back - it is just the destination for the data that changes. In both instances we read the CD at a greater rate than the playback speed and so even when playing back in real time we very quickly read ahead and within seconds build up a substantial buffer of secure ripped data that has been read in exactly the same way as it would be if we were reading to rip - as soon as data is read from the drive it can be played. The result of this is that response to transport commands (play, pause, next and previous track etc.) is just what you would expect from a normal CD player with no noticeable delays whilst buffers are pre-filled or anything like that. >>

I hope you can see why I'm confused when I see this answer from technical development from Phil and the comments attributed to Mark!!

Gary

Hi Gary,

I do indeed, see what you mean.

All the best,

Steve