Shhh sound from my naim system

Come on fellow Naimers!! Please I need some advice on this SSSHHHH sound, which I am pretty concerned with. If Anyone could provide any idea or suggestion as to what this is, I would REALLY appreciated.

Much Thanks in advance

Cyu

Maybe your sistem (please observe the correct spelling in future), is trying to tell you something .....

All jokes aside as I know this is not funny from where you are standing, you need to give some more info before anyone can help you.

Firstly, a few questions which may help to silence the Shhhh.

1. Is this coming from both speakers ?
2. At what volume setting (o'clock) does this become noticable
3. Have you tried any other source, and if so, is that the same (in other words, is it perhaps one of the pre-amp input boards, or could it be in the amp ?
4. How long are your speaker cables, and what type of cable are you using ?? (Naim amps need at least 3.5 meteres of cable per channel)
5. Are the above correctly connected (only applies to Naim speaker cable)
6. When did this become noticable (and what may have instigated it) think hard on that one, you may remember dosconnecting something recently which started this off...

There, thats a few for starters, and should save some time for other members.

Hope this helps you get started, and I sypathise, many people read these posts, but not many people respond ....


Mike

Thanks Mike.

1. Yes, the sound is coming from the speakers. During the system is turned off, it is quite apparent as I get near the speakers. This may be a normal thing.

2. The sound becomes very apparent when the volume knob is about 12 clock position and gets progressively louder when the knob is all the way to the max. Even at the 12 clock position, I thought it would go away when the system plays music. But I hear the music and also this ssshhhh. Not really getting clear/clean sound.

4&5. The speaker cables are ~ 3.0 meters and they are naim made. They are quite old though and not NAC 5. Not exactly sure what type they are. I got them from another owner. I checked the direction. I saw that the arrow on the cables are pointing toward the speakers, which is the correct orientation.

6. I noticed when I first got it (~1 year ago), but not much time to think about it because busy with work. Kind of ignored it for awhile. hoping it would go away. I was thinking that it is normal. Since this is my first system, I don't have much of an experience with HiFi. I owned a cheap boombox during college and nothing else before.

My current speakers are setting on a book shelf. Could this contribute to the problem? or Is it not a problem at all, but just my inexperience paranoia?

Thanks

Cyu

Don't worry about your hiss, have a read of this earlier thread and you will be comforted to know this is a naim thing.

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=1921991776

As far as the speaker thing is concerned, so called "bookshelf" speakers are actually a misnomer in the sense that they usually sound lousy on bookshelves where they are closed in
and need to be on stands in free space to get the best from them as shown in the pic (kind permission of B&W's web site)

If you can't afford stands try putting them on top of a desk or something and give them a bit of space to breathe. You will find by moving them in and out from the wall behind them that you can "tune" how they sound to suit your taste.

Hope this helps

regards
GEOFFP

thanks alot Geoff P.

I checked the info you suggested and I am much relieved to read that others are having similar experience. And more importantly, it is a normal part of Naim system.
A great pic you posted as I noticed B&W DM 303. I noticed that some viewed them pretty negatively, despite DM 303 get great reviews from the audio critiques. But now I am looking forward to getting my hands on a pair of Credo speakers. I am sure this would be much improvement than using DM 303 (noticed that they are quite good with CD5/112/150).

Again thanks all for your input.

quote:

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Originally posted by cyu:
thanks alot Geoff P.

I checked the info you suggested and I am much relieved to read that others are having similar experience. And more importantly, it is a normal part of Naim system.

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From Geoff P

quote:

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Don't worry about your hiss, have a read of this earlier thread and you will be comforted to know this is a naim thing

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Cyu, I would have to disagree with Geoff here, and I think you are being mislead too. Naim equipment is very high quality, Class A (output amplifier stage permanently on, so less noise) Audio gear, and should NOT normally hiss. In fact, even when I bought my Nait 1 integrated amp way back in 1988, the dealer demonstrated this to me by turning the volume right up, and showing that there is no hiss.

With the sistem you have there, you would need to have your ear right up to the speaker to hear anything at all on full volume, with no music on. I also note that you are using approx 0.5 metres less cable than Naim recommend (3.5 Metres minimum). I think you need to do a bit more investigation before you write the problem off to it just being 'A Naim thing'


I don't have much time right now, but will re-read this thread, and get back to you later


Mike

quote:

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Naim equipment is very high quality, Class A (output amplifier stage permanently on, so less noise) Audio gear, and should NOT normally hiss. In fact, even when I bought my Nait 1 integrated amp way back in 1988, the dealer demonstrated this to me by turning the volume right up, and showing that there is no hiss.

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First some clarifications: -

1. Only the preamps are class A, the power amps are class B / AB depedning upon how pedantic you are

2. The operating class has nothing whatsoever to do with noise levels

3. The audibility of the hiss will vary dramatically with speaker sensitivity, but should never be audible over the music

cyu,

You really need to visit a dealer - the audible hiss sounds wrong and if anything the 112 / 150 combo is quieter then older Naim items (I use both). I'd check the length of the speaker cable and ensure it's 3.5m min. but don't go and buy more to find it isn't the cure - talk to a dealer and borrow some to try.

Get it looked at though, louder tha normal hissing can be a sign of amplifier instability, and could be potentially damaging.

Andy.

If the hiss noticeably changes with volume setting then, unless you are switched to a turntable input, there's probably a problem. There will be a constant hiss from any amp, but it should be an 'ear near the speakers' to notice it level.I would ask a dealer for advice, which should be freely dispensed.

Paul

quote:

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Originally posted by Andrew L. Weekes:

First some clarifications: -

1. Only the preamps are class A, the power amps are class B / AB depedning upon how pedantic you are

2. The operating class has nothing whatsoever to do with noise levels

3. The audibility of the hiss will vary dramatically with speaker sensitivity, but should never be audible over the music
Andy.

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Hi Andy, thought you were on holiday or something, have been emailing you for a while, but had no response .... can you look at you alw-audio mailbox (please)

Thanks for putting me right here about Naim amplification class, I was under the impression that they were class 'A' but apparently not.

However, I do have a query on statement No 2 about Classes of amplification as I was under the impression that Class A is quieter because the ouput devices never switch off (i.e. biased permanently on to avoid switching noise ??) ergo, would this not make a Class A amp inherently quieter ???

Anyway, I'm glad to see you've picked up on this thread, as a number of people on this forum seem to have the impression that Naim gear is 'hissy' and is that this is normal, not my experience at all.

Mike

Switching or crossover distortion is an artifact of producing a signal, it won't affect quiescent noise. It would be an incredibly noisy amp that was pushed beyond its standing current by noise.

Theoretically a Class A amp will have less distortion than a Class B, in practice most 'Class A' amps degrade to Class B at a relatively lower power level, or into a low impedance, and in this mode they have worse distortion than an equivalent Class B. Of course it's possible that distortion isn't all....

Paul

cyu,
also check the input volume compensation feature, i think it adjusts the input sensitivity of the preamp, it maybe set too high or too low. read the manual to be sure.

bry

i also have B&W DM303 by the way and they are excellent budget speakers

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Woo:
And I am one of those people. All electronics have a noise floor which comes across as background hiss, and in my experience Naim is higher than average.

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As I said Richard, not in my experience. I would say that I have NEVER heard Naim gear of any model or age, hiss above the music.

The only way you could possibly hear a hiss (IMHO) is by cranking the volume up to full, and putting your ear right up to the speaker grill. Even then, I would challenge most people's hearing (which deteriorates as you get older - fact) to hear it above ambient noise in the room.

As I said, just my opinion.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by MJSM:
The only way you could possibly hear a hiss (IMHO) is by cranking the volume up to full, and putting your ear right up to the speaker grill. Even then, I would challenge most people's hearing (which deteriorates as you get older - fact) to hear it above ambient noise in the room.

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I can hear hiss from my NAIT3 in a room when there's no music on (using Rega Elas). It's a hissier amp than either my Rega Mira or my old Audiolab 8000A (or even the A&R Cambridge Alpha One from 1985 I got as a spare). When music's on, no problem...

I'm partially sighted though, and hiss/mobile phone ringers/beepers on microwaves etc drive me round the twist - hypersensitive to those kinds of frequencies...

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

After posting the original "I've got a hiss" link. The whole problem was not as bad as I originally stressed over.

I can only hear the hiss now if my head is about 5.8 cm's from the speaker. Although that is not my normal listening position!! Other than that I just enjoy the music.

Stevie

Thanks all for your input. The problem is that there isn't a Naim dealer in my town, so I probably have to send my system to the NANA to check any abnormality with the system. This would be pretty costly and may not be best option. Also, I am planning to get new NAC 5 cables. Hope all this would eliminate the problem.

With all this, it seems to me that the hsss sound level is somewhat subjective. Because the other day, my wife thinks that it is barely audible, but I noticed it pretty easily.

Simple solution.Don't sit any closer than 2 foot to your loudspeakers.
That way you won't hear any hiss,weather music is playing or not.

Paul.

Am I mising something here? Has anybody suggested that this problem is an earth loop? I had exactly this hissing problem and an equally clear degradation in sound quality.

My dealer suggested taking the fuse out of my (non-Naim) amplifier and lo - no hiss! I have a slight hum from my amp (they all do don't they (?) but this is not reflected by what comes out of my speakers i.e. next to nil except music). My dealer offered this advice on the basis that he would deny if ever asked so, at your own risk, but it worked for me.