Are SBL`s Bass LIght?
Posted by: Big Ears on 22 November 2001
I want to change my speakers which are currently B&W Cdm 7se and would value your expert opinions on what to listen to. My amps are 72+Hicap(soon to be upgraded to 52/supercap) 135`s. I know that a lot of people have SBL`s but some say that they are bass light and others disagree. I go to a lot of live concerts and own over 100 live dvd shows and i want to feel as if i am there so do SBL`s rock with Bass that i will be able to feel as well as hear and what is their loudness capability?
Are there other speakers that i should consider up to a max of £4000/ or would going active give me the results that i crave?
The warm fluffy sound does suit this type of music - but alot of it is to do with the treble and more importantly the balance of bass and treble. Get it wrong and you notice the treble and it begins to get very fatiguing. I have still never heard a system that plays all types of music to a very high standard. My solution - buy two systems!
I have another consideration as well, neighbours, I am pushing my luck at 11 oclock on the dial at four in the afternoon, at that volume the bass seems to resolve its self and they sound f**king good, and yes you can feel them, trouble is when the music stops I can hear the neighbours TV where they have turned it up to point out they could feel the bass too!
SBLs do bass, they do it well, IMO but as usual its what flicks your switch, I have heard speakers which do more bass, but to me everything else comes with it, that is to say the treble sounds more bass, the mid more bass and the end result is a more bass presentation. The only speaker I have heard do otherwise is NBLs and a 500, now if anyone wants to say they don't do bass are just talking crap.
Bye.
quote:
Bass isn't everything - not even in Reggae
No that's true ... there's the drums as well 
No.
Cheers,
Bob
quote:
do SBL`s rock with Bass that i will be able to feel as well as hear and what is their loudness capability?
No, and not that impressive, respectively.
Here's an option. Sell the 135's and the B&W's and get some secondhand active ATC 50A-SL (or 100's if big enough room) and Custom Mana ATC stands.
quote:
I go to a lot of live concerts and own over 100 live dvd shows and i want to feel as if i am there
Exactly what I wanted ! And I got it ! Stunning realism, plenty of grunt (2x 350w) and they do bass.. Haven't got the full 5.1, just the stereo pair, but I don't need a sub (seriously !) so if you were thinking of an AV rig, that can play music, maybe worth considering.
If you're ever down in London, give me a shout.
cheers
mikeh
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Hector:
So the 15 inch DBL unit is to drive a larger room with no extra extension? Fine, but the specs and listening to them make me think otherwise.
I have heard a system with DBLs which I'd previously heard with SBLs.
The balance of the two was very similar. The DBL extends that lean bass down well into the sub-bass, and achieves it's sense of scale through that superb extension.
cheers, Martin
Music is all about listening and you are going to be a better judge of whether they suit you or not, than anyone else's opinion.
Some people happen to like to listen to Reggae and Dance, where this 'correct' style of bass doesn't work as well as bass that hits you in the chest.
i listen to a LOT of reggae. sbl bass is just right for ME with this style of music. and there is a bonus, i get to hear the actual bass tune too!!
that's not to say you are wrong in what you say. it just means your experience of sbl's is different to mine, however we describe that experience.
enjoy
ken
Systems like these, particularly with a 500, can generate phenomenal levels of bass energy that can easily catch out a speaker that has a naturally rising bass response more suited to a lesser system. Both the Arc and Compass are caught out quite badly.
I've seen many comments here on the Forum about how succesful the Shahinians are in other peoples systems but the common thread always seems to be that they are most succesful in the mid to lower systems, leading me to belive that the shortcomings of Shahinians are less noticeable in these systems but they are adding something or doing something that their owners are quite happy with.
I'm currently going through a re-evaluation of the MusicWorks mains block and leads which is making me feel like a bit of a fraud and hypocrit talking about this subject. Swapping between standard Naim leads (detail and bite) and the MusicWorks leads (coherence and flow) I recognise that the Naim leads are probably 'right' but I'm not quite so sure about which one I prefer. At least the MusicWorks leads bring something to the party. Right now I've got the Naim leads in and I suspect that they are the ones that are going to stay.
Allan
If you desire the full monty buy the bigger brothers and spend whatever it takes to make 'em work properly
2 more words of wisdom for ya.....
Think PMC or if you can afford the bigguns ATC
Charmed I'm sure
KILL ALL HERETICS
redeye
In retrospect the SBLs are mean, lean, fast speakers and, as several here have said, very good value for money (I flogged mine, mint, for £550 a few weeks ago; it was the most I could get; there are a lot around s/h). In the meantime I obsessively A/B'd the two speakers in my setup - 16ft x 14ft; 82/Hi/250/CDI/LP12/ARO/Geddon - typical 'mid' range stuff you know? The Shahinians trounced the SBLs on every conceivable front and, in the final analysis, were massively more musical and enjoyable. As for their 'smeary' bass, they plumbed depths the SBLs could only dream of - several synth notes on Gabriel's 'Ovo' wre completely absent when listening on the Naims...oh, and it was tight and fast also. Strangely enough, when going from a 72 to 82, the bass merely tightened and deepened, in contrast to the 'limitaions' and 'bottlenecks' mentioned above...No doubt if I got a 52 the whole thing would fall to bits?...better save myself a few quid then?
As with all things hi-fi, go and listen for yourself, and with an open mind. I compared SBLs and ARCs seven years ago and bought the SBLs because of brand loyalty (Naim are truly unbeatable for after-sales service, and this is important) and what I read in the hi-fi press. Now that I've been 'brave' enough to ignore all these other factors and go with my ears, I'm enjoying/listening to my hi-fi more than ever. You decide but, if it's bass depth/weight you want, then SBL vs ARC (or a lot of other speakers) is a no-brainer. If you want 'smeary' bass, try some Linn Saras; they're very cheap s/h as well!
my 2p, Steve
Allan
graphoman
"We have no plans for change or replacement of the SBL.
Complaints that the SBLs lack bass almost always are silenced by setting them up properly (or maintaining the correct setup) or fixing the source.
julian"
Cheers
Martin
Steve
Perhaps I should have expanded what I said a bit. I was referring to what I'd said earlier about how I thought the Shahinians bass sounded bloated and the detail smeared compared to SBLs. I had just presumed from what you said about the Shahinians trouncing SBLs in every way possible that you were hearing the exact opposite.
In my first post I had deliberately kept away from more subjective areas as I can easily understand how opinions can vary but thought the areas I touched upon were more 'absolute'. Obviously not. Thats why I was a bit surprised.
Allan
We should all bear in mind, when in evangelical mode, that the room-speaker interface is one of the most important. My SBLs never sounded good in one of my rooms, yet super in their final resting place. Ditto my experiences when taking the ARCs around to a friends house - they immediately sounded very different (lower ceilings, more soft furnishing around etc), much warmer. I suspect one of the reasons Kans sound so good in so may different environments is that their bass-light presentation (Oh God, here we go again...!) avoids the potentially tricky low frequency room interractions, which can be a pain with big speakers in small rooms. Many of us, I suspect, listen in relatively small rooms, into which we cram the hi-fi we aspire to; hi-fi is cheaper than housing after all! In my present listening room, with present decor (maple, steel, little soft furnishing etc) I'd expect the ARCs to tend towards a leaner, brighter sound than in the 'average' room, whatever that is. The overall balance is bright, but with a very deep, tight bass. Lots of brightness can be laid squarely at Naim's amplification door, remember.
Steve
I have recently listened to Arcs in a small room followed by a big room. Their performance improvement in the bigger room was striking.
Alex
Allan
quote:
the room-speaker interface is one of the most important
Tell me about it. I'm in the process of moving my system including sbls from a largish room with wooden floor to a much smaller room with concrete floor.
FWIW, I listened to sbls and arcs recently in the same room. I preferred the sbls and a friend clearly preferred the arcs.
Chris