New Brandenburg Issue.

Festival Strings Lucerne
Leitung: Rudolf Baumgartner


I have enjoyed every single Telemann or Bach performance I have heard from these players ...

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by naim_nymph:
it was not i that forgot to mention Adolf Scherbaum, but the SAGA record sleeve omitting any mention of who played the trumpet! (in the no.2).

Strange, since he is credited on the sleeve of my item of the Saga LP as well as the two other oboist´s in no.1 : Manfred Zeh and Hans-Heinrich Hinrichs.

quote:

But apart from the close delicacy of the flute play, i rather like the use of viola's instead of violins, this creates a smooth and rhythmic gate that I find easy to enjoy.

I am not quite sure, that I understand, what you mean. Where does the Newstone recording use viola´s where others use violins?

quote:

But i have another LP entitled Musique Royale ~ A Concert at the Cothen Court, and the trumpet playing here is much nicer imho than how it is played by who~ever with the Hamburg Chamber Orchestra.

1. Brandenburgisches Konzert no.2 F-dur BWV.1047

Adolf Scherbaum trompete
Hans-Martin Linde blockflote
Helmut Winschermann oboe
Rudolf Baumgartner violine

2. Brandenburgisches Konzert no.3 G-dur, BWV 1048

Festival Strings Lucerne
Leitung: Rudolf Baumgartner

The very same Adolf Scherbaum plays on both recordings. His contribution to the Baumgartner recording is certainly the best of the two. In the Newstone recording he is close to transforming the concerto to a trumpet concerto, I think. Between the years 1953 and 1965 he participated in about ten recordings of this work. He lived from 1909 to 2000 and was the most influential German trumpeter of his generation.

Regards, Poul

quote:

Originally posted by pe-zulu:
Strange, since he is credited on the sleeve of my item of the Saga LP as well as the two other oboist´s in no.1 : Manfred Zeh and Hans-Heinrich Hinrichs.

Both my saga LP's omit any mention of Adolf Scherbaum (or indeed any other trompete player).
Also not mentioned are Manfred Zeh and Hans-Heinrich Hinrichs.
Although, i can confirm hearing a trompete! ; )

quote:

I am not quite sure, that I understand, what you mean. Where does the Newstone recording use viola´s where others use violins?

Regards, Poul

Das Hamburger Kammerorchester ~ Harry Newstone

Friedrich Wuhrer: Leader
Fritz Poth: solo viola
Martin Ledig: 2nd solo viola (no.6)
Barna Bertholty: solo cello
Hans Roder & Erwin Grutzbach: viola de gamba
Gertrud Weitz: solo flute
Holger Villers: 2nd solo flute (no.4)
Heinz Nordbruch: solo oboe
Heinrich Keller: 1st horn
Gerd Haucke: 2nd horn
Karl Grebe: harpsichord (no.4)
Waldemar Dohling: harpsichord (no.5)

The above is all the performer imfomation my Saga LP's and sleeves have...
Perhaps there is something lost in translation?... or is Saga fiddling the truth? : )

kind regards

Deborah

Dear Naim Nymph/Debs you made the Festival Strings Lucerne sound interesting so I have ordered a copy on CD. I'm looking forward to hearing it
atb
Stephenjohn

Hello stephenjohn,

funny you should say this, because i've just oredered the cd (below) via amazon used £2.10 + £1.21 p&p.
That's very affordable, probably leave it in the car to play : )

Debs



Bach Brandenburg Concertos 2, 3 & 4. Orchestral Suite No.3 BWV 1068 [Import]

That is a coincidence, I ordered the exact same CD for £2.09 plus postage. I am very fond of No 1, I perhaps shphould ahve looked a bit harder and ordered this [IMG] http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/pro...184708&sr=1-24[/IMG]

Fantastic news!

EMI has re-issued the 1935/6 recordings of the Orchestral Suites and Brandenburg Concertos recorded in Abbey Road by the Adolf Busch Chamber Players.

It may be vintage in date but it is the ancestor of the HIP movement performances of today in so many ways, and has Adolf Busch's estimable musical judgement and human warmth to commend it as well. It is not slow, and it is not labouring the music in a romantic fashion. It is suitably scaled in almost [but not quite] every case, and the few old fashioned infelicities will soon be forgiven for so much that is fresh, vital, expressive and essentially life enhancing.

One to run beside any of the more modern sets, and realise that everything good nowadays had roots in something great from the past!



ATB from George

The lovely veteran set with Adolf Busch has come, and I am still waiting for the Pinnock set of Harpsichord concerti!

The new CDs of Busch sound even fresher minted than I remember them being from the LPs or original 1991 CDs*, and the playing all the more remarkable than it did when I first encountered it in 1985.

Not quite true for it was the recording of the Sixth Brandenburg Concerto on English Columbia 78s that made me so keen to get the LPs when EMI France re-issued them in their References series, which was then even more expensive than English HMV full priced issues. About 7 GBP per disc, which was a terrible price.

I ran through one set in six months and then ordered two more so as to guarantee against ware!

Thanks be for CDs I say!

Still looking forward to the Pinnock set, which I will write about in more detail.

ATB from George

* I note that the fine transfers from master parts have been remastered for this brand new issue by Andrew Walter, who is EMIs senior restoration man today, so it is possible that the sound actually is finer than the original CD release. That or my replay set based on iTunes is simply better than CD replay. A little of both I would suspect.

George, you say the Busch is faster. I had noted this in the Richter. Is this a characteristic on non-romantic recordings?
If so which romantic recording recomends itself for comparison?
best wishes
SJ

quote:

If so which romantic recording recomends itself for comparison?

As I know 98 % of the complete Brandenburg sets ever recorded I dare to say, that none of them is romantic in the strict sense of the word. Already the prewar pioneer´s Cortot and Busch must be cosidered pre-authentic and a kind of HIP for their age.

I completely agree with Poul in the sense that the massive symphony orchestra sized performances were already shown up by Cortot and Busch as being too heavy, and lacking the clarity [and therefore expession] that Bach's music really requires.

I would not advocate a very large scale for these pieces.

Furtwangler performed the Third and Fifth Brandenburgs in Vienna and Salzburg in the Bach Year Festivities in 1950, and these were recorded and issued by EMI [in recent years on CDs] in conjunction with the Salzburg Festival Archive.

In my view they were fascinating and extremely awkward all at once.

Not that one was not left marveling at how well the massed forces of the VPO managed to play so cleanly, as much as the thought that they actually did it at all with unreduced size of forces.

The cheif characteristic of the performances was their extreme slowness.

I think the First Movement of the Fifth Brandenburg was somethiong like twenty minutes on its own. The normal time for a performance of it might be given by considering that Busch's recording times at 11.05, 6.19, and 5.27 minutes in the three movements. Thus Busch makes a great expressive case for the music in a touch over two minutes longer than Furtwangler took over the First Movement alone.

It might be conceived that Furtwangler's view was somewhat exaggerated.

But for the romanticists there are two modern performances [ie from the last forty years] on regular modern symphony orchestras. One under von Karajan with the BPO on DG. Not my idea of enjoying Bach, but it has sold well over many years, and then Sir Adrian Boult with the LPO. This I think we can call Bach served up in Brahms sized loaves. I am a tremendous admirer of Boult, but this is one of his mis-shots. As a very old man EMI offered him to record anything he really wanted to. They must have shuddered at his choice!

He chose the Brandenburgs and set about bringing to life performances as he conceived then before 1914, though the recordings date from the early 1970s.

I think Poul may agree with that Benjamin Britten's English Chamber Orchestra recordings on Decca from the 1960s verge on the weightiness of the full symphonic sound, and may be classed as quazi-romantic. I would personally steer clear of them, but as with Karajan's recordings, they have their devotees.

If you get the chance try to listen to some of these in the context of some of the others discussed in this thread, and also the wonderful Pinnock set on DG, and see if you still want to search out the romantic in the music.

Soem people do, and I am all for people getting love Bach's music by whatever route, but you may find that the smaller scaled performing group and more virile style that Cortot and Busch pioneered, thus setting the table for the feast of HIP style performances now, may have a lot more to offer you in the longer run ...

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
The new CDs of Busch sound even fresher minted than I remember them being from the LPs or original 1991 CDs*, and the playing all the more remarkable than it did when I first encountered it in 1985.

I'm going though a bit of a Brandenburg phase at the moment, I think I might just add the Busch set to my shopping list. I'm after some nice alternatives to go along side Pinnock and Goebel. I quite take your point about RG's rather high octane approach. I've got the DG Goebel box set of Bach "chamber music" which includes some rather hair-raising performances... undeniably a thrill in some cases, but overall somewhat gratuitous! I still haven't heard Harnoncourt's later digital recording of the Brandenburgs, which I gather is quite something; I still find pleasure in his 1964 set, but it does sound unduly lugubrious in places now.

By the way, a little off topic I know but I recently acquired the new EMI Great Recordings re-master of the Busch Quartet's late Beethoven set, and the transfer is nothing short of alchemy!

EW

Dear Alex,

Great to read your words here again!

I receieved the Pinnock Harpsichord set of three CDs this morning, and I must tear myself away from them now to get a countersink before the shop closes!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Alex,

Great to read your words here again!

Hi George -

I know, I keep meaning to 'drop by', as it were, but I work 25 hours a day these days so it rarely happens!

There's always time for the Brandenburg concertos though, very few compositions are so effective in making me feel better about life! Think I'll pull the trigger on the Busch set, my beloved Pinnock set covers the period approach admirably. The EMI set is rather expensive for a historic recording, but what the hell, you only die once! Actually, hasn't Pinnock re-recorded the Brandenburgs in recent years? Anyone here heard it if yes?

Yeah, here we go:



Anyone know if it's any good??

I will send you an email about it. On balance I would stick with Pinnock's first DG recording.

ATB from George

This is superb in every way, and blows a few prejudices that even I still had about balancing a recording of the Harpsichord with a string chamber orchestra in the role as a concerto soloist.

The tonal qualities are as grand as one could wish. No clangy old Pleyel [early twentieth century steel framed harpsichord] sounds here! I think this is first rate, and the musicianship is very much as I would hope. Superb in my opinion.

Sadly I shall part with several long-term favourite recordings now from JM Pires and on the piano. I know that these are so much more illuminating and also immensely wide ranging from the light hearted to the most serious. This range is only enhanced using the intended instruments.

This set is completely eclipsing even these great and favourite artists when they play Bach on the piano.

I am bowled over, even more than with the Violin Concerto recording from the OotAotE. Not because of superior artistry, but that they have so completely blown away any remaining doubts I might have harboured about the Harpsichord in the context of the Concerto. My regret is waiting so long to get them. I could kick myself for that!

I always knew the Violin was the most beautiful Concertante solo instrument so the new Violin Concerto set is less of a surprise, but just as enjoyable.

I will try to actually describe some of the performances a little after a day or two.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:


This is superb in every way

Yep, I imagine it is so I've just pulled the trigger. Thanks for the tip! I've been listening to my beloved Murray Perahia with ASMF - truly marvelous - but want an alternative. Anyway, the recordings you recommend by Pinnock are available as part of a 5 CD set of Bach concertos so I went for it.

I'm still after some more recordings of the Brandenburg concertos though to go alongside the ones I've got by Harnoncourt (1964), Pinnock (the '80s one) and Goebel (the high octane one!)... I rather fancy the Busch, especially since I've been so impressed by EMI's recent historic transfers, but it's stupidly expensive for an old recording. Hopefully Naxos have it in their sights...! Anyway, I gather Richard Eggar has a recording of the Brandenburgs out there so I might just have me a listen to that. I was out driving somewhere the other day when I heard him playing some Purcell harpsichord pieces and I was most impressed!

Other than that, Rachel Podger remains horribly underrepresented in my collection so I might just address this issue since I'm going through a bit of a Bach and Pinnock phase at the moment. I really like this period instrument Bach these days, it's very hip and a la mode... I do just wonder though if they make everything sound a wee bit too chirpy, too sort of bouncy? Perhaps there should be more shadows, if you know what I mean? Still, it's very uplifting and tremendously enjoyable!

EW

Dear Alex,

I really hope you enjoy the set.

Let us know what your reaction is to it, if you like!

As for the HIP style of performance seeming to occasionally miss the serious or spiritual element to a small or great degree, I hope that you will join me as this thread developes, considering this exact point, on which I have a very strong view, but a view that really is only applicable to my own taste in music in any absolute sense. Therefore I shall have no problem being entirely disagreed with!

As for the other two discs of the Bach Concertos from Pinnock not contained in the 3 disc set of complete keyboard concertos, [which I showed the picture of] but conatined in the bigger set you mention, I already have the one including the Oboe d'Amoure Concerto in A [with David Reichenberg as estimable soloist], and the remaining works are well covered in other recordings that I have, so the less large set was perfect for me.

ATB from George

Although I know nothing of importance when it comes to classical music, I do think this collection is rather good.

J.S.Bach - Brandenburg Concertos 1–6;
Concerto for violin and oboe BWV1060;
Concerto for 2 harpsichords BWV1062;
Concerto for 3 violins BWV1064

The Academy of Ancient Music directed by Christopher Hogwood

Catherine Mackintosh - Violin
Christopher Hirons - Violin
Monica Huggett - Violin
Stephen Hammer - Oboe
Christophe Rousset - Harpsichord
Christopher Hogwood - Harpsichord

Decca L’Oiseau-Lyre 455 700-2

However if it has Mr Hogwood on any recording then I'm always willing to listen.

ATB Rotf

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
As for the HIP style of performance seeming to occasionally miss the serious or spiritual element to a small or great degree, I hope that you will join me as this thread developes, considering this exact point, on which I have a very strong view, but a view that really is only applicable to my own taste in music in any absolute sense. Therefore I shall have no problem being entirely disagreed with!

Weeeell, I overstated my "reservations" above, I love period performances hence there's so much of it in my collection! Also on its way is Viktoria Mullova's new recording of the Sonatas and Partitas on period violin. I've got Monica Huggett's too, which is great apart from a certain lack of stature in places (i.e. the chaconne), and I'll have a listen to Podger too at some point. I recently got CD2 of her recording of the sonatas for keyboard and violin with Pinnock, CD1 being missing due to a cockup at Amazon! (I downloaded because I was desperate for it and it was cheap... ah well.) Very very nice, although as with Pinnock's revelatory recording of the partitas, the engineers seem to have stuck the microphones right under the artists' noses and cranked the level, hence it sounds absolutely HUGE!

I think just occasionally though, this new rather sprightly approach has now and then led to a neglect of some of the shadows. I wouldn't like to go back to the rather stiff and solemn procedures of yesteryear, but some of these new period performances are just bouncing around all over the place! (Hear Harnoncourt's later recordings of the Bach Passions for a fine example of how rhythmic drive and high poetry can go hand in hand.) Pinnock though does sometimes play like his pants are on fire!