The unexpected
Posted by: Den on 15 March 2002
Dear all,
I recently made the step to a balanced set-up by replacing the Nait5 by a NAC82 with single Hicap. Now I have a fantastic set-up consisting of CDX, NAC82 with Hicap and NAP180. The step from Nait5 (as a pre) to a NAC82 was huge. Especially dynamics improved a lot.
Only my old Cable Talk 3.1 biwire speaker cable did survive all the upgrades. Since I had spend so much money I thought it wouldn't make any sense not to buy NACA5, so last week I went to my dealer. When I came home with 2*4m cable with original Naim plugs I immediately installed it and was prepared for the improvement. Last evening I took the NACA5 out of the system. Now I use the Cable Talk again and in my opinion it's so much better. The NACA5 is dull in comparison. the Cable Talk is much, much more transparent, gives much, much more detail and even the baselines are much tighter and dynamics are better.
I really don't understand how this is possible, cause you guys (and woman) always have stated that together with Naim amps there is nothing better than NACA5. Since Naim designs there amps with NACA5 connected this makes sense to me too. It just doesn't seem to work for me. Maybe it's because of my speakers (are disigned with biwiring in mind). Maybe NACA5 works best when also Naim speakers are connected???
Dennis
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Hammerhead
Dennis,
Put your NACA5 back into your system - it takes time to 'burn in' just like the components.
Steve
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Frank Abela
Biwiring a Naim amp is a bad move. The Naim dealer should have warned you against this. You should single wire only. At least it's 4m long which is more than the minimum required.
Also, the cable burns in over a period of time - about a week.
Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Dave J
Hi Frank,
I'd like to try the Andy Weekes 'bi-wire' tip using a single NACA 5 cable but, of course, in my case (Briks)it would need to be tri-wired. Being a clutz when it comes to doing these things, do you know of anyone who can supply/make up a set?
Many thanks
Dave
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by ken c
den, it also matters a great deal if the naim plugs are soldered properly onto the cable. i know this from experience of a poorly done job last year -- ruined my system.
do a search using "naim plugs" as text and i am sure you will find something useful. if you dont let me know and i will try to dig something out for you...
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Den
Isn't it just possible that in my case, with my speakers and my ears, Cable Talk Biwire does a better job?
I think NACA5 will improve over time. It did the last week, but I am not talking about subtle differences. This is about night and day.
Dennis
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by herm
doctrinaire responseHi Frank,
I know the idea is not to biwire out of a Naim amp, but your response doesn't make 100% sense to me.
Dennis is saying his old bi-wire cable makes better music than the NACA5. Maybe this is because of burn-in, but still he likes the sound of the bi-wired cable - even though he shouldn't in theory.
So shouldn't you tell him / us why biwiring is no good?
Herman
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Phil Barry
Yes, it's possible that you just like the cable talk, but that would be pretty wierd, which is not necessarily bad.
My own speakers sounded better bi-wired (Kimber mid-level) with MF, and about 4 other amps, so I kept them bi-wired when I got Naim amps.
Then I single-wired them. The difference was not subtle.
BTW, since I'm not set up for industrial work, I went into the speakers' terminal blocks and connected both sets of wires to one set of terminals.
Phil
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Hammerhead
Dennis,
Just looked at your website listed in your profile - those speakers and separate crossover boxes look very interesting. Tell us more about them!
Regards,
Steve
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Den
Steve,
They are 2-way ported disigns. Drivers are from Scanspeak. Tweeter is the well known Revelator. This is the fastest tweeter I have ever heard. The 17 cm bas/mid driver is from coated kevlar. Very detailed and Very fast too. Front is 3cm massive cherrie glued on 3 cm MDF. The rest of the cabinet is also 3 cm MDF. Tweeter and driver have there own houses. The crossover is external in a seperate box filled with sand the reduce vibrations. The lowest box is just a stand filled with sand too.
Dennis
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by billyj
Dennis,
I can appreciate what you say about nac5, as I recently changed from chord cable and went to the naim NAC5 and found it a disapointment so I phoned naim direct , who advised me to put it back on and be patient, they also stated that using other cable on a naim system could damage your naim equipment. So my advice to you is get used to the NAC5.
Good luck
billyj PS It does get better.
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by herm
Dangerous Like How?Hi BillyJ,
so the sound is not as good as your bi-wire, but Naim says single-wire is better, and then you just do it, saying to yourself A) it gets "better", and B) you're damn lucky the whole caboodle didn't explode in your face?
Mind you, I'm not saying NACA5 is no good. I haven't used it. But up till now no one has said it actually sounds better; everyone is saying you just have to do it, because the manufactor says so. (Usually this makes sense, unless it doesn't.)
Herman
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by billyj
HI Herm
I guess that I just like to take the advice of the manufacturer, and as I said I myself used high quality chord cable that sounded great, but if you give the naim cable time to bed in it gets better, and the fact is that NAIM has stated that the nac5 is an extention to the system and that if you use another brand it can cause damage to the system that is what they told me and I really dont think they would say that for nothing, there is a more technical explanation but you will have to through that open to the experts on the forum or phone Naim yourself.
regards
billyj
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by sonofcolin
Do you have the cable installed correctly. It is directional (arrows lead from power to cross over).
As advised, give it some time.
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by ken c
quote:
Originally posted by Den:
Isn't it just possible that in my case, with my speakers and my ears, Cable Talk Biwire does a better job?Dennis
entirely possible. but my point was it would be unfortunate the reach this conclusion when in fact the naca5's are not terminated properly.
how much is the cable talk compared to naca5?
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Andy Kirby
quote:
I think NACA5 will improve over time. It did the last week, but I am not talking about subtle differences. This is about night and day.
I have recently installed NAC5 with new, to me SBL's replacing Sara's and Linn LK100, a NAC4 rip off, I am led to believe.
The sound when I settled down to listen, after a morning spent repositioning the rack and re-building the SBL's was nothing short of awful. I was bitterly disappointed. I decided to be patient, after all perceived wisdom on the forum is that it takes a while and after checking everything obvious I topped tinkering. After a day or two they started to sound better then after five days I found myself dancing around the living room to an old Del Amitri song I had put on, and it is years since I did that 
It has been a little over a week now and the burn in seems to be continuing and the difference between now and then is like Night and Day. I think that this will continue of a while longer, there does seem to be more to come.
I think you should give the NAC5 a little longer to settle in before making a judgment, after all you can always go back at no cost later. I will live with my new speaker for another week or so and then try the sara's again, however I think they will end up in the loft and the SBL's will stay.
My 2c's worth.
Cheers
Andy
