What would you do?

Hmm...this sounds like fun...may I add a fourth pair?

quote:

Originally posted by JamieWednesday:
The amount was correct and as agreed, he charged me the correct amount. He believes he should have charged more for this particular model because he forgot which version it was and it carries a £250 premium (which he says he'll knock back to £200). That's all.

quote:

However, having now seen his mark up on my traded gear (80% on one item and 120% on the other!!). Then he can go swing. I understand the needs of a trader in any market and he might not sell on very quickly, but both are polular and quality products in mint nick and he's asking more than double what he gave me. He can take is £200 out of that!

End of..

OK, what about the guy who traded in the item that you've just bought? The dealer must have priced his offer based on what he thought he was buying (before doubling the price to sell it to you).

Ask him how much of that £200 he's going to repay to the guy he short-changed when it was traded in.

Let's face it - he's just going to pocket the lot.

cheers, Martin

Martin,

The kit that Jamie bought was ex-dem, not second hand

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
The kit that Jamie bought was ex-dem, not second hand

Don,

well spotted!

Best to ignore my comment above, then!

cheers, Martin

"The kit that Jamie bought was ex-dem, not second hand"

Of course, the price of ex-dem stuff isn't fixed, it is negotiable.

Is the price of new kit (in the UK) fixed, or is that also negotiable?

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:

quote:

Originally posted by JeremyD:
For me, keeping the kit but not paying the extra would be a source of great and prolonged stress because I see it as unethical.

Bollocks.

And a second pair from me.

Jeremy, do try and get a grip. Let's look at it this way: The highwayman has just robbed you. But you want to volunteer a donation to Ye Olde Highwayman's Retirement Fund? How odd.

Argh!! Sorry. Please don't castrate yourselves on my account: I think my brain was off-line for essential maintenance when I wrote my first post, which made your interpretation of my second post understandable.

Under almost all possible circumstances I would want to return the kit for refund AND switch to a different dealer.

quote:

Originally posted by JeremyD:
I think it depends on your personality and your personal ethics. For me, keeping the kit but not paying the extra would be a source of great and prolonged stress because I see it as unethical.

Why? This does not make sense to me. A price was agreed between the dealer and you. The dealer invoiced and you paid. End of story. So, the dealer made a mistake. Then it is his loss to bear, he is a big boy, win some lose some as they say.

Whatever next? I sell you a widget today for $5. Would you pay me another $5 if I phoned you tomorrow to say that I had got it wrong? The dealer is in business. Remember that. I am in business. If I price something up wrong then that is my error and I live with it. I may mention to a client that I have underpriced but do not expect such a good deal next time!

Michael,

My first post did not say what I meant, and what I meant was, anyway, a product of flawed thinking.

My second post did say what I meant but it was misinterpreted, which hardly matters since it was also a product of flawed thinking.

Given what we know about the case, I would in almost all possible circumstances (as I said in my third post - the post above yours) want to return the kit for a refund, and use a different dealer in future.

Jamie

Any lawyer would tell you - and, more importantly, the dealer - that he (the dealer) doesn't have a leg to stand on. Inform him, as politely as you, think appropriate, to get lost. Morals are really not an issue here.

And use a competent, and sensible, dealer next time.

Graham

So what's happened then. This is by far the most interesting thing (for me that is) on the forum for ages!

Nothing's happened yet. He left another message saying he was going on holiday can I call someone else there to arrange payment!!!

Frankly I'm fairly busy and can't really be arsed to deal with him anyway. I will not be paying any extra. When I do speak to him I'll let you know the circumstances.

For those who have asked or implied they'd like more detail of the transactions:

The purchase was a TT. A T+A G10s. Which really is a nice bit of kit (although it looks a bit odd)

I had originally emailed the dealer via their website about an advertised ex dem G10s with details of my proposed trade ins (a mint Rega Planar3 with Elys and a Theta Cobalt Dac). He called me to say the advertised deck was likely to be bought by another customer but he had another ex-dem one available, although this had an inbuilt phono stage so would cost more. He asked for £2100 plus my items. In hindsight, why they had two on demo is a mystery.

After demo for a few days, I agreed to purchase by phone at which point he confirmed the price again.

Couple of days later I went in with my stuff and paid the £2100 to him directly (I noticed he had the original email with £125 written next to my Rega and £175 next to the DAC and £2100 written down as well).

This week he's left his messages saying he forgot the TT included the phono stage(?!)which is another £250 and I've checked the website to see the Rega up for £225 and the DAC at £395 (which just takes the p*ss).

It's certainly true that the RRP adds £250 for the phono stage, but he knew full well the deck he was supplying had this and made a point at the start of discussions that he would be charging me a higher price from the start (and all along) than the deck without it!

Bizarre.

I'm tempted to ask you to name the dealer, but know full well that that's a line that neither you nor Naim would want to cross. Still, big hints would be useful (so that we can work out who it is)...

Dead exciting this (well, more exciting than the alternative is at the mo (work))...

John

Which dealer has a P3 for £225 and a DAC for £395 should tell you.

Howard

At £2100 he has already made around a grand.

Seriously I would be fuming about this.

What did the deck come with? Did it have an arm and cartridge for the price?

Yes it is normally sold as a complete package with an SME M2 arm and a Benz cartridge. Inbuilt phono stage is an option (as of course Naim used to do with Linn...)Original price he quoted for ex dem is fair and I was happy to pay it. It's just the follow up and comeback that I don't need.

I did actually pop in today as I ended up in town after all, another chap I'd not seen before was there, took it on the chin gracefully, mentioned he'd recently been out to T&A's factory himself. Didn't have time to stop and discuss further but I wonder if he is someone from this particular shop's parent company in West End?

NB. As it's been mentioned a couple of times already, I should just mention that Naim shouldn't and wouldn't be concerned as this transaction did not concern Naim kit and I believe the dealer is not Naim registered at the moment

quote:

Originally posted by JamieWednesday:

I did actually pop in today as I ended up in town after all, another chap I'd not seen before was there, took it on the chin gracefully, mentioned he'd recently been out to T&A's factory himself. Didn't have time to stop and discuss further but I wonder if he is someone from this particular shop's parent company in West End?

Sorry Jamie. Are you saying you went in to the store and explained the situ?

Jay

quote:

and made a point at the start of discussions that he would be charging me a higher price from the start (and all along) than the deck without it!

How much was he asking on the web-site for the first ex-demo TT (without the phono stage)

Cheers

Don

Touche Mike Touche

Chaps, thanks for all your input.

As you know I decided not to pay anymore and unless they do something to change my mind, am unlikely to use the dealer again. Recs. for future alternates would be appreciated!

I'm going to leave the topic now as what was originally an intended debate about the way forward is in danger of becoming a one-sided rant and attack!

Cheers

Fair point Jamie. But its only the way it is.

Jamie,
The dealer you are talking about is quite notorious for questionable integrity and ethics. He only payed a friend for a commission sale item that he sold on my friends behalf when threatened wtih legal action.
What is the returns policy? I could be tempted to return the deck ask for your items back, put them on e-bay and source the deck elsewhere. I can think of another dealer that would probably have one if that is the deck you want.
David

Jamie

I gave some (fairly short) legal advice the other day, in which I said that the dealer should go f*ck and that morals don't come into it.

Let me explain myself slightly more fully.

There were just too many disputes, such as yours, going on at the end of the the great mercantile revolution here, such that Paliament intervened with the original Sale of Goods Act, towards the end of the 19th Century. Essentially, this imposed legal rights and obligations on all sales, as opposed to any customary, or even moral, obligations between buyers and sellers. Those principles exist to this day.

So, if you agreed a price for the TT and paid it, the dealer cannot come back after the event.

The law is clear, and your dealer cannot try to superimpose any sort of "moral" pressure.

Just tell him to go away, as politely as you deem appropriate!

Graham

Well you can get these decks for around what the poster paid, taking into account the trade in on the old stuff I would say the dealer should go blow.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T-A-G10-G10S-TURNTABLE-EX-DISPLAY...yZ3283QQcmdZViewItem