Andrew Marr's History of Great Britian

quote:

This programme is worth watching because some of you will never believe the damage the unions did to this country before she took them on and of course won.

It's just a shame the country didn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Chaps


Tonight is about Margaret Thatcher. It is about the mess she inherited and how she turned the country around and of course the way she was eventually kicked out.

Missed it Mick - did it describe the mess she left the country in?

Rich

quote:

Missed it Mick - did it describe the mess she left the country in?

It is a documentary so, no.

Jim

Rich

Actually the conclusion was completely the opposite, we are all Maggies children and we are still enjoying her legacy.

Overall she came out of the programme far better than previous prime Ministers.

Regards

Mick

Textbook Parry

chipa

Did you actually watch the programm ?

Regards

Mick

Mick,

I apologise for posting on your thread when I had nothing of worth to add.

No I did not watch it - the chances of me watching a programme about Margaret Thatcher are nil.

All the best.

That was a good programme - it's a shame I haven't watched the previous ones. I shall have to look for the repeats.

Michael

The entire series has been excellent, without doubt one of the better programmes on TV.

The point made by Marr is reflected in tonights news that Fords are going to have to shed thousands of jobs because the American economy is in a mess. The Yanks are in the same position that we were in the seventies, paying themselves too high wages, low productivity and very often crap quality. They also protect their home industries by tarrifs which drives up their own internal cost.

On the other hand, volume car production in the UK is booming. Honda and Nissan are forging ahead whilst Fords future looks decidedly a mess.

They need a Maggie and we were fortunate to have had ours 20 years ago.

Regards

Mick

Dear Mick,

People would have to have to have to be there when the lights were going out, the bins were not collected, and the trains did not run - because of the Union strangle-hold on the old Monopoly Nationalised Industries like Rail, BMC/BL, Steel, Coal, and Electricity - to understand how necesaary was what Mrs T actually did.

No Mrs T had her good points. I am not so loyal to her as you, but even without a television, and so not seeing the program, it is actually a "revisionist falsehood" to deny that crushing the Unions was a good and necessary [though undoubtedly painfull] thing. I am inclined to the view that Tony Blair has taken what she started too far the other way, though without her care for the PSBR, which is no longer interesting because the PFI style of finacing [which mortguages all our futures and we don't even own the assets at the end] public investment in schools and hospitals, for examples, is neatly "officially" outside the PSBR, but the idea that Mr Brown has been prudent with our national finances is a myth that I understand eminated from his own fair self!

ATB from Fredrik

Greetings fredrik, I hope you are keeping well.

The main point I am making is that in the main, this programme gave Maggie a pretty good review.

I am convinced that history will judge her much better than we do.

Regards

Mick

I am sure you are right, unless the whole of Europe falls back under the influence of the now completely discredited Communism that was the blight of the Eastern Block for the last sixty years...

Fingers crossed. I don't think the Poles will be reverting! Mr Stalin commented that trying to enforce true Commuinism in Poland would be like trying to saddle and ride a cow!

ATB from Fredrik

Note the proper edition above now, sorry!

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:


I am convinced that history will judge her much better than we do.

Somehow I doubt that history will judge her better than you do Mick.

Rich

better watch it mick old top or i may start a ronnie reagan thread ....

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Dear Mick,

People would have to have to have to be there when the lights were going out, the bins were not collected, and the trains did not run - because of the Union strangle-hold on the old Monopoly Nationalised Industries like Rail, BMC/BL, Steel, Coal, and Electricity - to understand how necesaary was what Mrs T actually did.


ATB from Fredrik

Absolutely right Fredrik, I remeber walking through the snow (!) to take my mock O levels in an otherwise empty and un-heated school, no oil deliveries anywhere.

The other main points Marr made were that she was very lucky at the right time, unless she organised the north sea oil boom, the Falklands war and the IRA bombing at Brighton. What she did do well was exploit these events and profit from them.

Also in the end the fact that we now live in country that embraces debt as a good thing, leading to a "have it now at any cost" culture is in direct opposition to the things she wanted.

Even killing coal mining in the UK means we have 300+ years of reserves awaiting future generations to enjoy if needs be, but that is a bit tenuous and not the reasoning or out-come expected.

Jono

P.S. I am at 44, today, most definitly one of "her children".

I have still to watch the Andrew Marr programs - however I would have expected him to overall be critical of Maggie - Marr had a reputation of being sympathetic to Labour when he was the political correspondant of the Beeb

Chaps

The main reason why Andrew Marr gave Maggie a good report was because of her tenacity. She knew that her monetarist policies would eventually win throught but in the meantime, interest rates were high, unemployment grew, inflation went up and we had uncivil rest in the inner cities.

The one thing that seperated her from all of the previous Prime Ministers was her determination to stick to her guns. She was becoming decidedly unpopular and was certain to lose the next election. Other PM's would have ordered the Chancellor to do some economic doctoring in order to win popularity, but she carried on. That took guts and conviction.

Today we all enjoy the benefits of her legacy and only a complete idiot would want to return to a society similar to the one she inherited.

Marr gave her a good assesment because she deserved it.

Regards

Mick

quote:

Originally posted by Derek Wright:
I have still to watch the Andrew Marr programs - however I would have expected him to overall be critical of Maggie - Marr had a reputation of being sympathetic to Labour when he was the political correspondant of the Beeb

So he would have faulted her if he could, I would think.

ATB from Fredrik

I must admit that whilst watching this I thought that it would bring a smile to Mick's face. Equally I was surprised how even handed and almost appreciative of Maggie Andrew Marr was. That was something I did not expect.

Seeing all the historical footage brought back many memories, but seeing Scargill my immediate reaction was what a dinosaur. He ruined the lives of many decent people who unfortunately followed his agenda to the total destruction of the industry, rather than reform. This split communities and families and caused real hardship in many parts of the country.

Maggie did benefit from the spin off of the various dividends already mentioned, that coincided with her tenure, but she certainly held firm to her beliefs.

Regards

Nic

Mick,

You need to learn how to think critically.

Regards.

Phil Barry

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Barry:
Mick,

You need to learn how to think critically.

Well....calculation is all you need for business, isn't it?

Thinking is for rioters and other pinko liberals....

quote:

Missed it Mick - did it describe the mess she left the country in?

Rich

That will be in the next episode.

It has been pretty even-handed, and in several respects full of real insights. For example, the 1950s had been portrayed by the last Conservative government as a golden age where everyone behaved themselves in nice middle-class Britain, knew how to spell (unlike some company directors today), went to church etc etc. He rightly showed the link between the scandals and shambles at the top under Eden and Macmillan and the dark undercurrents of life in 50s Britain, leading as they did to the further problems of the 60s and 70s.

In two respects I don't quite see it though: firstly, life in the late 60s and early 70s, in my recollection, was actually quite laid-back, enjoyable and full of stimulation (of various kinds) - not quite the era of total social collapse he depicts. And as far as the 'we are all Thatcher's children' remark - there are plenty of people who'd dispute that! In fairness, he did point out the poverty and the underclass created by the 1980s. And the fact that Thatcher went bonkers at the end.

quote:

Missed it Mick - did it describe the mess she left the country in?

Rich

Rich

Anyone who thinks the country was in a better state before she took over compared to how she left it must be completely mad.

She pruned out a lot of dead wood but it had to be done.

Regards

Mick

Thinking of post-Maggie Britain, I think her most incidious legacy is summed up neatly by her own words (to 'Women's Own' magazine, 31st October 1987),

"There's no such thing as society".

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Perhaps she thought she was talking about aspiration, self-help and self-reliance - the 'Tebbitt's fathers' of this world pulling themselves up by the bootstraps (or bike pedals).

But the real legacy of 'looking after no.1', yuppies, loadsamoney, and denuding whole communities of the very reason for their existence (mines, ships, steel, etc) is the birth - ultimately - of the nasty, selfish, modern British 'me' culture, where 'I can do what I want, and if you don't like it, f*ck you' with so sense of shared life or responsibility.

It seems ironic that she who is remembered as the 'Iron Lady' in fact laid the foundations for the shambles. And of course what Maggie started, Blair has just continued, so her "victory is complete".

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:

the nasty, selfish, modern British 'me' culture, where 'I can do what I want, and if you don't like it, f*ck you'

Mick

Don't you think that this, while harsh, pretty much sums up the business community and most of its members?

Deane