Naim Frame- how good is it? and what improvements?

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Originally posted by Thomas K:
a similarly sophisticated level of levelitude

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Love it!

Markus

you leave him alone (and his Fraim)

naheed. . .

Hi Alan,

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I believe Hermann has a big stack of mana in Germany

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I'm sure his sistem (or is it a system?) sounds amazing. I've seen the pictures and I think I calculated that his stands must have cost in excess of 10 thousand euros! In the truest sense, no contest!

Thomas

I think that there are some very valuable points raised in this discussion. In particular with respect to setting up of supports. I have been a Mana useer for some time having been given a 5 tier amp stand as a present. I have always had a nagging suspicion that I can't get the best out of it. As there is supposed to be a mana effect I've tended to feel that I'm missing something. I've now reached the point that it is perhaps better for me to have a different rack so that I can fit and forget, I'll be trying isoblue on Friday for that very reason. It may not reach the highs that mana can but the insecurity of being able to attain those highs is putting me off.

Brendan

From my own personal experience, brightness with Mana supports usually stems from overtightening of the nuts on the various spikes. I always got best results from a tiny amount tighter than finger-tight.

The lesson is: brightness comes from tightness where Mana is concerned.

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

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So then, Thomas, you don't think Mana sounds bright and hard?

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In my limited experience, not at all. I found the Soundframes under my power amps did sound slightly forward, whereas the Soundbases under my SBLs actually do the opposite; "recessed" would have everyone up in arms, so I'll just say it creates a more realistic soundstage (i.e. it affords a better overview of the stage/players).

However, both massivley changed the tonal balance -- I honestly can't say whether this is "colouring" or not.

I found the Fraim extended the frequency range at the extremes without imposing any other major tonal changes.

BTW, Marco, when I said "In the truest sense, no contest!" I meant comparing Hermann's and my system would not be of much use in terms of a value-for-money stand comparison -- apart from the usual factors (room, components, mains etc.) Hermann's stands probably cost more than three or four times as much as mine. Apples and pears.

In all honesty, I can imagine it sounds fabulous. The large room and all that Mana probably make for excellent dynamics.

Thomas

[This message was edited by Thomas K on WEDNESDAY 25 June 2003 at 13:56.]

The point with Mana is that it is probably not difficult to set up if you know what to do, I guess that goes for a lot of things in life. However, if you can not tell what to look and listen for then even with lots of effort it must be possible to miss the objective. that is sometimes what I think I have done.

Now if there was a setting up service at a modest price that could help things.

I'm looking forward to trying isoblue as a complete contrast on both sound and ease of setting up. If I don't like it then I'll be adding some soundstages to my amp stand and asking for volunters in the Midlands to help me set up.

Brendan

I found my Mana easier to set up onto a concrete floor. At my previous house, which had a suspended wooden floor, I have to do a fresh set up every 12 months or so, although I accept that could be due to unplugging - re pluggin in....

I didn't find Mana too bright or hard at all.

I did find it too fast, however.

Don't mind me, I'm weird.

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From my own personal experience, brightness with Mana supports usually stems from overtightening of the nuts on the various spikes.

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Agreed..though I wonder how much of the load imposed by the settling rack and boxes increases the "pressure" against (or "tightness" of) the lower stand nuts making the stand now out-of-spec with regards to JW's specified amount of nut torque (and consequently the positive attributes of this stand's sound...for some of us)

regards,

dave

Hi,
Interesting thread. My question is simple (I hope). I have a Mana 6 shelf rack, with one soundbase underneath. I also use a soundstage (or whatever the correct name is) underneath my SBL's (I'm not changing those whatever - too good an improvement!)
Total cost around £800.00 (Ish).
If I were to change to the Fraim it would cost me nearer £2000.00, To those of you that have changed:
did the upgrde create twice as much of an improvement bearing in mind the price differance?
was the fraim easier to set up and maintain (Including dusting!) than the Mana?

My wife certainly prefers the look of the Fraim, but same as me questioned the cost. She has also sanctioned an upgrade (After a blinding demo at Cymbiosis-Leicester) to the CDX2 so It pays for me to listen to her sometimes (LOL )

Regards,
Andy


Cd3.5-Hicap-102(Napsc)-flatcap-180-Sbl's

[This message was edited by andy c on FRIDAY 27 June 2003 at 11:18.]

Hi Andy,

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did the upgrde create twice as much of an improvement bearing in mind the price differance?

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Tough to answer--if (the Mana) were unlistenable (as in my case)...the answer is yes. If not...only you can answer that one. Maybe your dealer could loan you a Fraim for a week. After setting up the Fraim, give it three hours for sonic break-in (which is rather dramatic btw).

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was the fraim easier to set up and maintain (Including dusting!) than the Mana?

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Dusting? The Fraim has less space between shelves than the Mana...personally I don't inspect the extremely narrow gap between my casework tops and Fraim shelf bottoms so I never actually see the dust ;-0

Setup..no question, the Fraim is a piece of cake. The Fraim's setup per Naim is easily achievable and remains consistant (one exception being the nut torque which may need nipping up once or twice a year yet easy to do...this is also a good time to dust the case tops ;-)

hope this helps...

dave

P.S. Regardless of the above, if the budget will allow for Fraim, it is a MUST audition. No other stand is close to this level of performance.

What is the site for Quadraspire?anyone knows?

MY system : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Naim cd 5 ,Epos M 15 speakers,Naca5,FC2

Stallion--

As I remember, the importer Chris Bell refers to was nearly universally praised for his ability to set up Mana correctly. So I doubt improper setup was the issue.

As someone who tried Mana LONG ago and did not like it, I well remember all the vitriol (pointlessly) spilled. You've come a LONG way to now be at "that's my opinion." Congratulations.

Best,

Bob

Takes Dave's advice and get a Fraim home demo, but also consider two extra soundstages for your main rack (will provide you with Phase 4 Mana).

For me that level of Mana, kicks the shit out of the Fraim in every respect, the Fraim is Laim in comparison.

BUT thats to my ears, so use your own, and don't follow the crowd/forums

naheed. . .

Dave,
Thanks for the advice. Is it me tho or is it sometimes difficult to get dealers to part with supports for demo only?

Naheed,
Completely forgot about the option of further soundstages! (Doh). I also take notice of whats on the form, but don't follow it totally! Its a good point you make (said in a yoda type voice lol).
If I had i would not have changed all my power leads, speaker cables and interconnects to Kimber...
Thanks..
Andy

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Dave,
Thanks for the advice. Is it me tho or is it sometimes difficult to get dealers to part with supports for demo only?

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You're welcome Andy,

Yep...I think some of these guys (dealers)forget what they're all about sometimes. I know it's a pain (uprooting racks never mind whole systems), yet it's all about being the best at what you do.

good luck,

dave

Andy,

So you would like to try a Fraim - no problem! Happy to help - Please just let me know when you would like to do it.

Best regards,

Peter (Your slightly insomniac local guy)

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Originally posted by Stallion:

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Originally posted by dave simpson:


No other stand is close to this level of performance.

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What??

That's complete and utter rubbish, Dave.

Come on, try to be more objective; it's not too difficult.

Marco.

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Now, now Marco...

If I were more "objective"...someone would simply accuse my of being indecisive

regards,

dave


P.S. Good job in rocking the boat elsewhere.