Do you play an instrument and if so how does it impact on the way you listen?.

Yere, Kitty-kitty ... {:¬)

I play badly but not as badly as some I see getting paid for it. I don't think it impacts the way I listen, but I do recognise various chord patterns and scales.

It is impossible to say whether playing music will affect another in the way they listen to music. It might, or it might not. Many who play maintain that it does change things, but it cannot possibly be a cast iron rule that it does.

Starting from that point, I was listening to the classics from the age of nine, and playing the piano from the age of ten. I would say that I am not a piano player. In fact my listening destroyed my piano playing, as my efforts seemed hopeless after listening to records of Barenboim, Gilels, Schnabel and so on. I never thought I would get good enough to want to play for others, and in reality never did!

So at the age of thirteen I managed to stop having lessons! I continued to listen to music, and this listening was uninformed by my playing I am sure, But ...

I so wanted to play music in the orchestral setting, and especially a stringed instrument. In my early twenties I attended some amateur string orchestral rehearsals, and noted the lack of a double bass, which happened to be an instrument that played what I always thought was a fascinating line in music. By this stage I probably owned over 100 LPs, and listened to everything possible on Radio Three. I was taking in new music [to me] very fast, and when I mentioned the possibility of learning the bass to the conductor, I did not expect that anything would come of it.

She gave me the name of a potential teacher, and I made contact and did a test to ascertain whether I had an accurate ear for pitch, which is crucial if you are going to play any instrument where the pitch is controlled by the player, and utterly crucial on unfretted stringed instruments. As it happened my ability to discern pitch proved accurate. So I bought a double bass from Footes in Golden Square, and a bow, and started to have lessons. Within twelve months I had played in two concerts. Not every note, but more than enough to be an asset to the orchestra, who used my teacher as the first bass.

Over the next two years I was handed on twice to new and better teachers, My last teacher was the first bass player in the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, and only four years after starting I was invited to play professionally in a freelance capacity. After only five years I was teaching students to Grade Seven in a fine music school, even though I had never done any Grade Exam except Music Theory!

Did this affect my listening? Of course it did. There is nothing like playing in ensemble to begin to understand the significance of it!

But it is not essential to play to enjoy music. I started to play, because I enjoyed music in the first place! Did my enjoyment of music show in my playing? Probably! Did it motivate me to play to my best? Certainly!

Did it mean I was a better listener? I don't know! But I do know that it changed the way I listen. I can never get bored with music I dislike, at least at a live performance. I am compelled to listen intently by some inner force, and that grew stronger once I started to play.

Now my playing is finished, my listening has altered again, not least because I now have time to really study the music that I love best!

I don't think there are any conclusions to draw, and I don't think players are necessarily better or worse listeners. The best listeners are those who love music with all their heart.

For me listening become a "more physical" thing once I had played in concerts though. The tensions and releases are felt as much in the legs, the arms and shoulders, in the chest and stomach as in the head afterwards ... I don't know that this is a good thing, but it is certainly the case for me.

Poor Geoff Phillipps [Geoff P of this Parish] was sitting next to me listening to the Beethoven Emperor Concerto earlier this year, and he said he could feel the tension coming out of me! Like a transmitter!

But for Bach harpsichord music it is more like a pure meditation for me now, possibly because I was no good at the keyboards! But Bach is my favourite!

ATB from George

A couple of negatives that come from playing an instrument are that sometime (often) you listen to that instrument as if it were the most important one in the arrangement, and two, if that instrument is played badly, although there is much to enjoy from the rest of the playing it can spoil the piece.

quote:

Originally posted by JamieL_v2:
A couple of negatives that come from playing an instrument are that sometime (often) you listen to that instrument as if it were the most important one in the arrangement, and two, if that instrument is played badly, although there is much to enjoy from the rest of the playing it can spoil the piece.

If you love the music, after a number of years you don't place so much emphasis on your own instrument when you listen, but you are right about a bad player spoiling a performance for you.

I'm with George on this: it might or it might not. There is no reason why it should in my view. It might also depend on how well you can play - if you are crap then you might not gain any insight (if that is what this is about). Similarly, I do not have to be able to play or to sing to recognize poor playing or singing.

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Originally posted by mikeeschman:

quote:

Originally posted by JamieL_v2:
A couple of negatives that come from playing an instrument are that sometime (often) you listen to that instrument as if it were the most important one in the arrangement, and two, if that instrument is played badly, although there is much to enjoy from the rest of the playing it can spoil the piece.

If you love the music, after a number of years you don't place so much emphasis on your own instrument when you listen, but you are right about a bad player spoiling a performance for you.

When seeing a band live, it is perhaps more the case, but when seeing a rock band in particular, the drums are probably the easiest to follow from a distance anyway.

I also suspect with small groups each individual instrument is easier to follow than with orchestral music, soloists excepted.

I never follow the drums in orchestral music, but that is probably because they are played in and entirely different way so that it does not resemble any playing I would, or could do. Vaughan Williams 3rd Symphony, 2nd movement being an exception, the distant bass drum there is intoxicating, and also sad, as it represents the guns from WW1.

I find playing an instrument makes you accutely aware of articulation, and how different that is on each different instrument.

The way you start notes has a profound effect on the shape of a phrase. Learning to do that together with other musicians so it produces a unified whole is a big part of learning to play.

Articulation in music serves the same purpose as inflection in speech, giving an emotional depth and meaning to what you play.

Interesting thread ... and one that gives people ample opportunity to get on their high horses! (LOL)

I worked as a professional musician, initially as a classical musician and then as a jazz and rock player. I've recorded four solo jazz albums, played on sessions, provincial and West End theatre work etc.

I don't think that you need to be a musician to appreciate music. That is an absurd concept. I do feel that experience of playing changes the way that you interact with music. It does not necessarily make it a more valid experience. The way in which music communicates with the listener is a very personal interaction, focused on different elements of music. My partner is not a musician and I infuriate her when I observe that a single instrument is out of tune or suggest that something is too high in the mix.

When I listen I may, as a result of my musical training and experience, have a greater insight into why a musician chose a particular phrase or chord but I don't think it enables me to make an enhanced value judgement. I know that there is a lot of good music that I don't like and quite a bit of suspect music that I do like. It remains a matter of personal taste.

On the subject of musical instruments, I do believe that the studio is also a musical instrument and that those with skill in this area can greatly enhance our enjoyment of listening to music at home.

It is interesting that most of the good musicians that I know have dreadful audio systems. One of them told me that after the experience of playing live (He works for a very famous rock musician now engaged in solo touring)no domestic audio equipment can come close to replicating that experience so he has something very basic at home that he uses to learn the guitar parts for the next tour. Most professional musicians who I know spend very little time listening to music at home. Whether or not it's a question of time or an issue of the busman's holiday I don't know.

I don't play live gigs any more. I don't have the inclination or the time to be away from for long periods. I listen to a lot more music now that I did when I was out there doing it.

Of course you are right Doctor Jazz, no one said playing an instrument improves the listening experience for everyone, but for me it does change everything about how I listen, and I have come to enjoy that.

When I was actively playing, the stereo did a lot less work than it does now.

The original poster's question was does it change things and I think it does, if that's better or worse is an individual thing.

For me, it improves things. Others may have different results.

Still trying to figure out where the high horse comes in. I though we were discussing listening to music. If we are, then honest statements about what each listener focuses on are appropriate. That's what I want to read for sure.

And I still think any study of music is worthwhile, and enhances the listening experience.

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Originally posted by mikeeschman:
Still trying to figure out where the high horse comes in.

How about ...

" ... you just come off as a pompous ass (in my opinion anyway)"

Or if you prefer ...

"I'll be damned if I will let you dictate to me in any case. I'm certainly not dictating to anyone else."

I will be guarded with my remarks about musicians but would observe that they take themselves way too seriously. I don't have this problem. I play jazz so most musicians regard me as a developing species.

We should all take note of the fact that the difference between a pizza and a musician is that a pizza can feed a family of four.

Doctor Jazz, I'm just trying to report my experiences and read the experiences of others.

There is no high horse involved.

Some people seem generally hostile to the idea of studying music. I don't understand that as studying music is my hobby.

If you can't talk about that in the Music Room,
but of course you can.

That doesn't make me a pompous ass. It makes me another one of many who study music.

Studying music is one valid way of going about listening to music. Not the only way, a way.

quote:

Originally posted by JamieL_v2:
A couple of negatives that come from playing an instrument are that sometime (often) you listen to that instrument as if it were the most important one in the arrangement, and two, if that instrument is played badly, although there is much to enjoy from the rest of the playing it can spoil the piece.

Dear James,

I can only smile at the truth of the fact that if "your" instrument is badly played it can ruin the whole thing, even if it is not especially badly played!

One of the most nerve racking concerts I played was also very early on when a well known Ex-professor of music at the Royal School in Kensington was at a concert where the first half was Beethoven's fifth, and the second was Elgar's Violin Concerto. Don't ask me about the logic of the programme or its order!

I was unaware of his presence in the first half, but he approached me at the interval and introduced himself to me, and asked about my antique and very fine bass! He was professor of bass!

The second half was a white heat moment! But in the end it actually did go well!

As for listening to "your" instrument as if it were the most important, I am not so sure.

I suppose that might depend on why you chose the instrument in the first place. For me it was a question of possibilities, and luck, as the music mattered to me more than the repertoire and significance of my chosen instrument. As it happens, I do listen carefully to bass-lines on occasion as often the forward movement of music stems from the bass, and if I don’t like the music - perhaps one piece in a programme of other things I love - then I definitely concentrate on what the bass or basses are doing! But only after I have given up on really expecting to enjoy the music!

In some ways coming at listening with performance experience is a right pain in the neck on occasion, but other times it has brought a smile to my face as well.

I don't believe it has added one iota to my understanding of music though. That was there before the playing, and only deepens with more exposure to music in all situations, in the concert hall, in the homes of friends, in my own home ...

When a piece of music eludes me, sometimes I really do some study, with the score, reading about it, finding out the motivations for its original composition. But this is rare. Mostly I take music as it comes! I think playing may deepen the ability to listen to complex balances and hear through the tangle! This does come from playing in ensemble, but it should make no difference if the music is well balanced [between the musical lines] in performance.

ATB from George

i am a grade 5 trumpert player -- i intended to pursue further qualitifications, but, "its the thought that counts" :-)

my daughter plays double bass and piano. in may case, playing a musical intruments has made me much more critically aware of decifiencies in reproduced music -- this ciuld be considered a negative, but i am pleased that at least i have a benchmark.

enjoy
ke

I've only had three lessons so I am not a musician. I'm a newbie. Im like a newly reformed smoker. You feel like telling others about your experience (till they start avoiding you, then you "pull your head in")

No high horse or equestrian event intended.

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Originally posted by Briz Vegas:
I've only had three lessons so I am not a musician. I'm a newbie. Im like a newly reformed smoker. You feel like telling others about your experience (till they start avoiding you, then you "pull your head in")

No high horse or equestrian event intended.

It would be a joy to read of your experiences. Please post more details here.

Inspired by this thread I went out and bought myself a triangle. Since starting to play this instrument I have developed an incredible liking of the band The Ting Tings and I really “get” their music.

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Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
Still trying to figure out where the high horse comes in.

We should all take note of the fact that the difference between a pizza and a musician is that a pizza can feed a family of four.

The pizza comment is a perfect example of sitting on a high horse, it is so mean spirited. I know dozens if not hundreds of professional musicians who have bought houses and raised families very successfully.

So much for watching what you say about musicians.

Some of these maybe?

The pizza comment is a very old joke, because for all the musicians you know with houses and families there are/were/will be many more thousands trying to achieve just getting another meal.
Your reaction to the previous posters comment might be construed as GOAHH.

What is GOAHH?

All in fun :-)

Getting On A High Horse!

quote:

What is GOAHH?

Something that is a tad self defeating if a Shetland Pony is used.

It's good to know musicians are held in such high regard by forum members :-)

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I don't think that you need to be a musician to appreciate music. That is an absurd concept. I do feel that experience of playing changes the way that you interact with music. It does not necessarily make it a more valid experience. The way in which music communicates with the listener is a very personal interaction, focused on different elements of music. My partner is not a musician and I infuriate her when I observe that a single instrument is out of tune or suggest that something is too high in the mix.

I played to a good standard when young (grade 8, junior proms) and I would agree with your comment inasmuch as I have noticed over the years that I tend to pick out nuances and components within a piece of music in a way that others in general appear not to. I sometimes wonder whether I have a soft spot for music with vocal harmony (like the Beach Boys/Byrds type stuff) for this reason. I also believe however it is the initial surface 'smack' of a piece of music that is the difference between great and mediocre stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
I also believe however it is the initial surface 'smack' of a piece of music that is the difference between great and mediocre stuff.

Truer words were never spoken :-)

That's exactly how I pick what gets more attention, but I expect that's what most of us do.