Car insurance woes...

I don't work in insurance any more, but I doubt the rating mechanisms have changed much since I did.

Basically, your car insurance is calculated from a (not electronic) table based your postcode and the insurance group of the car. That figure is then either discounted or loaded depending on a host of factors; age, alarms, claims history, job etc etc.

The whole basis of insurance is that you're comparing similar risks (homogenous exposure), and in your instance that works against you because professional musicians are generally a bad risk i.e. tend to have more claims. I don't know for certain, but I'd imagine that most systems would not distinguish between you as a violinist, Mark Bolan or the drummer from Def Leppard. You'd all be classed as musicians and thus your premium (if they'd write it at all) would be loaded accordingly. Musicians rank alongside professional sportsman and fighter pilots as particularly bad risks.

Short of finding another profession, or lying to the insurance company (not something I'd recommend), I'd suggest trying to find a company that either diferentiates between types of professional musician, or that focus's on them, like these guys...

Victor Knight

Hope some of that helps...

Insurance is all about sterotypes and all the more so for larger direct operations such as Sainsbury, Tesco and Direct Line who want to cherry-pick the best (perceived, stereotyped) risks.

A case such as yours is where a broker really (should) come into their own. Alternatively, who do your fellow musicians go to?

Steve.

Dear Herbie,

I have contacted Victor Night just now, lets see what they can do.

I think that after a certain amount of accident-free years the insurance company should consider you a good risk and not presume that I am irresponsible like many of my colleagues are (statistically).

I do differenciate with my insurers the I am a classical musician.

I'll keep you posted re the outcome!
Thanks
Jack

Jack,

Try yourinsurancegroup

I work in their IT department, so feel free to mention me as a referral if you like.

Good luck!

Mark Hartt-Palmer

Naive question and it might just be a case of "computer says no" as it's all based off stats and algorithms, but why would a musician be an inherently higher risk than, say, me as an "IT Professional"?

Because the stats say so... simple as that really.

If you look back of x million policies, you'll find that musicians are statistically more like to have claims. I'm sure you can come up with many reasons why this may or may not be true, but ultimately high volume, retail insurance comes down to a computer rating engine...

.

quote:

Insurance is all about sterotypes

No. Insurance costs are about previous claims.

[quote] but why would a musician be an inherently higher risk than, say, me as an "IT Professional"? [quote]

Various reasons, they have more claims on average and costs of claims tend to be high even with minor accidents through loss of earnings etc.

I'm in IT, I bugger my hand up - I type more slowly. If I play an instrument - ?

Lifestyle also plays a part. Don't forget the base prices or rates are not tailored to individuals. Insurance is the pooling of funds to protect individuals against events that would otherwise be hard to sustain. By definition this means many people with clean accident records will support others - but tomorrow it could be you.

You may also be interested to know that motor insurance makes money about one year in four! They won't be making much this year for example. The costs of repairs and more importantly, care of people are enormous. The compensation culture has worsened it, of course.

The cycle goes thus - cheap companies enter market, premiums drop to unsustainable levels, market contracts through bad results, price goes back up etc. etc.

Regards,

Steve.

Mark HP - Thanks for the pointer - just got a good quote from your reccomended company

Hi Jack

I am an underwriter of non life insurance business (not Motor per se) but I can give you some insight.

The major issue facing "musicians" in obtaining car insurance is that you tend to do most of your driving in the evening to attend/play in functions that involve hospitality (and hence alcohol) and then travel home afterwards. Claims arising from accidents-thefts-damage show up in the claims stats and when referenced back to the occupation results in higher premiums for that category that describe themselves as "musicians".

The secondary affect of being in a slightly riskier class is that many companies won’t underwrite the cover, hence reducing the competition for your business. Lack of competition can have a huge affect on premium levels and is probably the single biggest driver of the rate you pay.

Also, musicians would be regarded as persons using the vehicle to "derive a living" hence commercial usage. Hence companies will seek to charge "commercial" rates. (You might be receiving a traveling allowance and you decide to use your car as opposed to the train). You might also be claiming a tax deduction on you motoring expenses (incl. insurance)

Musicians also tend to have expensive instruments/gear/amps etc that they often store in their vehicle, making it a greater risk (for theft, even if the limit on goods carried is low)

It is likely that those musicians of a classical variety would have a different claims experience to the thrash metal rock bands but it would appear that many companies simply do not record that level of detail and hence cannot filter down to that level.

As has been mentioned earlier, in the main it is the claim experience that gets you. Note that people often think that an expensive Mercedes would cost more to insure that a regular Ford but often this is not the case! Why? Because Mercedes often have less accidents that Fords due mainly to the driving attitude of Mercedes drivers!! Strange but true!

Regards P

Thanks Pat for your explanation.

I have found my renewal of £850 with a company called First Alternative to be the cheapest. I tried Victor Night and they found me a policy that was £30 less, but by this time I had already renewed my policy.

When I moved to my address in North London from my previous address ( I moved 5 mins down the road to a slightly more dodgy area ), my insurance went up from £1000 to £1500!

I still think it's pretty unfair considering my claim history.

Thanks,
Jack

quote:

Originally posted by Derek Wright:
Mark HP - Thanks for the pointer - just got a good quote from your reccomended company

No problem - I'm glad we were able to help!

I really do think they make it up as they go along.

This last few days I've had quotes ranging from £450 to over £2000 having provided exactly the same details each time.

Does anyone "in the know" know if I have to declare something that I reported to my insurance that happened last year, where a lorry nudged my car, but no claim was ever made I notified the insurance because I also notified the Police that it happened.

The online quotation engines don't allow much scope other than Yes/No when they ask if you had any "claims" or "accidents" in the last X years.

Paul

You are not required to notify this.

Regards P

quote:

Originally posted by PatG:
Paul

You are not required to notify this.

Regards P

Pat,

Thanks for that - that's quite interesting. So far on the new wheels Bell Direct are by far the cheapest quote.

On their online configurator they ask the question any "accidents or claims" under which I can put in that I had a "no claim" incident with a cost of "£0".

Doing so bumps up the price by around £140.

I phoned them to ask and the person I spoke to went to check with a supervisor and told me that yes, I did have to list it.

Can you clarify why I don't have to list it please?

Obviously I'm wondering if I'm dealing with a "call centre" mentality where they fill in the boxes vs. an insurance expert.

I have no problem with disclosing to them exactly what happened, but I don't want to find I'm being punished because they (or me) don't understand insurance semantics of what constitutes an accident.

TIA,
Paul