Who is (or was) the greatest sportsman of all time?

Wayne Gretzky.

Modest, dedicated and inspirational.

Jim

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Who is (or was) the greatest sportsman of all time?

Or sportswoman I presume?

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Originally posted by Stephen B:

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Who is (or was) the greatest sportsman of all time?

Or sportswoman I presume?

Oh ok

Lee Jun-Fan.

I went to suggest Bobby Jones....

...but actually the question is too vague to answer with any conviction.

How about 'Which sportsman or woman was furthest ahead of his/her peers?'

Ian

Pele (and I don't even like football) - brought a nation together and still a world icon - OK I will give you the viagra add! -

All of those so far are lightweights compared to C B Fry

So much talent in one man. Read and weep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._B._Fry

Kevin Beattie, a football collossus, possessing every attribute to become one of England and the World's all time greats. Kevin would ultimately not deliver on this promise owing to terrible injury problems. Sir Bobby Robson, another of footballs' greats, could scarcely believe the gem he had been delivered by his northern scout in Kevin. Robson referred to Kevin as "Diamond" in recognition of his gifts although I prefer the nickname the player later earned in football generally, "Tank".

A boy in a mans body, Kevin was quick, strong, tackled like an ox, was good in the air, comfortable with the ball at his feet and was dangerous going forward. He had everything - he was Cruyff, Platini and Baresi rolled into one and then some. He could easily have made it as a midfielder or centre-forward, but his talents were best suited to defence, sometimes at left back but mainly at centre half. Sir Bobby had seen his like before. Duncan Edwards was not a name the former England international would throw around lightly, having grown up as a contemporary and international teammate of the undoubted star of Manchester United's Busby Babes, but he could not help but make the comparison, so much of Edwards did he see in Kevin.

Kevin debuted on the opening day of the 1972-73 season at Old Trafford. He was outstanding and nerveless as Ipswich returned with a deserved victory. Kevin had announced his arrival and would remain in the Ipswich side until injuries started affecting his progress. Sir Bobby was building the greatest team I've ever seen and the emergence of a ready made star like Kevin was a godsend to a manager working on a budget far more restricted than those of his competitors.

In Beattie's first season at Portman Road, Ipswich won the Texaco Cup, nothing too sensational although it came courtesy of a victory over the budgies and finished fourth in the league qualifying for Europe. This success allowed Robson to hold on to his better players and with Beattie and several other talents coming through the ranks the unfashionable club from the country was able to cement its' place among the nations' most entertaining team.

The 1973-74 season was good for Ipswich and Kevin. There was another fourth place in the league while Real Madrid, Lazio (5-0) and Twente Enschade of Holland were defeated in the UEFA Cup. There was another win at Old Trafford, this time in the FA Cup , with Kevin scoring with a typical header. Kevin's fine season was capped when he was voted the Young Player of the Year for 1974 by his fellow professionals.

The following season was also progressing nicely when Kevin was selected by the recently appointed England manager, Don Revie, for an Under 23 training camp in Manchester. Kevin never arrived - two days later he was tracked down to his family home in Carlisle, complaining of stress and exhaustion. Whatever his mental and physical state there was no sign of his performances being affected. At twenty one, Kevin was the lynchpin of this fine Ipswich side and the most consistently effective players. This season there was a third place finish. In the FA Cup, Ipswich disposed of Wolves , Aston Villa, Liverpool and, after four gruelling games, Leeds United to reach the last four and the famous trophy appeared theirs for the taking. After outplaying West Ham United over two games, however, we somehow managed to lose their replay, 2-1 on a Stamford Bridge quagmire. Of course we were not helped by the self important refereeing eccentric Clive Thomas who saw fit to disallow two "goals" by Bryan Hamilton during the tie. Thomas certainly never thought Hamilton deserved to be a hero. IMHO: Thomas was the worst referee in the history of football.

Consolation came to Kevin in his first England Cap which he won in April 1975 when selected for the European Championship qualifier against Cyprus at Wembley. A more noteworthy appearance, and performance, came in the same years' Home International clash with Scotland at Wembley. A dynamic new England side, epitomised by Kevin, seemed to be emerging and the 5-1 thrashing they inficted on the Scots here confirmed the sides' potential. Kevin's raw power was seldom better demonstrated than when he roared forward to bury a far post header for England's second goal.

Tragically, Kevin would be denied the opportunity of prolonging his international career because of injury. He found trouble where there was none at an inopportune time as Ipswich were chasing the league title of 1977. With the club well placed at Easter, Beattie was badly burned when a bonfire at his home got out of control and he attempted to keep it in check. Of the six games he missed we lost four, still finishing only one point behind Liverpool. More conventional injuries, and far more damaging to his career, plagued Beattie, whose knees were never right from this time on.

We struggled in the league the following season without our star player for the first time since his emergence, although he was fit to take part in a 3-0 victory over Barcelona in the UEFA Cup.

Kevin was again fit when we won through to the FA Cup semi finals, however, and played a full part as we turned on the style to dismiss West Brom 3-1 in the semis and see off Arsenal in the final with far more authority than the 1-0 score line would suggest.

In 1981, during a brief spell when his knee allowed him to play, Beattie lined up for another FA Cup semi final against Manchester City only to suffer a broken arm during the game; this injury would cost him a place in the UEFA Cup final which we won the following month.

In October 1981, after five operations on his knee, Kevin had to accept defeat and announce his retirement. He had a testimonial match by Ipswich, 14,525 turning up to watch the match against Moscow Dynamo.

One of Kevin's claims to fame is his part in Escape to Victory, widely acknowledged as the greatest war epic ever made. Several Ipswich players starred including Russell Osman, John Wark and Kevin O'Callaghan starred as allied forces footballers with a supporting cast that included Pele, Deyna and Ardilles (a great honour for those three lads). Kevin was the true star of the film and somebody called Michael Caine doubled for him in the acting scenes. Kevin described his co-star, Sylvester Stallone as an arrogant sod and not patch on Paul Cooper, his goalkeeping coach for the movie. Kevin said: Paul was supposed to teach him how to dive properly but Stallone thought he could do it all himself; he's not big enough to be a keeper anyway..

Sir Bobby Robson scoffed at Beattie's paltry tally of nine England caps and said it should have been ninety nine, before deciding that figure would also have been insufficient for a talent that had no bounds.

For sheer dominance over his rivals for an extended period of time, Michael Johnson.

Mark

well if fotf is going for beattie then i must put bobby moore up there. a perfect gent and a pretty good footballer too !
scotty

Acad,

I'm just too young to really remember him in action, but for me, for both his sporting brilliance, and for his ability to transcend his sport and become the most recognised and most talked about man in the world, it has to be Ali.

Read Norman Mailer's 'The Fight' - it might just change your mind.

(Jockie Wilson wasnae bad either.)

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Acad, I'm just too young to really remember him in action, but for me, for both his sporting brilliance, and for his ability to transcend his sport and become the most recognised and most talked about man in the world, it has to be Ali.

Agreed, although my judgment is influenced by 1) the movie When We Were Kings and 2) the fact that it's not my habit to choose/not choose somebody just because Acad doesn't want me to do so.

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For sheer dominance over his rivals for an extended period of time, Michael Johnson.

The only problem is that his 10'32" performance on 200m was so unbelievable that few people think it came about without the help of steroids and other stuff.

Eddy Merckx was also an alien, he wasn't much cleaner than Johnson but IMO he was the best example of the sportsman who had a compulsory need to win every single race. Cyclists were very badly paid back then, the Belgian cannibal still made money simply because he won hundreds of races. The archetype of a champion.

One of my favourite sportsmen, Ingemar Stenmark who often built a gap of 4-5 seconds between him and the rest. And with style, s'il vous plaît !

And of course Franz Klammer (memories come up!) who was the best downhill skier of all time for me. His technique was downright awful to watch but he just went straight down the slope, period. A madman but we love them.

Sorry for you Sheene-loving Brits but once there was a guy called Giacomo Agoostini ...

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Originally posted by scottyhammer:
well if fotf is going for beattie then i must put bobby moore up there. a perfect gent and a pretty good footballer too !
scotty

Yes of course and let us not forget that Bobby too played a crucial role in that most important of all matches when the Allies came back from 4-1 down to draw 4-4 with the Germans - I think Bobby scored IIRC (passed Laurie Sivell who played in German goal).

England has had some great left halves Duncan Edwards, Bobby Moore, Kevin Beattie and, who is that guy who plays on the left these days?

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Originally posted by ROTF:
[QUOTE]Yes of course and let us not forget that Bobby too played a crucial role in that most important of all matches when the Allies came back from 4-1 down to draw 4-4 with the Germans

True, but Stallone's blinding penalty save was the key moment for me!

y.a. tittle - perfected the "alley-oop" forward pass (later refined by fran tarkenton) AND wore hi-top shoes (not to mention that he played for the LOS ANGELES rams for a time).

Eddy Merckx.



Tour de France, 5 overall, 34 stage wins
Giro d'Italia, 5 overall, 24 stage wins
Vuelta a España, 1 overall, 6 stage wins
World Cycling Champion, 3 times
Super Prestige Pernod International, 7 wins
Giro di Lombardia, 2 wins
Liège-Bastogne-Liège, 5 wins
Milan-Sanremo, 7 wins
Paris-Roubaix, 3 wins
Ronde van Vlaanderen, 2 wins
Victories as a professional cyclist : 525

All one sport nobodies outside their chosen speciality. C B fry was a sporting polymath who was even offered the Albanian throne.

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Originally posted by Stephen Tate:
Lee Jun-Fan.

I'll add Morehei Ueshiba (1883-1969) founder of Aikido and
Jigoro Kano (1860-1938) who founded Kodokan Judo. Both collected elements of traditional martial arts in Japan and made them into disciplines suitable for wider practise in the modern world --- one as a form of non-competitive self-development and the other as an Olympic sport.

So...not Tim Henman then.

Steve Redgrave (Rowing).

World leader in one of the hardest physical strength and endurance sports, rowing, over a period of 20 years (yes, 20 years!). And he suffers from diabetes and colitis.

Olympic Gold Medals:
1984 (coxed 4), 1988 (coxless pair w. Holmes), 1992 and 1996 (coxless pair w. Pinsent), 2000 (coxless 4)

Olympic Broze Medal:
1988 (coxed pair w. Holmes)

World Rowing Championships: 10 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze

Rowing World Cup (league championship): 3 gold

Commonwealth Games: 3x gold 1986

Henley Royal Regatta : 20 winners' medals

World Indoor Rowing Champion: 1990

Bobsleigh: GB Squad 1985-89 (2-man : 1987 2nd, and 4-man : 1989 1st, Bobsleigh Championships, Winterberg, Germany).

I am delighted to have been able to watch Redgrave row many times across his career.

There have been other oarsmen who have been technically better, but they all fell by the wayside (eg Andy Holmes). Redgrave persevered with it, even after developing a serious condition.

James

Who is (or was) the greatest sportsman of all time? Not just the greatest athlete but a gentlemen too.

Eddy Merckx? He tested positive for illegal substances twice in his career.

Jim

Whereas C B Fry held the world long jump record and played football and cricket for England all at the same time!

Aaron Ralston - he was out hiking and got his hand stuck. So of course he cut the hand off.

Or there's Buck Shelford the former All Black. He got his scrotum torn open in a game (against France I think) and one testicle was hanging out. He got the team medical guy to stitch it back up and then returned to the field.

Daley Thompson:

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Francis Morgan Thompson, CBE (born July 30, 1958 in Worcester Park), known commonly as Daley Thompson, is a former English decathlete and arguably the greatest the world had ever seen. He is of Nigerian and Scottish heritage.

Thompson won consecutive gold medals at the 1980 and 1984 Olympic Games, and broke the world record for the event four times. His best score in the event was set in the 1984 Olympic competition at 8847 points, a world record that stood for nine years and an Olympic record that stood for twenty years until the Czech athlete Roman Šebrle scored 8893 points in the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens. It is still the UK record He competed for an unprecedented third Olympic decathlon gold at the 1988 Seoul games, but was severely hampered by injury and could only finish fourth. Thompson was the first athlete to simultaneously hold Olympic, Commonwealth, European and World titles in a single event.

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He got his scrotum torn open in a game (against France I think) and one testicle was hanging out.

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