Syd is dead

The Madcap Laughs no more RIP

A very sad day indeed but there are many contenders for the 'most important' character in the music of the sixties. I think Lennon, Wilson, Townsend, Dylan, Hendrix etc may be worth a mention!

A sad loss, as is any death; but this lamentation as to his musical influence is a bit misplaced, surely?

3 good songs with PF (and PF did most of their best work after he had gone); and little of merit in his own thereafter.

A cult figure for sure but his talent died 30 years before he did.

Get The Independent today for a decent double page article as well as an obituary. Worth reading about the time he showed up at Abbey Rd in 75 totally unannounced at the time the band were recording Shine on you crazy diamond. Apparently they couldn't believe the timing or the fact that that the guy stood in front of them was actually him.

Perhaps a part of the way the remaining members respected and name checked him long after he 'went' was, in part a recognition of his creative energy, and also perhaps because they felt a sense of collective guilt that he was the single band casualty along the way and that they were all up for the 'party' up to the point that it all imploded for syd. A metaphor for the end of the sixties?

I've had 'Shine on You Crazy Diamond' going on in my head for the past week or so....a bit spooky that...

RIP, Syd.

Nigel is absolutely right. Roger ("Syd") Barrett checked out of the music scene 30 years ago. His 'genius' was long gone.

Graham

Johnny Walker gave his respects this morning opening his (standing in for Wogan) show playing two PF tracks back to back including Shine On You Crazy Diamond (missed the first one but suspect it was Arnold Layne).

JW has a knack at handling such matters - best dj I've heard.

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Simon Matthews:
A very sad day indeed but there are many contenders for the 'most important' character in the music of the sixties. I think Lennon, Wilson, Townsend, Dylan, Hendrix etc may be worth a mention!

All great artists in their own respect and certainly worth a mention, but for me - none of them came close to Syd in terms of creativity with the possible exception of Lennon (others not on your list are Robin Williamson/Mike Heron and Ray Davies). Of course it is all opinion, but Syd wrote a collection of excellent songs from Lucy Leave to Two Of A Kind. Just listen to Dominos - Syd did the vocal with tape being played backwards, when his vocal was imposed on the forward tape it fitted perfectly - I've no idea what this means, but Dominos is a great song.

I found the news very very sad and sat listening to his records and watched the The Pink Floyd and Syd Barrett Story (2004) DVD. Syd was extraordinary. I wish they'd finally release official versions of the concerts and a complete singles collecton with remastered versions of Lucy Leave, Scream Thy Last Scream and Vegetable Man.

quote:

Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
If you have nothing constructive or respectful to say, dont say it.

Why? What is so special about dead musicians that they should be free from criticism or that those who eulogise about them should not be invited to take a reality check?

It's about respect.
Syd Barrett may not have a huge musical output, but he more or less invented the British Psychedelic movement which has influenced subsequent music right up to this minute, with bands like The Orb for instance. We probably wouldn't have ambient chill out music if Interstella Overdrive never happened, and certainly no Hawkwind or Ozric Tentacles along the way. Remember that popular music in the mid 60's was essentially 3 minute verse-chorus-verse-chorus classic pop (Beatles, Stones, Kinks etc) before Pink Floyd destroyed the rule book. Everything before was progression from Elvis. Pink Floyd had no such identifyable foundation.

Well said, Rasher.

The Orb, Hawkwind, the Ozrics...clearly he has a lot to answer for.

Unfortunately, he no longer answers to anybody - he lived out his life peacefully hurting nobody and leaving a legacy that gave great pleasure to many, especially me.

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
The Orb, Hawkwind, the Ozrics...clearly he has a lot to answer for.

That wasn't my point

I think it ok to show respect whilst at the same time attempting to be honest in our evaluation of the creative output of an individual.

We should be no less honest to ourselves or to others even in death. For what its worth I only have a vague understanding of Syd's cultural significance as I have only really got into post Syd floyd (probably a severe ommission on my part)

A couple of the posts angry at Nigel remind me a tiny bit of the stuff said after Di died (not that I am comparing the two people). At the time of her death anybody who mentioned that they thought she was a media manipulator who spent tax payers money on ski hols was liable to be hung by the neck. People who feel that Syds iconic position can be questioned should not be run out of town, especially on a public forum.

Just my 2p worth.

I don't think anyone is angry at Nigel, and I'm just backing up my point that Syd was an originator of a new musical genre. My point wasn't that he was responsible for The Orb, Hawkwind and Ozric Tentacles, and Nigel knows it. I think it's fine for Nigel to question his credentials and someone was going to do it sooner or later, but that doesn't mean we can't defend our viewpoint too, especially when hit by a hint of sarcasm. It's only a forum discussion. Everyone here knows TMP's passion for Floyd and therefore his reaction is entirely understandable. No-one should take offence at that under the circumstances.
Just wait until Elton John pops his cloggs and then we'll change sides.

David Bowie, who must be regarded as one of the major figures in pop of the 20th century, has cited Syd as a major influence. John Harris's piece in yesterday's Guardian mentions Flaming Lips, Alan McGee and R.E.M. as all acknowledging his influence.

They will though, won't they. They'll all be lining up to claim a mention, from Tom Jones to Will Young. I'm surprised that Elton John hasn't tried to get mileage out of it yet. I can see the influence on Bowie though. Probably the only exception will be Donovan who will claim that he influenced Syd.

Bowie covered 'See Emily Play' way back. I'm sure he would rather forget (as would I) the Laughing Gnome, though. I think Elton may find it more difficult to uncover a psychedelic history.

quote:

No-one should take offence at that under the circumstances. Just wait until Elton John pops his cloggs and then we'll change sides.

...and as for Cliff Richard...!

Johnny Rotten, he of the I hate Pink Floyd t=shirt was later found to own copies of Madcap Laughs and Barrett and confess ed to liking Syd.

BTW, talking of Mr Bowie, I have the album 'World of David Bowie' which contains Laughing Gnome, London Boys, Little Bombadeer and I think its great. I prefer it to his later stuff. It was pop music with an English accent and influenced by Anthony Newley and of course Syd.

I bought Syd's (Floyd's) singles when I was at school. I've collected every recording of Barrett's Floyd and Solo career that I could (without paying silly money). There is only one songwriter I find more significant than Syd and he is of much later era and not as influential (anyone who has read some of my posts will know who I'm refering to). There are those I feel on a par with Syd (they've been mentioned earlier in this thread), but as pointed out Syd did what none of these guys did - he not only wrote songs as wonderful as Candy and the Current Bun and Jugband Blues, but he also created Interstellar Overdrive.

It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here
And I'm most obliged to you for making it clear
That I'm not here

The question of influence interests me - especially when I see a band like R.E.M namecheck someone like Syd Barrett.

R.E.M are one of my all-time favourite bands but psychedelia leaves me cold and the nuance of British psycheldelia passes me by completely. I don't mean to be offensive, but to help you understand where I am coming from, I regard it as drugged up hippie nonsense.

How then can that be if Syd is an important influence on a band I love? How is it that his influence has melded with other influences and morphed into something that that compels me to listen, whereas the one PF album I owned (you know the one) for years has never encouraged me to explore their music or their musical roots further?

Perhaps the cynics have it right and R.E.M are lying or perhaps it is why humans will still be arguing about music in 1,000 years time (if we still exist).

Olly

R.E.M are definitely influenced by Barrett, you can hear it comning through when they are their best. Unless the one PF album you owned was Piper At The Gates of Dawn then it is not Barrett. He was on Saucerful of Secrets too, but he wasn;t very well when it was made and Gilmour took over.

However I'd suggest R.E.M were more influenced by the Barrett album than by Piper.

quote:

I don't mean to be offensive, but to help you understand where I am coming from, I regard it as drugged up hippie nonsense.

You sound like a man who has never heard Tintern Abbey or Wimple Winch, perhaps you should give them a chance or listen to ISB's 5000 Spirits or PT's SF Sorrow - you'll see where R.E.M got their sound from.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Olly:
I regard it as drugged up hippie nonsense.

How then can that be if Syd is an important influence on a band I love? How is it that his influence has melded with other influences and morphed into something that that compels me to listen.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Of course you have a point. I love Syd but stuff like 'Scarecrow' is just a bit too twee.
Being influenced by someone doesn't necessarily mean you will end up sounding like your influences. Perhaps R.E.M. (Stipe and Buck in particular) took some of the wild, anarchic, originality and creativity of Syd and wrote songs about a similar detatched view of the world and its absurdities.

ROTF

You are right in your estimation of me, I will follow up your suggestions and see where they take me. Thanks for taking the trouble to try and educate me with your reply.

Olly