Military and Clock

Posted by: u5227470736789439 on 16 September 2006

Dear Friends,

Those who have followed my posts in this part will by now know that I am fonder of Haydn's Symphonies than those of his friend Mozart. The opposite situation exists, of course in the matter of concertos!

But where do do you find performances of Haydn that are as fine as those regularly devoted to Mozart? Well the answer to that is that great Haydn playing is much rarer than great Mozart playing, but it certainly exists.

Today I found two of Haydn's Symphonies, the Clock (101) and the Military (100) on BBC Legends where Eugen Jochum leads the LPO in a live RFH concert which is just splendid. One would not begin to guess that at the time Jochum was a very old man, or given the absense of slips that this is a live concert. But the readings are earthy, robust, and most of all deeply satisfying at bringing out Haydn game sense of wit - both the humourous and wise implications. Essentially they underline the sunny disposition of the music. The playing finds quite quick tempi that never sound rushed or forced but taking the excitement of the music as its cue.

It is not to be forgotten that Haydn invented the Scherzo, not Beethoevn, who simply invented the name. For Haydn these late Minuets and Trios were to be taken rather faster than a true minuet, which is a stately dance [usually about 100 crochets per minute], and symphonically the greatest example of the old style may, perhaps, be found in the Jupiter Symphony of Mozart, but Haydn, in the mid 1790s was alread more modern than time allowed Mozart to be even in his last Symphonic compositions.

The point is not lost on Jochum who certain makes these dance along at a most satisfying one in a bar! Certainly he may shake some dust out of the old music along the way, but some may share my view that this is a wonderful characterisation what what is implied in the Music. It is faster than Davis (Philips) and Beecham begins to sound rather stately in the style after this! Mind Beecham has unique insights, not so easily dismissed.

I really want to highlight this issue, as it seems much to good to miss, and many who are not conversant with Haydn's music, and may consider the Brucknerian Jochum a rather unlikely exponent, will likely as not pass over it. Please do not, but obtain it. I believe DG have the full set of London Symphonies out under Jochum at present. The concerts and recording were concurrent.

All the best from Fredrik

PS: Wrong place. Please reply in the Music room!
Posted on: 19 September 2006 by Chris Shorter
The Drum Roll in the Jochum set is one of my all-time favourite recordings of any music.

Haydn has been a great revelation for me this year. I purchased a full set of the Dorati version on excellent vinyl for about £40 in January. I slowly worked my way through the full lot and have emerged amazed.

How did he write all those minuets??? It's not just the 100+ in the symphonies but the ones in the piano sonatas, string quartets etc. He is said to have written over 2000 minuet movements. How did the invention stay so fresh?

I think my favorite Haydn recording of all is the Dorati Creation; try it if you don't know it.
Posted on: 19 September 2006 by Rockhopper
I enjoyed the thoughts about Haydns music but which symphony does the Drum roll appear in please? It was mentioned in the post by Chris Shorter.
Thank you
Russell
Posted on: 19 September 2006 by u5227470736789439
The Symphony called the 'Drum Roll' is Number 103 in E flat.

They are all great - or I have not come across one I did not enjoy, so far, but the Drum Roll often feels like my favourite. It has the most wonderful slow movement.

ATB from Fredrik
Posted on: 19 September 2006 by Rockhopper
Thank you for the info. Into vinyl search mode


Russell
Posted on: 19 September 2006 by Todd A
I've got Jochum's DG set, which also has three other symphonies, and they are fine indeed. I'm not sure I need more Jochum in this repertoire, though if I find the BBC set at the right price, who knows?

Another fine interpreter of the London Symphonies is Leonard Bernstein on Sony. The complete cycle is refreshing and energetic and not at all too heavy, as I feared before hearing it.

Beecham is likewise good in all 12, and Fricsay in the couple I've heard (95 & 98), and then one must consider Szell, too. Oh, yes, and Harnoncourt's set of the London Symphonies is on my wish list.


--
Posted on: 19 September 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Todd [the Chief!],

Long time since I had the real pleasure of a reply from you on a thread I started. I hope you are well.

I have a problem deciding which of the London symphonies I like best, and conclude that it is the one I am listening to at the exact time!

Really I have no special favourite after the begining of the Paris set (82, I think), and the ones between the Paris and London Symphonies are lovely as well, especially the Oxford, and also 88 in G.

I wish more people knew these works, for they are in no way lesser than those of Mozart's Symphonic works. Great is Great, and comparison is pointless, and generally I find more comfort in them than the Symphonic works of Beethoven, though I have never been a day or two way from a Beethoven symphony for over thirty years.

In fact I am listening, for the second time this evening, to the Eroica from Klemperer in the old mono effort. I am gradually thinking that it is so straight and without anything interventionist, that it becomes my favourite performance! A remarkable achievement: A totally classical perfomance of a completely revolutionary and largely romantic symphony! In this the music speaks, perfectly, for itself...

Kindest regards from Fredrik
Posted on: 20 September 2006 by Tam
I think I've said elsewhere that I'm a fan of Bernstein in Haydn and that the cycle Todd mentioned was my first. Certainly the readings don't have the heaviness or, what for want of a better phrase, might be termed 'conductor before composer' that often ruins his interpretations for some. I think he captures the joy of the music wonderfully - his DG recording of the Creation is also quite something.


regards, Tam
Posted on: 20 September 2006 by Todd A
quote:
Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
I wish more people knew these works, for they are in no way lesser than those of Mozart's Symphonic works. Great is Great, and comparison is pointless




Well written indeed. Haydn is, for me, one of the central pillars of the symphonic repertoire. His works easily withstand comparison to anyone's. As for my favorite of the London bunch, I have to say it's 104. Something about that last movement.

Glad to see mention of Bernstein's DG Creation. I think I do detect some "heaviness" there, but only in that it starts sounding more like Beethoven than Haydn at times. (Hard to really complain about that.)

I also saw mention of the greatest of symphonies, the Eroica. I simply don't have time for that right now.

(BTW, I am well, I'm just very busy. My workload has increased substantially since the spring, so free time is harder to come by, so I have to choose between listening to music or writing about it. An easy choice for me. Perhaps I'll get some time soon to write some more - I've still been doing lots of LvB listening for instance . . .)


--
Posted on: 21 September 2006 by Tam
I agree there is a little heavines in that Creation, very fine none the less.

As you say, the choice between listening and writing is an easy, and understandable one, but your contributions have been missed.


It probably belongs on another thread, but while I find much that is remarkable in the Erioca, there are others (a number in the Beethoven cannon) that I enjoy much more.


regards, Tam
Posted on: 23 September 2006 by Chris Shorter
quote:
Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:

Really I have no special favourite after the begining of the Paris set (82, I think), and the ones between the Paris and London Symphonies are lovely as well, especially the Oxford, and also 88 in G.



Fredrik

Do you know the set of three symphonies 76-78, just before the Paris set, which were composed for an abortive trip to London? All without names. The standard Haydn orchestra of 2 horns, 2 oboes, bassoon and strings is only slighly augmented by an additional bassoon and flute. 76 and 77 are certainly high in my list of favourites (there was a very fine version of these by the AAM and Christopher Hogwood and the front of the BBC mag a few months ago)

Chris
Posted on: 23 September 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Chris,

The answer is not really! I know the quartets well almost right through, though it is a huge ouevre, and the keyboard sonatas, almost as well, but I have yet to get really into the trios, or the symphonies before the Paris set! I wish life had more hours in the day, and I do find learning to know music new to me is slowetr than it used to be!

So I shall look out for these now.

I do have that cover mount CD with the symphonies you mention, and they are absolutely splendid. I have just moved house so finding them for this evening is the next plan!

Fredrik
Posted on: 23 September 2006 by u5227470736789439
..., which I have just found, as a good friend who knows I adore Haydn's saved it for me! 77 in B Falat, and 76 in E Flat in that order.

I think Hogwood recorded the whole 104 symphonies in the '70s, and these recordings are licenced from Decca, but recorded in 1996. Very fine indeed.

Fredrik
Posted on: 24 September 2006 by Chris Shorter
Fredrik

I'm pleased you enjoyed them. If these two symphonies are representative of the rest of the Hogwood set, then it will be worth hearing. I think the Hogwood was recorded later than the 1970's; the 2 records I've managed to find are both dated 1983 and were (I think) the only ones issued on vinyl. They are late symphonies and it could easily have taken 10 years to complete the rest.

Yes, the string quartets! Something I've condidered as my next listening project. I think I only know The Lark and The Joke quartets.

Something I have revisited after the Haydn symphonies is the early Mozart symphonies. Many of these, if given a committed performance, are really good I think. I like Hogwood for this repetoire. In his hands, even number one is a great little piece. I also managed to get his complete recordings on vinyl for little more than I paid for the Dorati Haydn. Nearly all analogue too, apart from a few late ones.

You mention that finding enough time to listen to all this stuff is a problem and I agree. What is truely miraculous is how Haydn (Mozart too) found the time to write it all. I think I would be hard pressed to listen to music at the rate he composed it!