CDX , sibilance, and mains

Oooh you are starting a spur v ring main debate all over again LOL.
I had a hi-capped 3.5 which used to be really good apart from the problem similar to which you describe. I solved it by swapping to a CDX2 (drastic i know).
Re your main, have you tried simple things like an unswitched MK socket, differant mains block? Have you tried plugging your cd into the main bypassing the mains block and seeing if that has any differance?

Can't help you re the voltage as I don't know enough about it, sorry.

P.s. seperate spurs (not ring mains) totally cured most things I thought were 'wrong' with my hi-fi (there-said it).

regards,
andy c

Hi Phil
A friend of mine brought round this CD only yesterday. We played it on my CDX into 82, 1 X HiCap, 250 into SBL’s and it sounded great! I have no special mains block, it’s a B&Q type thing that I hard wired and removed the neon and fuse. I can possibly understand why this material could be a bit sibilant, but sounded smooth and listenable on my system. I’m interested where you go with this. Maybe we have “good” mains in the area we live? We are in the sticks about 10 miles north of Bristol.
All the best
Martin

Fled -

What is your CDX sitting on? To really make this the Tread of All Threads, you have to introduce a stand debate

Seriously...the metal feet on the CDX can lead to excess treble and the sibilance you describe depending on what the CDX is sitting on. For a quick test in your setup, try adding something compliant between the CDX's feet and what it is sitting on. Even something tall, like half squash balls that raise the CDX off its feet, will give you an idea if the support is the cause.

And don’t believe those who say you must get an XPS. A $4,000+ CD player should not need a $4,000 power supply to not sound sibilant!

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

PR.
Maybe your right, its difficult to be certain if what I am hearing is "wrong" or I am just not used to the more prominent high frequencies.
I have just upgraded from a CD5+hi and that isnt as forward as the CDX !
I am just keen to wring out the best possible performance from my system.
The "sibilance/forward treble" is not irratating, just a little surprising, maybe what I am realy asking is .... is this how a CDx should sound !

I havnt brought stands into this, as that would lead to a divorce (currently stands unique/10mm glass with carbon isolators) I have tried a slab of mdf also clearaudio platform, and it made NO difference to the siblance but killed the bass and mid range - like cotton wool in your ears. Not sure about the squash balls, maybe I will give that a try.

Phil

unfortunalty all of them
mind you I listen at 10/10.30 on the volume dial

Hi Fled,

A couple of years ago I listened at home to a CDX. It was sat on Tripod & Mana stands. A few nice things came out of the speakers but really it sounded like a bag of nails.

I then bought some Hutter. I then tried it at home again and it was very, very different. I then bought one and have never looked back.

Until I got the Hutter the CDX literally gave me a head ache!

Food for thought………

Bob

fled, how old is the CDX? sorry if i missed that from your original post. if its less than 6-8 weeks old, then what you are heariing may be a burn-in process in action. i know it took my 252 about 2 weeks to clear its throad and shake off some very apparent sibilance.

stands may be an issue, to the extent that whatever you have has to be installed properly -- the CDX needs a level surface. and the whole stand whould be steady.

also if you wired your mains 13A plug, check it for insecure connections and fix if necessary.

enjoy

ken

I'll put in a vote for the speakers. How long have you run them in? I had 1.1s fronted by Nait 5 and various inputs. It was a bit sibilant at high volumes for several months. Once broken in, the sibilance went away.

In my experience this system is sensitive to the mains cables - they can make a HUGE difference!
I'm currently using a home-brew hyrda and I'm quite happy with my sound.
My system is CDX/82+2xHI/250/Kans.
The equipment is on an Optimum glass shelved rack and carbon isolators. (There's a picture in the System pics 2003 thread.)
I've also loosened the DIN locking rings.
Cables are stock SNAIC (mixture of grey and black), and black Naim speaker cable from around '90 (quite long lengths).

Paul Rowlands

Also from memory, coiled leads should be unwound if they are wound up - if that makes sense!
Martin

Hope you don't mind me adding my two pence worth!.

Your kit should not suffer unduly from the "s" word if it is either relatively new and run in, or has been serviced as Naim recommend (8 - 10 years). The system should be left on continuously also.

I find that if I don't have my Naim kit serviced within the 10 year window things don't sound good (particularly noticeable on high notes, they are masked and sound like the singer has a lisp).

Also the set up is critical. Careful isolation and separation of all the components is a must (I have Cd, amps and power supplies on half squash balls and on a good rack).

I have cleaned up my mains cable by using a spur from a 30 amp supply (only a shower on the same spur). I have used a cleaner on the brass parts of mains plugs and the fuses in the plugs. I have also kept interconnects clean and secure. I have also done the same on the distribution board fuses.

My system has very low levels of sibilance but it does get worse when any of the above needs re-doing.

Regards

Chris

WOW what a varied selection of replies, thanks to all.

To answer some questions.
1. Age of equipment ... It should be in its prime !! nothing older than 3yrs nothing newer than 16 mths !

2. It on a stands unique rack with 10mm glass and carbon isolators. Before the onslaught begings .. I like it !! If this is the cause then maybe it has to go, but I will try everything else first including putting balls under everything !!

3. The speakers are well worn in (2.5 yrs old)
and a bit like the rack .. I love them !

4. Cables hummm ! I have a 6 way musicworks block in this order (nearest to socket first) Cdx, 1 Hicap, 2 Hicap , 250 (also on a isotek lead, Napsc, the last hole is waiting for a XPS to come along )

5. Mains, Bog standard 13a ring, but with NOTHING else on it, well a lamp aa well.
A spur maybe the answer, but again this will cause a major family incident as I already have the label of obsesive hifi freak !!! and having recently decorated, this will be an upgrade to far, its easyier to hide new boxes, but to say lets rip up the carpet, move all the furniture, damage the walls all because Joss Stone hisses a bit will be difficult to argue.

What I realy need is for someone to come and listen to it, to be trufull I dont now if its right or wrong
I am certainly not saying its crap, I love it but its this niggaly fealing that its too siblant !
anyhow ... anyone fancy a trip into Brixham !!!
I have a rather handsome wine collection
Phil

PR.
OK so its not my sssssssssssytem. I dont get it with Nora (mind you I dont listen to her for to long without falling asleep )
But even with Nora she does sound "sharper" than when I had the CD5 (not as sultry !)
Phil

quote:

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Cables hummm ! I have a 6 way musicworks block in this order (nearest to socket first) Cdx, 1 Hicap, 2 Hicap , 250 (also on a isotek lead, Napsc, the last hole is waiting for a XPS to come along

---

i used to have mine like this but with latest dealer visit he suggested a different order, so I now have mine 135,135,SC,XPS,Lingo,Napsc. You might like to try this (dosn't cost anything) but I doubt it will have a significant effect on the sibilance.

At the end of the day the CDX is slightly more forward and forthright than the CD5 (or any of the new range) so things like this might be more noticable on some recordings. On the up side dull lifeless recordings will be instilled with more life and groove. (try Jamiroqui fro example)

this will start an even grater disscussion ?
I have tried the new stuff and was not that impressed ! (see my 282 a dissapointment thread
Apart from my cd5, which started me on the Naim ladder ! I love the olive sound I just want to get the most out of it, but the presentaion is bang on the nail for me, if it comes to a choice of "forward/sliblance" or what I percieve as "over warm" sound then I will go for the olive every time.
Phil

Roy.
OK I am up for it, will report when Ive tried it.
should be interesting I gave up rollies 3 yrs ago I hope this doesnt bring on a unhealthy habits !!
Phil

Hi again Fle,
I've just put a 282 and XPS2 into my system, and am well impressed - better sound stage, PR&T etc. Glad you are prepaired to be honest re you not liking the presentation of the 282.tho

Do have to say tho the single biggest change anything has made to my system in the VFM terms is sorting the mains (by some considerable way).

regards,
andy c!

new series amps "over-warm"? hmmm... definitely NOT my experience with nac252 so far. in fact, quite the opposite? however, this doesnt invalidate your experience.

hope everything settles down.

enjoy

ken

Fled,
I too have had almost the exact problems with my system. I currently have a CDX2 running it directly through a AV2 to a New 250 and onto some custom speakers. I also have two dedicated spurs. I had to address my room acoustics and change speakers to get some relief from my sibilance problems. Once it started to iritate me then a small amout of it would get my attention. I have gotten to the point where most of the sibilance I am getting is from the recordings themselfs. Yes I too just got the Jos Stone CD and was noticing the Sibilance on it. I get a lot on Holly Cole as well. My end conclusion of over 2 years of working on this problem is this. Room acoustics has a lot to do with it. What speakers has a lot to do with it. Many people on the Naim board have heard your exact equipment but very few have heard it in your room with your speakers!!!! I was forced to go to less revealing speakers when I started getting more revealing equipment. My problem now is once I started hearing sibilance I can't not notice it now and I am hypersensitive to it. Now some recordings make my system sound perfect with no room for improvement and other recordings make me want to turn it off. Does anyone have a cure once you become "sibilance sensitive"? Should we start a SS club?
Tennispro

good idea to set up a siblance club, not too sure we should call it the ss club though
phil

quote:

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But even with Nora she does sound "sharper" than when I had the CD5 (not as sultry !)

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These were my findings too (re. "sharpness") when I had a CD5/FC2 combo and compared it to a CDX that I borrowed for nearly a fortnight back in the summer of 2001. I took the CDX back and didn't order one until I'd changed my stand from an Optimum Prestige with glass shelves to a QS Ref with MDF ones. On the Optimum stand the CD5/FC2 combo actually sounded more musical and easier on the ear if less dynamic than the CDX.

Once the new rack was installed the CDX upgrade was a no-brainer.

The CDX reads what it sits on, pure and simple.

I now own both of Nora's albums and they sound just fine.

Next I intend to swap the MDF shelf under my CDX for a perspex one...



Regards,

Steve.

Rergarding order of plugging things in... In my adventures with the mains, I tried making my own plugboards. For my second attempt I made sure each socket connected via the same length of wire, just to avoid worrying about order. Unfortunately it sounded crap so I ditched it!

Paul Rowlands

results of fag paper trial .. Not sure ? it did make a slight difference ? I think.
So I tried something a little more "proffesional" I had already tried a clearaudio platform under the CDX and it was no good at all (killed the mid and lower range). Anyhow I have some unused partington toppers so i placed them under the cdx on some disks i found (the sort speaker spikes sit on) this made quite a dramatic change (for the better !)it removed a lot of the sibilance I was unhappy with and focused the music . Seeing this brought good benifits I then did the same for the 82 ... WOW. The "blackness" of the background is unbelivable, plus real seperation of instruments.
Lets hope this is not a fluke ! and continues to play this well.
Phi

'Er indoors' used to be sibilant, until she had her teeth done, that is. They do a wonderful job over here, trouble is ,it cost more than the hi-Fi.

Cheers Robert