Linn Genki source
Posted by: Nuno Baptista on 14 July 2002
Hello:
has anyone listened Linn source?Is it equal or inferior to a Naim cd 3.5?BTW,I´ve got a Nait 5 amplifier!
has anyone listened Linn source?Is it equal or inferior to a Naim cd 3.5?BTW,I´ve got a Nait 5 amplifier!
Posted on: 14 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
It depends on the context it is in. The Genki I have sounds awesome for a CD player. Although the Genki resides in an all Linn system - so synergy helps the overall opinion there.
In terms of timing, the Genki is one of the best machines out there. Anything you put in it grooves, no matter how bad the recording. Classical music sounds expressive too.
A Naim CD player will sound cleaner and have better resolution (and probably have better bass), but my Genki sounds more coherent.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
In terms of timing, the Genki is one of the best machines out there. Anything you put in it grooves, no matter how bad the recording. Classical music sounds expressive too.
A Naim CD player will sound cleaner and have better resolution (and probably have better bass), but my Genki sounds more coherent.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 14 July 2002 by caddyman
Hi,
The Genki is a suberb machine ( if you can put up with the awful loading drawer!) but as Andrew says NOT in a Naim system.
I bought one when my old Arcam expired to go with my Nait 2 and Kans. It was suberbly fast and explicit but awfully bright and made some of my discs totally unlistenable. It has a very forward mid and treble and an extremely fast,tight bass which really upset my system as it errs on the brighter side of neutral anyway.
BUT.... through my friends Linn Majik/Keilidh system it was suberb! It gave his system a real kick up the arse. The Genki really does sound at its best through Linn amps and if I hadn't have sold mine a month previous then I would have kept it. I returned it to the dealer and bought a Naim CD5 which sounds far better in my rig and I suspect yours too.
I hope this helps.
The Genki is a suberb machine ( if you can put up with the awful loading drawer!) but as Andrew says NOT in a Naim system.
I bought one when my old Arcam expired to go with my Nait 2 and Kans. It was suberbly fast and explicit but awfully bright and made some of my discs totally unlistenable. It has a very forward mid and treble and an extremely fast,tight bass which really upset my system as it errs on the brighter side of neutral anyway.
BUT.... through my friends Linn Majik/Keilidh system it was suberb! It gave his system a real kick up the arse. The Genki really does sound at its best through Linn amps and if I hadn't have sold mine a month previous then I would have kept it. I returned it to the dealer and bought a Naim CD5 which sounds far better in my rig and I suspect yours too.
I hope this helps.
Posted on: 14 July 2002 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by caddyman:
The Genki is a suberb machine ... but as Andrew says NOT in a Naim system.
I bought one when my old Arcam expired to go with my Nait 2 and Kans. It was suberbly fast and explicit but awfully bright and made some of my discs totally unlistenable. It has a very forward mid and treble and an extremely fast,tight bass which really upset my system as it errs on the brighter side of neutral anyway.
Can anyone confirm if there is an earthing issue with the Genki (i.e. that it isn't)?
Might have been OK with a separate earth to the NAIT?
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 14 July 2002 by Steve Toy
I really don't think a Genki would work so well with a Nait.
Then you have the issue of those Linn switch-mode power supplies which pollute the mains for a very mains-sensitive Naim amp - the Nait.
In isolation, or in an all-Linn sysem, the Genki is obviously a fine machine, but not in the context of Nuno's Nait.
CD5 or 3.5 is the only way...
Regards,
Steve.
The proof of the pudding...
Then you have the issue of those Linn switch-mode power supplies which pollute the mains for a very mains-sensitive Naim amp - the Nait.
In isolation, or in an all-Linn sysem, the Genki is obviously a fine machine, but not in the context of Nuno's Nait.
CD5 or 3.5 is the only way...
Regards,
Steve.
The proof of the pudding...
Posted on: 15 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
Mr Scary Story said:
Back it up with proof. I've listened to both, in the same system. The CDX wins from a detail, weight and scale perspective, the Genki wins in terms of timing and groove.
The plus-points of the Genki are not obvious on the first encounter. The CDX always sounds more impressive. It's a shame my feet weren't tapping as much to the CDX...
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
[This message was edited by Andrew Randle on MONDAY 15 July 2002 at 22:57.]
quote:
The good Doctor is talking absolute rubbish once again, Linn Genki is more coherent than a Naim player, TRIPE.
Back it up with proof. I've listened to both, in the same system. The CDX wins from a detail, weight and scale perspective, the Genki wins in terms of timing and groove.
The plus-points of the Genki are not obvious on the first encounter. The CDX always sounds more impressive. It's a shame my feet weren't tapping as much to the CDX...
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
[This message was edited by Andrew Randle on MONDAY 15 July 2002 at 22:57.]
Posted on: 16 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
Stephen King said:
Well maybe it is fact anyway, it sounds like you're relying too much on your preconceptions. Unless of course your opinions were formed from your own *direct* experiences. Even if you did, I doubt you'd be able to detect the subtle differences.
The fact is you haven't back your opinions on this matter with experience, and believe that gives you the right to comment.
Stephen King said:
Put it this way, I've heard the CDX in four separate systems. It is an impressive player; quick transients, great separation of instruments and good weight. However it doesn't quite enunciate music in the way I like.
Stephen King said:
Thank you for your concern, it really amazes me how generous some people are with their advice on this forum. I do my best to reciprocate... make sure try before you buy or before you let off steam on this forum.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
quote:
What a stupid statement back it up with proof, I suppose that proof means to you, because YOU say it is it makes it fact.
Well maybe it is fact anyway, it sounds like you're relying too much on your preconceptions. Unless of course your opinions were formed from your own *direct* experiences. Even if you did, I doubt you'd be able to detect the subtle differences.
The fact is you haven't back your opinions on this matter with experience, and believe that gives you the right to comment.
Stephen King said:
quote:
There are so many variables involved in deciding this is better than that because of this and that.
Put it this way, I've heard the CDX in four separate systems. It is an impressive player; quick transients, great separation of instruments and good weight. However it doesn't quite enunciate music in the way I like.
Stephen King said:
quote:
it often suprises me that why bother making statements like you always do critising one product against another, get a life.
Thank you for your concern, it really amazes me how generous some people are with their advice on this forum. I do my best to reciprocate... make sure try before you buy or before you let off steam on this forum.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 16 July 2002 by Tuan
I read on HiFi Choice about the Linn super stereo amp The Klimax Twin and about their cleaver switch mode power. Can anyone provide some insights on the topic and hopefully back up with actual listening. Andrew could you please provide some inputs on this topic.
Posted on: 16 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
Geoff,
You weren't hallucinating (although I'm sure some members here would accuse me of this
).
I've emailed you a link to my appalling bit of scandal and heresy.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
You weren't hallucinating (although I'm sure some members here would accuse me of this
).I've emailed you a link to my appalling bit of scandal and heresy.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 16 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
quote:
I read on HiFi Choice about the Linn super stereo amp The Klimax Twin and about their cleaver switch mode power. Can anyone provide some insights on the topic and hopefully back up with actual listening. Andrew could you please provide some inputs on this topic.
The "switched mode power supply" isn't technically a switched mode power supply, but a variation of the concept. Interestingly the intense RF field produced by the power supply is separated from the amplification circuits by means of an aluminium block between the two. Similarly the aluminium shell shields other compenents from the RF field.
My personal experience of these amps have not been good, but I suspect unfavourable set-up and operating environments at Hi-Fi shows. The effect was grey, drained and washed-out. In fact my own system (which is far far cheaper) sounds immensely better. The jury is out until I hear them in a proper room.
One thing for sure, I won't be arranging a demo until I'm ready to buy... that will be a long time, if at all.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 16 July 2002 by Simon Perry
Never mind about whether a Genki is better than a CDX or a CD5 or whatever, what I want to know is who's got a CD player that sounds better than a good vinyl setup?
Posted on: 16 July 2002 by Simon Perry
But when I heard the Linn I didn't like it.
Posted on: 16 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
Simon said:
How good is "good"?
What criteria do you prioritise?
Andrew
P.S. Fair do's about your findings on the Genki. What was the system and circumstances it was playing in?
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
quote:
I want to know is who's got a CD player that sounds better than a good vinyl setup?
How good is "good"?
What criteria do you prioritise?
Andrew
P.S. Fair do's about your findings on the Genki. What was the system and circumstances it was playing in?
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 17 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
Maybe Linn sneakily shoe-horned a CD12 into my Genki box in an undercover strategic move to convert a vocal Naim advocate
I believe the Genki has changed over time anyway.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
I believe the Genki has changed over time anyway.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 17 July 2002 by Peter Stockwell
Anybody have the gall to prefer Ikemi/Majik to CDX/Nait 5 ? Or is there anybody with an Ikemi fronting naim amps ?
Peter
Peter
Posted on: 17 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
Also adding amplifiers from another company with a slightly different set of values can detract from the strengths of the source.
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 19 July 2002 by Dave J
C'mon guy's, I thought this was a forum which encouraged positive debate. We ALL listen to equipment before we buy it, don't we? And we all go and listen to a component in the context of our existing equipment (prefereably at home) before deciding which is best rather than simply basing our purchasing decisions on what someone else tells us. How many times has this been covered!
I use an Ikemi in preference to a CDX and I use an 82/Hi/250 in preference to the Linn equivalent. I prefer Naim's business philosophy to Linn's and have found their after sales service and customer care vastly preferable BUT I chose the Ikemi because it sounded better than a CDX in my system despite my having expectations to the contrary.
Yes, I'd prefer a CDS2 and yes, I'll probably get one in the future but, whilst I'm interested in hearing other people's views, I'm certainly not going to choose something based upon their preferences.
Bottom line: the Ikemi sounds great with Naim amplification. If you're in the market for a £2000-ish player, ignore your prejudices and have a listen. If you don't like it, that's fine but let's have less of the uninformed opinions based upon heresay.
Rant over, the Klimax Twin that I heard recently didn't do it for me. It also has a cooling fan which kicks in at fairly modest listening levels and would take some getting used to.
Dave
I use an Ikemi in preference to a CDX and I use an 82/Hi/250 in preference to the Linn equivalent. I prefer Naim's business philosophy to Linn's and have found their after sales service and customer care vastly preferable BUT I chose the Ikemi because it sounded better than a CDX in my system despite my having expectations to the contrary.
Yes, I'd prefer a CDS2 and yes, I'll probably get one in the future but, whilst I'm interested in hearing other people's views, I'm certainly not going to choose something based upon their preferences.
Bottom line: the Ikemi sounds great with Naim amplification. If you're in the market for a £2000-ish player, ignore your prejudices and have a listen. If you don't like it, that's fine but let's have less of the uninformed opinions based upon heresay.
Rant over, the Klimax Twin that I heard recently didn't do it for me. It also has a cooling fan which kicks in at fairly modest listening levels and would take some getting used to.
Dave
Posted on: 22 July 2002 by Peter Stockwell
quote:
Originally posted by Dave J:
I chose the Ikemi because it sounded better than a CDX in my system despite my having expectations to the contrary.
Dave
Dave,
I'm in the price range of a CDX/Ikemi, etc. Can you articulate what it was that you preferred about the Ikemi over the CDX ?
Peter
Posted on: 22 July 2002 by Dave J
Hi Peter,
The CDX was perfectly pleasant but was not significantly better than the Karik I had been using.
It may have timed a little better than the Karik but I found that there were elements in the recording that could no longer be heard. For example, drum kits were less natural, particularly cymbals, which lost much of the 'wooden stick striking a metallic object' nature and you couldn't easily tell the difference between a rim shot and a normal 'thwack' on the snare. I also noticed that on some tracks its inability to deal with strands of information in complex passages made these tracks much less satifying to listen to. Very nice on simple acoustic stuff but not as good on multi-instrumental pieces.
Initially, whilst the Ikemi certainly delivered more (and more believable)information than the CDX and was clearly better than the Karik, particularly in it's ability to produce bass, I didn't feel it was worth the £1500 it would cost to upgrade. Nevertheless, if I'd been choosing from scratch I would have taken the Ikemi.
What made me decide to upgrade however was when we connected up an earthing lead from the Ikemi's case to the 32.5 earthing post.
The transition was simply amazing. Groove, ambient information, space between instruments, access to the performance, coherence - everything suddenly slotted into place in a way that instantly brings a smile to your face. Comparing this version with the CDX lead me to write out the cheque in favour of the Ikemi there and then.
Fortunately, I was able to do the comparisons at home within my system. Both players were dealer dem models of similar vintage but I am prepared to accept that the CDX would have improved after extensive warm up (but then so did the Ikemi)and that its strengths would have been more obvious with a better pre-amp. Nevertheles, upgrading to an 82 earlier this year has allowed the Ikemi to really sing.
I have subsequently heard the CDX with an XPS and, if money were no object, it would certainly have been a more difficult choice. However, I'm still not sure I would choose the combination over the Ikemi and, given the price difference, I'd recommend anyone to at least have a listen.
Cheers
Dave
The CDX was perfectly pleasant but was not significantly better than the Karik I had been using.
It may have timed a little better than the Karik but I found that there were elements in the recording that could no longer be heard. For example, drum kits were less natural, particularly cymbals, which lost much of the 'wooden stick striking a metallic object' nature and you couldn't easily tell the difference between a rim shot and a normal 'thwack' on the snare. I also noticed that on some tracks its inability to deal with strands of information in complex passages made these tracks much less satifying to listen to. Very nice on simple acoustic stuff but not as good on multi-instrumental pieces.
Initially, whilst the Ikemi certainly delivered more (and more believable)information than the CDX and was clearly better than the Karik, particularly in it's ability to produce bass, I didn't feel it was worth the £1500 it would cost to upgrade. Nevertheless, if I'd been choosing from scratch I would have taken the Ikemi.
What made me decide to upgrade however was when we connected up an earthing lead from the Ikemi's case to the 32.5 earthing post.
The transition was simply amazing. Groove, ambient information, space between instruments, access to the performance, coherence - everything suddenly slotted into place in a way that instantly brings a smile to your face. Comparing this version with the CDX lead me to write out the cheque in favour of the Ikemi there and then.
Fortunately, I was able to do the comparisons at home within my system. Both players were dealer dem models of similar vintage but I am prepared to accept that the CDX would have improved after extensive warm up (but then so did the Ikemi)and that its strengths would have been more obvious with a better pre-amp. Nevertheles, upgrading to an 82 earlier this year has allowed the Ikemi to really sing.
I have subsequently heard the CDX with an XPS and, if money were no object, it would certainly have been a more difficult choice. However, I'm still not sure I would choose the combination over the Ikemi and, given the price difference, I'd recommend anyone to at least have a listen.
Cheers
Dave
Posted on: 22 July 2002 by Steve Toy
I heard an Ikemi in my system a couple of years ago, and a CD3.5 blew it away.
The CD3.5 just made more sense of all the musical threads than the Ikemi.
The Ikemi was also rather inarticulate in the bass.
Regards,
Steve.
Let your ears do the talking, let your remote control do the walking...
The CD3.5 just made more sense of all the musical threads than the Ikemi.
The Ikemi was also rather inarticulate in the bass.
Regards,
Steve.
Let your ears do the talking, let your remote control do the walking...
Posted on: 22 July 2002 by Dave J
quote:
I heard an Ikemi in my system a couple of years ago, and a CD3.5 blew it away.
The CD3.5 just made more sense of all the musical threads than the Ikemi.
The Ikemi was also rather inarticulate in the bass.
And there you have it!! Different system , different ears, different perceptions.
Dave
Posted on: 22 July 2002 by Steve Toy
We have only been discussing the matter this afternoon.
Come on Andrew, post your Ikemi findings!
Regards,
Steve.
Let your ears do the talking, let your remote control do the walking...
Come on Andrew, post your Ikemi findings!
Regards,
Steve.
Let your ears do the talking, let your remote control do the walking...
Posted on: 22 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
Today involved a rather strange afternoon demo of various Linn equipment.
Finally I heard a proper-sounding Ikemi and was impressed, however the Genki still "does it" for me. I still prefer the emotional impact of the
Genki. The Ikemi is definitely superior in hi-fi terms (clearer, more bass and dimensionality), but to me the Genki lets its hair down more and run with the music.
Going active was strangely disappointing... the performance seemed smaller and more compact - not as free. This was definitely different to my expectations as I expected the heavens to open and tides to part. Active/passive demos seems to be a candidate for home demonstration. I've always been a fan of active systems but the demo may have been a one-off result.
Then came the Kairn, and wow, finally an upgrade that I love. All the emotion and expression remained intact, yet there was more detail, tonal
balance and clarity added. The phono stage would also have been just the ticket for my LP12 too. I very nearly bought it, however I believe
I should wait until the Kairn replacement arrives later this year.
Going back to passive on the Kairn again revealed that passive in this system was superior for whatever reason. Judgement is still reserved on going active. Perhaps I need bigger amps before taking that step.
Anyway, all this isn't too relevant to a *Naim* board. Although it does address my feelings on the Genki - interesting that I prefer the cheaper CD player, this means it'll be staying in my system for a while until something much better comes along.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Finally I heard a proper-sounding Ikemi and was impressed, however the Genki still "does it" for me. I still prefer the emotional impact of the
Genki. The Ikemi is definitely superior in hi-fi terms (clearer, more bass and dimensionality), but to me the Genki lets its hair down more and run with the music.
Going active was strangely disappointing... the performance seemed smaller and more compact - not as free. This was definitely different to my expectations as I expected the heavens to open and tides to part. Active/passive demos seems to be a candidate for home demonstration. I've always been a fan of active systems but the demo may have been a one-off result.
Then came the Kairn, and wow, finally an upgrade that I love. All the emotion and expression remained intact, yet there was more detail, tonal
balance and clarity added. The phono stage would also have been just the ticket for my LP12 too. I very nearly bought it, however I believe
I should wait until the Kairn replacement arrives later this year.
Going back to passive on the Kairn again revealed that passive in this system was superior for whatever reason. Judgement is still reserved on going active. Perhaps I need bigger amps before taking that step.
Anyway, all this isn't too relevant to a *Naim* board. Although it does address my feelings on the Genki - interesting that I prefer the cheaper CD player, this means it'll be staying in my system for a while until something much better comes along.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 06 February 2003 by jayd
At the risk of rekindling a minor flame war (NOT my hope or intention), I wanted to add an interesting postscript to Steven Toy's observation:
I just read that Tony Levin, bassist extraordinaire, owns a full Linn system fronted by an Ikemi. Wonder how he puts up with the inarticulate bass?
best regards,
Jay
quote:
The Ikemi was also rather inarticulate in the bass.
I just read that Tony Levin, bassist extraordinaire, owns a full Linn system fronted by an Ikemi. Wonder how he puts up with the inarticulate bass?
best regards,
Jay
Posted on: 06 February 2003 by Peter Stockwell
quote:
Originally posted by jayd:
At the risk of rekindling a minor flame war (NOT my hope or intention), I wanted to add an interesting postscript to Steven Toy's observation:quote:
The Ikemi was also rather inarticulate in the bass.
I just read that Tony Levin, bassist extraordinaire, owns a full Linn system fronted by an Ikemi. Wonder how he puts up with the inarticulate bass?
best regards,
Jay
jay,
It's quite surprising how musicians will have staggeringly expensive (to non musicians) instruments and yet when it comes to listening to music have rather ordinary systems. I think you'll find that when listening they are more able to construct the, for want of a better word, tune from less information than non musicians.
have you joined the Nuno fan club ?
Peter
Posted on: 07 February 2003 by leeto
Perhaps it's a relative thing? CD3.5 is more articulate in the bass than the Ikemi but Ikemi is pretty articulate in absolute terms?
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Stockwell:quote:
Originally posted by jayd:
At the risk of rekindling a minor flame war (NOT my hope or intention), I wanted to add an interesting postscript to Steven Toy's observation:quote:
The Ikemi was also rather inarticulate in the bass.
I just read that Tony Levin, bassist extraordinaire, owns a full Linn system fronted by an Ikemi. Wonder how he puts up with the inarticulate bass?
best regards,
Jay
jay,
It's quite surprising how musicians will have staggeringly expensive (to non musicians) instruments and yet when it comes to listening to music have rather ordinary systems. I think you'll find that when listening they are more able to construct the, for want of a better word, tune from less information than non musicians.
have you joined the Nuno fan club ?
Peter