I recently purchased a used Rega P9 that came with a Benz M2 cartridge that has very low hour on it. I also decided to use the internal phono boards for now as the Prefix presented different problems with the P9. I decided it was time to try out vinyl because I was getting tired of throwing big chucks of cash at my CD player and always just getting CLOSER to analogue. At half the upgrade cost of taking my CDS1 to a CDS2 I knew I would be in analogue world and would have a taste of vinyl. There seem to be many people fanatical about vinyl being superior to digital so I wanted to listen for myself.
My immediate impression is vinyl with the P9 is much more expressive and captivating than any CD player I have heard. The differences are not subjective. My CDS1 has a more PRaT emphasis and the CDS2 a little more laid back and smoother presentation. The P9 seems to communicate both of these aspects and to my surprise in a single recording. There is a clearer definition of the relative PRaT and relative smoothness for each instrument in a single song. The CD play back seems to have an emphasis that effects all of the instruments in a recording and can be heard from CD to CD. It can be very subtle but identifiable. This would probably account for why some CDs sound good on the one CD player and not on the other and visa versa. Vinyl seems to capture the benefits of both as everything is enjoyable. Tracks that I would normally skip over are now enjoyable in ways the CD players can't communicate.
Vinyl also communicates the weight of the instruments better. There is a bloom to the bass which gives a sense of weight without losing the speed and tightness of the image. With CD players bass weight always seemed to be in conflict with tightness and speed. The more tightness you have the leaner the weight. How many people complain about loss of weight when they upgrade? Along with the added weight vinyl has much better tonal color and greater tonal color contrast between instruments which make each instrument sound much more real.
So far I have only found a couple of CD recording that outperforms the LP. All of them are MFSL or other gold CD pressing and comparing them to standard LP pressing (Steely Dan's Aja as an example). I anticipate that the result would swing with the MFSL LP pressings. I am very curious on how vinyl improves with a better TT, cartridge and the Prefix phono stage if my P9/Benz is only middle line.
Now that I am back into vinyl I am now questioning all of my prior CD player purchase decisions. If I had the opportunity to compare a decent TT to a top of the line CD player on a good system I probably would have never made the climb up to a CDS player. I am now actually entertaining the idea of replacing most of my CDs with vinyl and down grading my CD player. I primarily listen to the older jazz (50s and 60s) and 70s pop and rock and everything seems to be available on vinyl. I recently bought a VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine which is amazing how it restores the $1-$2 records I have been accumulating. My only concern about downgrading is I probably won't listen to CDs if the play back standard is significantly lower. But over the last 3-4 weeks I haven't listened to a single CD. I will give it more time before I make a decision.
I would advise everyone to explore the limits of vinyl before they take their CD source to the limit.
John
Posted on: 07 September 2001 by JRHardee
Welcome back. Don't be in a hurry to downgrade the CD player. Not only will you take a big monetary hit, but the more vinyl you listen to, the more you'll demand from your CD player. Do you really want your CD's to sound worse in comparison to vinyl than they already do? Enjoy what you have, and save your pennies toward a used LP-12.
Posted on: 07 September 2001 by LennyK
Your experience mirrors mine.
Some thoughts. Take your time setting up your turntable correctly, the more attention to detail, the better the results you will get. If you can, acquire the Rega wall shelf that is designed for your turntable. It made a big difference when I owned a P3. I'm not familiar with your cartridge, but since you have an excellent turntable, go ahead and try out other well regarded cartridges mentioned on this forum to see if any worth while gains are made. At some point you will need to replace it anyway, so experimenting now will pay dividends later. Set cartridge down force weight to manufacturers specifications, then add or subtract weight by ear to get the best sound for your set-up. A very good matching phono stage is a good idea too. Preferably one made by Naim.
I generally avoid audiophile pressings, as they may sound better, but they tend to suck the life out of the performance. Of course this does not apply to all of them.
Enjoy the music!
Lennart
Posted on: 07 September 2001 by Eric Barry
In general, mint first pressings of an album are preferred to all subsequent issues, not matter how many grams of vinyl or what speed they were pressed at.
MFSL has been documented to equalize their tapes for more bass and treble--the effect is not subtle on an excellent system, and is not very pleasant. Some titles are good, but most all are overpriced. The pressing quality is immaculate, however.
--Eric
Posted on: 07 September 2001 by SaturnSF
May I chime in and say that the one Simply Vinyl pressing I own (Talk Talk's "The Spirit of Eden") sounds lifeless and dull as well. The pressing itself is first rate, for what that's worth.
Posted on: 09 September 2001 by John
Any setups suggestions? I have my P9 sitting ontop of my 52 which sits on the top shelf of my 2 tier Mana stand, my CDS sits on the bottom shelf. The P9 powersupply is under the two tier stand and plugged into a seperate power socket. I have found that my system drops down a couple of notches when I have the power supply pugged into the same line as my system. I am thinking of getting a Mana wallmount for the TT only. I think the powersupply is only for the rotation of the platter so I can't see there any benefit from having it on Mana as it just has to be rotating at the correct speed. Is this assumption correct? How much better is the Mana over the Rega wallmount?
Also how would you describe how the TT fails when it has setup issues to resolve? Is it similar to how a CD player fails?
Any help is appreciated.
John
Posted on: 09 September 2001 by Jens
John,
Welcome to the world of vinyl. You are in luck-if you like jazz from the 50s and 60s, make sure that you check out the reissues of classic LPs by Thelonius Monk, Miles Davis, Bill Evans etc that are being done by Fantasy Records. Basically these guys are rereleasing the old Riverside label, and doing a really great job too. When I compare these old recordings from the 50s on LP to the newest CD releases by contemporary jazz musicians (check out Paul Grabowski) I am astounded at their quality. All those things you mentioned in your post are confirmed by the comparison.
Cheers,
Jens
Posted on: 09 September 2001 by John
James, before the TT I had my 52 and CDS on the two tier and the CDPS, Supercap and 135's on a 4 tier Mana rack. In playing around with my setup to try and fit in the TT in I discovered you can't put the CD player or preamp with the power supplies. You lose the magic.
To my surpise the P9 sounds great ontop of my 52 and there is enough space on the bottom shelf to operate the CDS. Any thoughts on whether the P9 power supply would benfit from being on Mana? As far as I can tell the power supply is only responsible for the rotation of the platter.
Thanks
John
Posted on: 10 September 2001 by Jens
Hi Dugby,
As far as I know the best place to buy any sort of vinyl in Perth, including the Fantasy Records label, is Dada Records, 36 Pier St, Perth.
They sell the Fantasy Records for A$20-27, which is not that much more than you can get through the net, especially when you include postage. They also have stacks of second hand LPs at very reasonable prices. I bought 2 the other day for the grand total of $11, and found them to be indistinguishable from new, which pleased me very much (although it might have been a fluke, I suppose).
Cheers, Jens
