The pit bull in lipstick
Posted by: fred simon on 06 October 2008
Since Ronald Reagan, no American presidential candidate who is leading in the polls at this point before election has lost.
As of this writing, Obama is leading, and the Republicans are getting desperate, so we have GOP VP candidate Sarah Palin, the pit bull in lipstick (her own self-description), accusing Obama of "palling around with terrorists."
Fear mongering worked for Goering and the Nazis, and it's worked for BushCo for the last eight years. Never mind that Palin is talking about one "terrorist," William Ayers, a former American radical left-wing Weatherman from the 60s who was active when Obama was 8 years old.
But that's not really who Palin is referring to when she says Obama is "palling around with terrorists" because her target audience doesn't know about Ayers, the Weathermen, and the 60s ... they do know about 9/11, Al Qaeda, and Muslims. Well, gee, doggone it, Obama's middle name is "Hussein" ... they keep repeating that 24/7 on right-wing talk radio, so he must be a Muslim, right? And now Palin says he's "palling around with terrorists."
Despicable, reprehensible, lying, swift-boating assholes.
Fred
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by Jim Lawson
quote:Originally posted by csl:
There is more to the state of the country than the current fluxuations of the economy.
elaborate
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by csl
a more wholistic evaluation of the country/world would take into account more than just the last close of the dow.
what rights as individuals did we have in 2000 that we don't have today?
what further degradation has the environment suffered due to new laws or lack thereof.
what are our relationships with other countries, how have they improved or degraded?
have we as a nation taken it upon ourselves to collectively kill innocent citizens in foreign countries, or have we promoted peace?
have we as a society taken steps to insure each citizens rights as described in the constition, or have we allowed the rights of some to be enhanced and the rights of others to be restricgted.
do we as a nation advocated torture or do we repudiate it.
really the list is endless. my view is that we as a society have regressed over the course of the last eight years.
what rights as individuals did we have in 2000 that we don't have today?
what further degradation has the environment suffered due to new laws or lack thereof.
what are our relationships with other countries, how have they improved or degraded?
have we as a nation taken it upon ourselves to collectively kill innocent citizens in foreign countries, or have we promoted peace?
have we as a society taken steps to insure each citizens rights as described in the constition, or have we allowed the rights of some to be enhanced and the rights of others to be restricgted.
do we as a nation advocated torture or do we repudiate it.
really the list is endless. my view is that we as a society have regressed over the course of the last eight years.
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by csl
Holistic rather.
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by Don Atkinson
quote:really the list is endless. my view is that we as a society have regressed over the course of the last eight years.
errr, not just the last eight years.....IMHO
But specifically, what are you refering to in your 5th bullet point? "....to collectively kill innocent citizens in foreign countries....."
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by csl
as a citizen of the usa, i am responsible for the actions my country takes. that is the whole point of representative democracy. when the us drops a bomb on a bunch of innocent citizens in iraq, i and my fellow countryman are morally responsible for the act, regardless of how detached we are. personally, i don't really care for that responsiblity.
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by Don Atkinson
When was last time the US deliberately dropped a bomb on innocent citizens in Iraq.
Cheers
Don
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by csl
Whether the intention is deliberate or not is meaningless. The US simply should not be dropping bombs in Iraq.
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by Don Atkinson
Not everybody outside the US agrees with your point of view. Probably 50/50. If you pulled out of Iraq today, you would create a bloodbath approaching armaggedon. I think you have other, more pressing problems to fix in your list.
Cheers
Don
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by csl
i didnt advocate pulling out. we simply shouldn't be there. i think more than half the world would agree with that. nor did i say this is our current most pressing problem.
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by Don Atkinson
quote:. i think more than half the world would agree with that
If that were a fact, it would just mean that half the world is wrong IMHO. But the point is, that just because its a majority point of view (either way), it doesn't mean its right.
But its good to note that you aren't pulling out and that its not your most pressing problem.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by csl
what i am arguing is that it was wrong to go there in the first place. even colin powell regrets his performance at the U.N.
Posted on: 18 October 2008 by Don Atkinson
quote:what i am arguing is that it was wrong to go there in the first place
I know.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 19 October 2008 by GraemeH
quote:Originally posted by Reginald Halliday:
Brilliant and frighteningly accurate!
Posted on: 19 October 2008 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by csl:
even colin powell regrets his performance at the U.N.
And now Powell is making good with his endorsement today of Obama. This is huge!
Add to that the recent endorsement of Obama by the venerable Republican Chicago Tribune, the first Democrat they have ever endorsed for president.
Obama has a 14 point lead in some polls. And 100,000 people showed up at a rally in St. Louis, Missouri, a swing state leaning toward Obama.
There's something happening here, and what it is is exactly clear!
All best,
Fred
Posted on: 19 October 2008 by bhazen
quote:Originally posted by fred simon:
And now Powell is making good with his endorsement today of Obama. This is huge!
Huge? The election's already won for Obama - that was Powell (the guy I really wanted for President, regardless of party) trying to repair his legacy after selling the Iraq war. Huge would've been to endorse the day after the R convention was over - all that Palin nonsense would've been deflated.
Still, the only way McCain wins now is an unprecedented campaign of Rovery in almost every non-red state. The R's don't have the means or energy for that now.
Cheers,
Bruce
p.s. Palin didn't do anything on SNL; I was hoping for something that demonstrated some mocking self-awareness on her part, got nothing really. An opportunity missed by the McCain campaign.
Posted on: 19 October 2008 by NaimDropper
Was just reading an article on Colin Powell and his support.
Had planned on taping NBC’s Meet the Press this AM since he was the guest for the entire hour, but I didn’t do it.
Fred, did you catch Palin on SNL last night? I didn’t bother with that either. Seems very high stakes for the Reps to put her in the “liberal media snake pit” like that. I hope she got a proper scare, but they must have her surrounded by handlers to keep the fangs and rattles at bay.
And I thought you might have some comments on my Palin Song posting.
My phone is ringing off the hook with people trying to get my vote, just had to hang up (as politely as I could) on someone in mid-sentence after I had explained to them three times that I don't respond to telephone solicitation. Ugh! Can’t wait for this thing to be over.
I’m heading over to our County Board of Elections to vote early (not often) so I can tell the telephone solicitors it is “too late” for me, no matter their offering.
David
Had planned on taping NBC’s Meet the Press this AM since he was the guest for the entire hour, but I didn’t do it.
Fred, did you catch Palin on SNL last night? I didn’t bother with that either. Seems very high stakes for the Reps to put her in the “liberal media snake pit” like that. I hope she got a proper scare, but they must have her surrounded by handlers to keep the fangs and rattles at bay.
And I thought you might have some comments on my Palin Song posting.
My phone is ringing off the hook with people trying to get my vote, just had to hang up (as politely as I could) on someone in mid-sentence after I had explained to them three times that I don't respond to telephone solicitation. Ugh! Can’t wait for this thing to be over.
I’m heading over to our County Board of Elections to vote early (not often) so I can tell the telephone solicitors it is “too late” for me, no matter their offering.
David
Posted on: 19 October 2008 by NaimDropper
Oh, and it is "huge", but so was Liberman's speech at the Rep convention, at least in moral terms. Won't have the same effect due to the timing and Powell's popularity.
I think most people realize he was being a "good soldier" for W, but forgiveness is probably out of the question. At least forgiveness to the point of him running for a big office.
David
I think most people realize he was being a "good soldier" for W, but forgiveness is probably out of the question. At least forgiveness to the point of him running for a big office.
David
Posted on: 19 October 2008 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by bhazen:quote:Originally posted by fred simon:
And now Powell is making good with his endorsement today of Obama. This is huge!
Huge? The election's already won for Obama - that was Powell (the guy I really wanted for President, regardless of party) trying to repair his legacy after selling the Iraq war. Huge would've been to endorse the day after the R convention was over - all that Palin nonsense would've been deflated.
I still think Powell's endorsement huge, and its timing is impeccable; it's that late-in-the-game home run that helps give Obama a push over the top. It wouldn't have reverberated long enough had it come right after the RNC, and Palin didn't need deflating ... she's pulled her own plug.
When Colin Powell says that Obama is a "transformational figure" who could be an "exceptional president" there are many independent voters who take notice, and they tend to not decide until this final stage of the campaign.
There is a groundswell of support for Obama, and it's manifesting not only in poll numbers but in the steady drumbeat of conservatives/Republicans endorsing Obama: Christopher Buckley (William F's son), The Chicago Tribune, and now Powell.
It ain't over yet, of course, but it sure feels like destiny.
All best,
Fred
Posted on: 19 October 2008 by bhazen
Hmm; I think you are probably right Fred, about the timing and the undecideds. They've gotta be sick over there at the RNC!
I can't help but hope that Powell endorsing Obama was a dash of cold water to McCain's conscience - the next few days shold tell the tale.
I've been gratified by the honesty displayed by some conservatives (at last!) - Chris Buckley, Kathleen Parker, Frum, Brooks, and (no doubt) others who haven't yet screwed up the courage to stick their heads up above the parapets. As someone who still believes in old-school conservatism (i.e., pre-Gingrich/DeLay/Bush et. al.), I'm hoping the best ideals of the movement (individual freedom, non-statist free enterprise, reticence about foreign wars, small government, non-Christianist, and last but not least, intellect and real-world knowledge - no more Palins, please) can make a comeback. Having an honourable opponent (Obama) and some time in the wilderness may do the R's (or whoever succeeds them as a real conservative party) a world of good.
But at the moment, it appears the Republicans are marching off into the mists of history...to join the Whigs.
I can't help but hope that Powell endorsing Obama was a dash of cold water to McCain's conscience - the next few days shold tell the tale.
I've been gratified by the honesty displayed by some conservatives (at last!) - Chris Buckley, Kathleen Parker, Frum, Brooks, and (no doubt) others who haven't yet screwed up the courage to stick their heads up above the parapets. As someone who still believes in old-school conservatism (i.e., pre-Gingrich/DeLay/Bush et. al.), I'm hoping the best ideals of the movement (individual freedom, non-statist free enterprise, reticence about foreign wars, small government, non-Christianist, and last but not least, intellect and real-world knowledge - no more Palins, please) can make a comeback. Having an honourable opponent (Obama) and some time in the wilderness may do the R's (or whoever succeeds them as a real conservative party) a world of good.
But at the moment, it appears the Republicans are marching off into the mists of history...to join the Whigs.
Posted on: 19 October 2008 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by bhazen:
I've been gratified by the honesty displayed by some conservatives (at last!) - Chris Buckley, Kathleen Parker, Frum, Brooks, and (no doubt) others who haven't yet screwed up the courage to stick their heads up above the parapets.
Yes, as well as one of Obama's earliest supporters, Andrew Sullivan.
Fred
Posted on: 21 October 2008 by Jim Lawson
Posted on: 21 October 2008 by csl
Jim,
is this irony? the interviewees just sound clueless. and chances are, they wont bother to vote either way.
is this irony? the interviewees just sound clueless. and chances are, they wont bother to vote either way.
Posted on: 21 October 2008 by Jim Lawson
quote:Originally posted by csl:
Jim,
is this irony?
It is something...
Posted on: 21 October 2008 by bhazen
quote:Originally posted by fred simon:
Yes, as well as one of Obama's earliest supporters, Andrew Sullivan.
Fred
Yeah, you could describe me as a Sullivan-style conservative. I really like Andrew's blog, anyway.
Posted on: 21 October 2008 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by Jim Lawson:
Republicans are stupid
I'm not sure of the point. There are stupid people everywhere.
Fred