500/Wilson vs Chord/Wilson Benesch in Chicago

Posted by: David Antonelli on 25 April 2002

Hi,

I haven't posted in a while, but I thought my recent weekend in chicago might be of interest to some on the forum. The systems I heard were a) the new Wilson Benesch Chimeras with Chord amplification and either a Metronome Technologies CD player or a Nottingham TT (Symphony Sound) and b) CDS2/52/500 all FRAIMED with Wilson Audio Sofias (Pro Musica).

At home I have a CDS2/52/250 all on WB triptych/aside with WB ACT 2 speakers. Soon to upgrade to a 500.

a) The first system I heard was at Symphony sound near the U of Chicago. The chimeras are strikingly elegant speakers with a two box design (trebble and mid in an upper unit and two isobarik tactics on the lower unit all aranged to look seemelessly like a single unit from even very close) The bass is not ported as in the ACT 2. At first we heard the Metronome CD player. While the system impressed with its control and depth with seemless driver systems and ability to play loud without any trace of distortion, there was a very dry and even bleached high end. This was more evident on a Sonic Youth CD than on the Dead Can Dance CD. So I asked dealer to switch to a nottingham TT they had set up. What a revelation! The TT embarassed the 12 K USD CD player. The sounds were seemless, dynamic, and liquid, with no sense of there being speakers there at all, but none of the fakeness normally associated with speakers that try to "create the live experience" by too much attention to imaging and not enough attention to timing. The system sounded "bigger" and less forced than my system at home and I just wanted to listen all day. Yet I did note at times that the music seemed almost too clean as though harmonics were cut out to give an impression of greater precision (is this the Chord effect?), My system at home seemed more organic and real while also lacking the bottom end control and absolute bass extention. Also, these speakers had no sweet spot and wherever I went in the room they sounded just as good.

b) At pro musica the main room was being renovated so we had to substitute sofias for the more expensive system 6. Here we listened to a few tracks on Tracey Chapman's debut CD. My first impression was that the bass was muddy and the trebble raspy without there being any sense of live music at all. It sounded like a big boom box with instruments not occupying any part of the soundstage but being smeared all over the place. My girl friend noticed this too. But as the songs progressed there was a sense of great warmth and drive and groove that I normally associate with naim. I wanted to sit and listen all day just on the emotion of the music. It made me forget the obvious shortcoming sof the 12 K white elephants the naim gear had a misfortune of being be hooked up to.

So I would rate the Metronome Tech CD based system a complete rip off, the Naim system the second best (I think the speakers just weren't for me) and the Nottingham/Chord/Chimera system the best, but lacking the final element of fleshiness and drama of the 500 system.

So I left with the sense that the Chimera IS a better speaker than the ACT 2, but only in terms of shear weight and scale, and that I like naim electronics more than Chord and that If somone were to demo a CDS2/52/500 Chimera I would be in seventh heaven. But my soon to be CDS2/52/500 Act 2 won't be too far off...

dave«
Posted on: 25 April 2002 by ejl
Dave,
Do you notice which model Nottingham and the arm/cart. configuration? Just curious what sounded so good.
Posted on: 25 April 2002 by David Antonelli
Hi,

I am not so familiar with nottingham turntables, but whatever it was had a huge platform like a wedding cake and a very fussy tone arm configuration. I noticed something about "spacedeck" or something written on it. Whatever it was sounded A LOT be tter than the CD player. Maybe it is not the ultimate in turntables, but it certainly was a relief after the very overpriced and bright CD player.

dave
Posted on: 25 April 2002 by skraft
David,

Sounds like a fun day. I have had a very different experience pairing Naim with the Sophias.

At the dealer, cdx/102/psc/hi/250 fraimed - the Sophia's (even at the ridiculous 12K price) were evidence that speakers can make a difference. I auditioned them against Allaes and Dynaudio Contour 1.8mkII (which I have in my home with the same system, save that the power amp is the 180 and it's not on fraim).

The allaes may have needed more breaking in, but they were hard on the treble. The Dyns are the opposite. Great treble, but squishy, less defined bass. Mid is great on both. PRaT excellent too.

But the Sophias are like listening to live music. They take you into the performance. I found great delineation of instruments and vocals across a wide range of recordings.

I then took the Sophias home for a week. Just staggering. PRaT so far beyond the other speakers I've heard with this equipment. A clear, wide, deep soundstage. Sheer listening pleasure that went on and on.

Again, the cost is outrageous. So I'm going to try an XPS to see if I get a third of what the Sophias gave.

Scott
Posted on: 25 April 2002 by David Antonelli
Scott,

Maybe the system we heard hadn't warmed up yet. We were there fairly early in the morning and it looked like they weren't ready for us. I can say that by the second song it was swinging, but there was a lot of bass overhang that my girl friend even noticed and there was no sense of being able to follow the instruments or the more subtle rythmical aspects of the music. But it had a good grip on the big picture. Maybe the room wasn't ideal? They reminded me of those big bloated B and W speakers you see in various audio shops.


Vuk,

The blank was my system - a wilson benesch-naim set up which bridges the two seemingly disparate systems (WB-Chord and Naim-Wilson Audio) thus allowing for valid, but not quite quantitative comparisons. The CD player was awful.

dave
Posted on: 25 April 2002 by Phil Barry
I thought the Met Tech was French.

I am surprised by your comments on the Wilsons. I've heard the Watt/Puppies several times at the end of ML electronics. They were fantastic - dynamics, bass, mid, treble,low level detail, everything any audiophile ever wanted. Left me absolutely unmoved, no matter what I've played through them.

Pro Musica is very good; maybe the Sofias are, too.

Phil
Feeling like bashing Wilson and Audiophiles
Posted on: 26 April 2002 by John C
Any system with a mighty Nottingham turntable at the front should sound good. Probably a Moerch tonearm as the spacearm is simplicity itself.

John

LP12 on mana. Pah!
Posted on: 26 April 2002 by David Antonelli
Hi,

Everyone seems to think that the Wilson speakers are great. They just sounded pretty dissapointing (smeared and bloated) next to the Nottingham fronted Chord/Chimeras. I would not have traded my CDS2/52/250/ACT2 for the CDS2/52/500/Sophias. No chance. I would, however, have traded it for the Chord system, but then I would have traded the chord electronics back for naim amplification and gotten my CDS2 back.

I guess I am just used to a) the naim sound and b) the wilson Benesch sound.

Not a bad thing.

Dave

Posted on: 29 April 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Peter,

If you think the ACT2s are too tall then forget Chimeras.

I've heard the Discoveries, ACT1 and ACT2. ACT2s are a class apart from either Discoveries or ACT1s. Visually, the Discoveries are not low visual impact - IMHO they are an ugly speaker, and with the stand they take up just as much floor space as ACT2s.

David
Posted on: 29 April 2002 by David Antonelli
Peter,

The Chimeras are somewhere between the bishop and the ACT 2 in height. The info is on the wilson benesch web site. They aren't really so imposingly tall as very deep, so they would need to be out quite a way from a rear wall. The Act 2, on the other hand, isn't really all that big because it is very slim and from the front looks like a flat panel. It is also really easy to place. If they are still too big, you might compare the discovery and the ACT 1 (get the Tactic driver upgrade). The Discovery has greater transparency and a better tweeter than the ACT1, but deeper base because of its greater cabinet volume. I saw a pair but didn't hear them. I don't like the new WB black and silver look. Their older cheery look is much nicer, I think.

The WB sound can only be described as the best of both worlds, flat and round. Not an ounce of overhang or box coloration, and lightening fast with sledgehammer dynamics and no confusion of sounds. All instruments retain their pruity and identity while working together as a cohesive whole. You could hear a mouse farting and an atom bomb blast on the same volume level without any detectable distortion. Instruments tail off so naturally with the full envelope of the note and tonal textures are as real as anything I've heard. While the Sophias were OK, but even with a 500 behind them they didn't compare to my 250-based ACT 2 system with the same sources in terms of transparency and trebble extension. The 500 gave more bass though than my system.

cheers,

dave
Posted on: 29 April 2002 by M. Brandstetter
nice to see you posting.

Hope you are fine?

Best from germany.

Regards
-mb
Posted on: 29 April 2002 by David Antonelli
Hey Herr MB!

So I finally got my 01 back in November. You were right. It really does show the CDX/XPS a clean set of heals!

Dave
Posted on: 30 April 2002 by Mark Rampling
By the way, at the recent Bristol Show in the UK, WB launched the ACT1 v2 speaker. It's not appeared on their website yet. I understand that it has the WB-spec tweeter from Scanspeak (no ferrofluid, dual magnet), which WB claim is better than the Super Revelator, plus full-Monty Tactic mid-bass and bass units.

This makes the ACT1 v2 very close in specification to the ACT2, only a little shorter. I don't know what this means for the ACT2.

Mark
Posted on: 02 May 2002 by Rico
quote:
Feeling like bashing Wilson and Audiophiles
Phil
Why not have a peice of Chord - far easier to dislike. wink



"nice"

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 02 May 2002 by David Antonelli
Hi,

The sloped top is supposed to cut down interference from the ceiling from what I have read. As for the new tweeter and the ACT1 mkII, WB will probably offer an upgrade package for the ACT 2 to get the new tweeter if it is indeed better, although the chimera seems to have mids and highs very similar to the ACT 2 but has the new tweeter. In the manual for the ACT 2 it says it was designed to offer flexibility for new drivers down the road.

Also, the ACT 2 has very different cabinet volume and porting arrangement from the ACT 1. The Discovery has 4 drivers (two from the isobarik), a new crossover, and the new tweeter, but doesn't get anywhere near the ACT 2 in performance. So in this line, the cabinet size and construction is hugely important as well. But I'd welcome any advances and upgarde packages from wilson benesh if they were indeed "upgrades" and not just sideways steps.

Derek: I got your e-mail, but am in LA now and can't answer my e-mail for some reason. Will check out your system picks when I get back.

Cheers,

Dave