Alternative Novotel report

Posted by: Bob Surgeoner on 20 September 2001

Firstly, we at Neat Acoustics would like to say a big thanks to Naim (and to Doug Graham in particular) for the loan of the excellent Naim gear we used at the Novotel show last week.

Here is our very own Show report;

Scoring is on a scale of 0 to 5, where:

0 = punter didn't enter Neat room
1 = punter entered room but didn't enjoy system
2 = punter unable to tell difference between the recording quality, and the sound coming out of the speakers
3 = punter unable to tell difference between sound coming out of the speakers, and the effects of terrible room acoustics (can be upgraded to 4 if still enjoyed system, but down to 2 if he preferred Naim room)
4 = customer understood above limitations and enjoyed system, but didn't come up and say 'hello'
5 = highly esteemed customer enjoyed system irrespective of above limitations, and admitted his identity.

The results are as follows;

Dev Banerji = 5
Jim Learoyd = 5
Tony Lonorgan = 4
Martin Payne = 2/3/4
Nigel P = 2
Juan Zenuff = 2 (but possibly 1 because of silly name)
Andrew L Weekes = 2
CKB = 1
John Watson = 0

See you all next year!

Bob Surgeoner/Neat Acoustics
null

Posted on: 20 September 2001 by NigelP

Bob,

I laughed my socks off when I saw this. 10 out of 10! Just a little note though - the CD we listened to is one of the best recordings around and sounds fabulous at home and sounded incredible in the Naim demo. Even the folks at Naim thanked me for the demo.
The Neat's disappointed me to be perfectly honest and I did also listen to that rather excellent TT playing through them as well. I believe the software choice was yours in that case? I don't know what was happening with the CDS-II with track 1 but I hope that you told Naim. On Naim's system and two others that I tried it on, it worked fine. I then played it at home again just in case and no issue there either. So, all in all, not a fair demo (as I couldn't listen to like for like with the other demos) and would be interested to know what you consider decent software for next time. Also, you problably would have also noted that I questioned the room - they are bloody big speakers for such a small room. Lastly, I would like to hear them on the end of the 500 as I am sure that they would get a lot more from it. I still maintain, through listening to the same music, that the Naim, PMC and (the surprise) ProAc were better for me.
Regards,

NigelP

Posted on: 20 September 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

quote:
punter unable to tell difference between the recording quality, and the sound coming out of the speakers

I reckon the Thomas Dolby track played on the Roksan (which I'm very familiar with) should have been much better, I demand an 'upgrade' to 3 or 4 status (I did enjoy it!)

Andy.

Posted on: 20 September 2001 by jim learoyd

Nice one Bob.
Just one more score
-1= the punter who strokes his hand down the side of the speakers (Neat Elites) and walks out without saying a word. Very strange, he could have at least touched the £6000 Utimatums!

jim...............

Posted on: 20 September 2001 by Tony L

quote:
4 = customer understood above limitations and enjoyed system, but didn't come up and say 'hello'
Tony Lonorgan = 4

Bob, I had no idea you lurked – I will say hello next year!

Oh, you missed Matthew Robinson, John Channing, Rico, Tim Oldridge and probably MC Joel B – I suspect mostly 4s.

Tony.

Posted on: 20 September 2001 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Juan Zenuff:
Can I help it if I come from Brazil?

The closest "Juan" has ever been to Brazil is the last time he bought Brazil nuts for Christmas.

Reckon he deserves to lose an N.A.P. for being a member of the slightly silly party.

Now, I do admit to being a little disappointed.

I'm not familiar with the Beatles tracks played on the Ultimatums, but as I said in my previous comment I think this was down to the recording quality.

As for the Yello played on the Vitos - there is no doubt that this was one of the better sounds demoed, if a little brash. Someone else reported the Roksan as having this character over the CDS-II, so you could move me up to a 4 on this one, if you like (at least as regards speaker performance). (BTW, was the earth disconnected from the Roksan? If not, could have been the cause of my concerns. Also, were the Vitos bi-amped?).

I sometimes use a Yello track (the Race) on my LP12 to provoke 'Oh-my-God' reactions at somewhere around 3-5 O'Clock on the volume control. Can you remember which tracks you were playing from 'Baby'? I'd love to report a comparison against my own Isobaric(k)s.

Martin

P.S. Can the Ultimatums be run active? Now that would be fascinating.

P.P.S. For anyone looking to try out the CD version of The Race (from The Flag) - forget it. I'm told it's a very pale imitation of the vinyl.

Posted on: 20 September 2001 by vimal

I am in the process of fine tuning an active setup
with the Ultimatums.I will give further details, at a later date.

Posted on: 21 September 2001 by John Channing

quote:
Oh, you missed Matthew Robinson, John Channing, Rico, Tim Oldridge and probably MC Joel B – I suspect mostly 4s

Yep, I was in the room when the Ultimatums where playing and commented (to Matthew Robinson) that I had hoped to hear the Vitos. Without saying a word Bob and his assistant promptly leapt from their chairs and set them up. I was sitting in the front row when they then played "Friday night in San Fransisco", a speedy acoustic guitar duo, and the Yellow album. Although the Roksan sounded a bit harsh and spitty, I thought that it was musically excellent and the Vitos are real contenders for my hard earned money. Which reminds me Bob, I am still waiting for the Vito brochure you promised (by email) months ago!
John

Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Dev B

quote:
Oh, you missed Matthew Robinson, John Channing, Rico, Tim Oldridge and probably MC Joel B – I suspect mostly 4s

Bob,

I heard that Joel Badass Benford (aka 'MC Joel B') and Paul Darwin (aka 'DJ Addams Family') was doing a karaoke rap of Public Enemy's 'Don't believe the hype' in the Naim room at the hifi show.

Dev B (on the wheels of steel)

Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Top Cat

Just a quick word to say that the Petite III/Gravitas are working wonderfully, especially (as I have just found) when I partnered the Crimson 640s with a DNM Preamp. Doh! Another couple of grand vanishes from the rainy-day fund...

I don't think anyone would believe me when I told them how good the Petites can sound with great amps, so I'll just leave it all as an exercise to the forum members. Basically, in a nutshell, those little Petites ROCK!

Hope all is well in Neat-land, maybe catch you at a show sometime (alas, it was just too far away for me...)

John

Posted on: 21 September 2001 by NigelP

Bob,

Which one were you? I hope you also remember that I particularly enjoyed the track "you're a lesbian" - can't think why! When I strolled into that room I was full of expectation. Unfortunately, those Ultimatums were just not making me jump to my feet and say "I'll have some!". Tell me:

Have you tried them on the end of a 500?
Is it possible that a bigger room with the speakers really thumping would have been more impressive?

I came out of the Naim demo thinking how depressing that it is to hear something as good as their demo. I am sure that Allae's are competant but I am convinced that the 500 made the difference.
On the turning up and doing that every year side of things, I admire your patience (with the punters) and the system tuning. Hope to see you again at a show where more justice can be done - only please let's hear them with a 500 giving them some welly!

Regards,

Nigel

Posted on: 22 September 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

quote:
But when one listener feels that the record deck "lost it completely" against the cd player, and another states the complete opposite - on the same system in the same room - it's like I said, bewildering.

I guess it's all part of the unfamilair environement / music / equipment scenario - it would frutrate me though.

FWIW, the fact that I spent any time in the neat room is a massive compliment within the context of the rest of the show. You actually managed music, which is better than 95% of the competition!

Andy.

Posted on: 22 September 2001 by Bob Surgeoner

It's possible that we could have had the use of a NAP500 for the show, but we haven't had enough hands-on experience with one to be sure of the match.

But then, I reckon that NAP135 is a real classic, and I also thought (taking room limitations into account) the system really 'gelled'. It wasn't without flaws, but was extremely musical nonetheless.

We had Martin Colloms, Paul Messenger and Ken Kessler in our room ('Guv!) at various times, all digging it. We must be doing *something* wrong!

We have some opportunities upcoming in the very near future to use the Ultimatum with the NAP500. I'm looking forward to it!

Bigger room - in our dreams! They're like hen's teeth down there.

Bob Surgeoner/Neat Acoustics.

Posted on: 24 September 2001 by NigelP

Bob,

I agree that the 135 is an absolute classic but the 500 makes it look slow by comparison (and that's saying something ). I have never really taken much notice of the 500 and its ability to make music until now when I'm ready to part with the cash. I really do think that this was the difference between the two demos and look forward to hearing those big speakers on the end of one. Just goes to prove the source first theory.

Regards,

Nigel