Changing from Linn to Naim ?.
Posted by: Mike Gundry on 13 October 2002
I would like some advice as to changing my ageing linn LK1 Pre amp and LK2 Power amp (1988). I have very pleased with it over the years and preferred it on a listening test, all those years ago to a Naim off the same sort of spec.
But we are about to move to New Zealand, and it would be probably easier to upgrade in the UK, rather than in NZ. Basically I would be looking to uprade to the new NAC 202 and the NAP 150, as recommended by my local dealer, which he is expecting in November which he quoted at £2400.00.
I'm not really up on any off the Naim products. All I require is an improvement in sound over my existing Linn setup. I have just replaced my Arcam Alpha 5 CD player, with a Densen Beat 400, to which I prefered on a comparison to the Naim CD5 and Rega Planet 2000.
My system compries's off = Linn LP12 Ekos arm& Troika cartridge, Densen Beat 400 Linn LK1, LK2 and Ruark Talisman speakers.
But we are about to move to New Zealand, and it would be probably easier to upgrade in the UK, rather than in NZ. Basically I would be looking to uprade to the new NAC 202 and the NAP 150, as recommended by my local dealer, which he is expecting in November which he quoted at £2400.00.
I'm not really up on any off the Naim products. All I require is an improvement in sound over my existing Linn setup. I have just replaced my Arcam Alpha 5 CD player, with a Densen Beat 400, to which I prefered on a comparison to the Naim CD5 and Rega Planet 2000.
My system compries's off = Linn LP12 Ekos arm& Troika cartridge, Densen Beat 400 Linn LK1, LK2 and Ruark Talisman speakers.
Posted on: 13 October 2002 by Paul Ranson
LK1/LK280 is better than a NAC32-5/HiCAP/NAP250 sort of level. I think your dealer is aiming a little low.
Given the New Zealand thing it may be worth investigating a wider range of options, perhaps Dynavector would be good? Might even be better value in the Antipodes.
Paul
Given the New Zealand thing it may be worth investigating a wider range of options, perhaps Dynavector would be good? Might even be better value in the Antipodes.
Paul
Posted on: 13 October 2002 by rch
Mike,
what a provocation!
Paul,
caught you already!!
what a provocation!
Paul,
caught you already!!
Posted on: 13 October 2002 by Mark Dunn
Hi Paul R. and Nick L.:
In the mid 80's I was using LP12/Valhalla/Ittok/Troika/NAC32-5('K' boards)/HiCAP/NAP250/NACA4/Saras.
I borrowed an LK1/LK280 for a while. The Linn amps weren't contenders in any area.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
In the mid 80's I was using LP12/Valhalla/Ittok/Troika/NAC32-5('K' boards)/HiCAP/NAP250/NACA4/Saras.
I borrowed an LK1/LK280 for a while. The Linn amps weren't contenders in any area.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
Posted on: 13 October 2002 by NaimDropper
He's talking about a LK2, not a LK280, which is a much better amp.
I just switched from my LK1/LK2 combo to a 32.5/Hi/250 and there is a huge difference. Especially when driving 'Briks!
Can't compare them directly to the 202/150 etc. but you'd probably be very satisfied with that. Get a dem and let us know...
David
I just switched from my LK1/LK2 combo to a 32.5/Hi/250 and there is a huge difference. Especially when driving 'Briks!
Can't compare them directly to the 202/150 etc. but you'd probably be very satisfied with that. Get a dem and let us know...
David
Posted on: 14 October 2002 by Paul Ranson
quote:
In the mid 80's I was using LP12/Valhalla/Ittok/Troika/NAC32-5('K' boards)/HiCAP/NAP250/NACA4/Saras.
Well I think I had the same, and then Ekos/NACA5.
quote:
I borrowed an LK1/LK280 for a while.
Me too!
However for me the Linn was better than the Naim, and the next step up in the Naim world was NAC52, at a cost of four or five ex-dem Linns. Not a hard choice to make at the time.
Anyway I think the OP needs to look further up the Naim range than his dealer has suggested. And investigate some other ways, perhaps Densen to match the CDP, or Dynavector for geographical reasons.
Paul
Posted on: 14 October 2002 by davewarehouse
...Try an LK1 with Dirak power supply(worth around £200-250), and an LK280/Spark(around £450).
Basically the pre is almost as good as a Kairn(I have one for sale,having just bought a Kairn...not night and day upgrade but unified remote and one less box!). The power is much much better than the LK2...and a fair bit better than the 280, allthough similar in many ways, It is the same amplifier as such, but is driven by a seperate power supply, with seperate transformers ie dual mono. something which none of the Naim stereo amps(except the NAP500) can offer.
Try not to latch on to your dealers latest is greatest"What Hi-Fi" type attitude, and beware some of Linns newer amps not exactly awesome!
Basically the pre is almost as good as a Kairn(I have one for sale,having just bought a Kairn...not night and day upgrade but unified remote and one less box!). The power is much much better than the LK2...and a fair bit better than the 280, allthough similar in many ways, It is the same amplifier as such, but is driven by a seperate power supply, with seperate transformers ie dual mono. something which none of the Naim stereo amps(except the NAP500) can offer.
Try not to latch on to your dealers latest is greatest"What Hi-Fi" type attitude, and beware some of Linns newer amps not exactly awesome!
Posted on: 15 October 2002 by JRHardee
I swapped my LK-1 (no Dirak) for a 102/Hicap/NAPSC, and the improvement was huge. A few months later, I swapped my 280 (no Spark) for a 250, and the difference was almost as great. People are currently unnloading 102s and 82s for fire sale prices. If you can handle the idea of used equipment, this would be a great time to buy.
Something else to think about is that the keypad of the LK-1 tends to die after 10-15 years, and there aren't likely to be replacement parts available.
Another option: What kind of racks are you using? Getting my system off a first-generation Target rack and onto Mana made as big an improvement as either the pre or the amp upgrade. Getting a good rack under your Linn boxes might be a gratifying way to upgrade while you think about electronics
Something else to think about is that the keypad of the LK-1 tends to die after 10-15 years, and there aren't likely to be replacement parts available.
Another option: What kind of racks are you using? Getting my system off a first-generation Target rack and onto Mana made as big an improvement as either the pre or the amp upgrade. Getting a good rack under your Linn boxes might be a gratifying way to upgrade while you think about electronics
Posted on: 21 October 2002 by Laurie Saunders
For what it is worth, IMHO, I cannot understand why anyone buys Linn amps (or anything else they make) Price for price, their electronics are WAY below Naim standards. Furthermore, their "customer (dis)service" is almost unmatched for its low standard by any other British Hi-Fi company in my experience
Regards
Laurie S
Regards
Laurie S
Posted on: 21 October 2002 by rch
Jean-Christophe,
you should withdraw your comment, this is the Naim forum after all!
you should withdraw your comment, this is the Naim forum after all!
Posted on: 22 October 2002 by Paul Ranson
quote:
For what it is worth, IMHO, I cannot understand why anyone buys Linn amps (or anything else they make)
Perhaps because they prefer them?
quote:
Price for price, their electronics are WAY below Naim standards.
Examples? When I bought a Linn amp in 1990ish the next step up in the Naim world was a NAC52 at a cost of several Linn amps. The Linn (LK1/LK280)was better than 42-5/HiCAP/250. Clearly stuff has moved on, but at least Linn saves you from contemplating the cost of the PSU escalator.
quote:
Furthermore, their "customer (dis)service" is almost unmatched for its low standard by any other British Hi-Fi company in my experience
I can't comment, I've never had a Linn product fail, nor bad service from my dealer.
Paul
Posted on: 22 October 2002 by richard goldsmith
Didn't Naim licence some stuff to be made in NZ that was meant to be sub-standard? At one stage I also think Cambridge and Linn had assembly shops there too. Something to do with avoiding duties.
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Laurie Saunders
Paul... I concede that this is only opinion......as I said, in my opinion I cannot see much merit in much of what Linn has to offer,...their equipment does work of course, but in my opinion, much better performance is available for same or less money....that is my opinion. Clearly some people must like it, presumably, otherwise they would not still be in business. I do concede that their LP12 was revolutionary (no pun intended) at the time it was introduced, as were many of their ideas e.g. on spiking speakers, etc etc. In that sense, the place of Linn in history is assured. I cannot forget however attending many dems at numerous Naim/Linn dealers (dealers in one invariably stocked the other) at around the time that the two companies "parted" and Linn started to introduce its own range of electronics. I had the distinct impression from the dealers I visited that Linn was regarded as being second only to God, and their electronics (which sounded very poor to my ears) must be good since they caried the same badge as the illustrious LP12 (on the LP12....I CAN see (hear) why people like it.....I happen to prefer other turntables. One of the many factors in my NOT choosing an LP12 at the time was my own poor exprience of Linn customer support...I did own some Linn equipment (speakers) at that time )
Thank goodness we live in a free country ...hi-fi purchases area matter of individual taste.Life would be boring if we were all the same
Regarding servicing, I have much experience of Linn's after sales "service"...a large number of colleagues , and myself have had need to call on Linn for help. The treatment by Linn was universally well below what is taken as the "norm" for native manufacturers.You are lucky if your Linn kit has performed such that you have not yet needed Linn's after sales service.If and when you do need their help, I hope you get better treatment than my experience would lead me to expect.
best wishes
Laurie S
Thank goodness we live in a free country ...hi-fi purchases area matter of individual taste.Life would be boring if we were all the same
Regarding servicing, I have much experience of Linn's after sales "service"...a large number of colleagues , and myself have had need to call on Linn for help. The treatment by Linn was universally well below what is taken as the "norm" for native manufacturers.You are lucky if your Linn kit has performed such that you have not yet needed Linn's after sales service.If and when you do need their help, I hope you get better treatment than my experience would lead me to expect.
best wishes
Laurie S
Posted on: 01 February 2003 by Mike Gundry
Well finally I have changed from Linn to Naim, took delivery of my 200 & 202 sounds pretty good straight out the boxes already.
So what do I need now as regards the phono stage for my LP12. Can't quite get my head around all the Naim numbers ie= Flatcap 2 etc. As I am using it just the 200 & 202 without any (power supply)?
My system compries's off = Linn LP12 Ekos arm& Troika cartridge, Densen Beat 400 CDP Yamaha DSP 800 Reoc A3 DVD Rotel tuner and Ruark Talisman speakers.
So what do I need now as regards the phono stage for my LP12. Can't quite get my head around all the Naim numbers ie= Flatcap 2 etc. As I am using it just the 200 & 202 without any (power supply)?
My system compries's off = Linn LP12 Ekos arm& Troika cartridge, Densen Beat 400 CDP Yamaha DSP 800 Reoc A3 DVD Rotel tuner and Ruark Talisman speakers.
Posted on: 01 February 2003 by Willy
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Gundry:
So what do I need now as regards the phono stage for my LP12.
Mike,
Using a similar front end, LP12/Ekos/Klyde. Would suggest a Prefix as the next move. It's a significant improvement. It'll need a power supply, Flatcap/Hicap/Supercap, mine shares a Supercap with a 32.5. With a second hand Hicap you would come in under a grand.
Regards,
Willy.
Posted on: 01 February 2003 by Tuan
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Gundry:
Well finally I have changed from Linn to Naim, took delivery of my 200 & 202 sounds pretty good straight out the boxes already.
So what do I need now as regards the phono stage for my LP12. Can't quite get my head around all the Naim numbers ie= Flatcap 2 etc. As I am using it just the 200 & 202 without any (power supply)?
My system compries's off = Linn LP12 Ekos arm& Troika cartridge, Densen Beat 400 CDP Yamaha DSP 800 Reoc A3 DVD Rotel tuner and Ruark Talisman speakers.
Going from Linn to Naim.... Big difference in the HiFi sound characteristics? I think Linn is as good as Naim (depending what type of sound you like). May I ask what make you change your preference? I am sure that Linn high ends are as good as Naim top-boxes.
Posted on: 01 February 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Willy:
Using a similar front end, LP12/Ekos/Klyde. Would suggest a Prefix as the next move ... It'll need a power supply
Willy,
actually, this is not true with the 202 - it can be powered from socket 6.
A HiCap for the 202 would be the obvious next step.
quote:
mine shares a Supercap with a 32.5.
You must have modified the 32.5 to do this without creating an earth loop?
Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 02 February 2003 by Willy
quote:
Originally posted by Martin Payne:
Willy,
actually, this is not true with the 202 - it can be powered from socket 6.
A HiCap for the 202 would be the obvious next step.quote:
mine shares a Supercap with a 32.5.
You must have modified the 32.5 to do this without creating an earth loop?
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Martin
Not up to speed on th enew models. Obviously this makes a Prefix even greater value!
Never thought about this but I believe you're right and there is physically a loop in there with two snaic's running between the Supercap and 32.5. No discernable problem but I will desolder one of the earths in the 32.5 and see if it sounds better.
Regards,
Willy.
Posted on: 02 February 2003 by Martin Payne
"Never thought about this but I believe you're right and there is physically a loop in there with two snaic's running between the Supercap and 32.5. No discernable problem but I will desolder one of the earths in the 32.5 and see if it sounds better."
Willy,
before you do that, consider carefully what return path the currents powering the prefix will have to take back to the Supercap.
How do you have yoyr 32.5 wired to enable it to power the prefix, too?
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Willy,
before you do that, consider carefully what return path the currents powering the prefix will have to take back to the Supercap.
How do you have yoyr 32.5 wired to enable it to power the prefix, too?
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 03 February 2003 by Willy
quote:
Originally posted by Martin Payne:
Willy,
How do you have yoyr 32.5 wired to enable it to power the prefix, too?
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Martin,
Prefix is connected to bottom left socket on Supercap by it's captive cable.
Signal from 4 pin skt on supercap to tuner skt on 32.5.
Power to 32.5 from top left skt on supercap to right hand skt on 32.5 via a snaic.
Signal from 32.5 to 250 via std cable.
Prefix earth lead to a spare skt on supercap to eliminate RFI.
In this set-up there are two separate earth connections between the supercap and teh 32.5 but that doesn't appear to be a problem. Will (someday) try disconnecting one of these earths inside the 32.5 and see if any improvement results.
Regards,
Willy.