my property chain.

That's house buying in Britain today! Just be glad gazumping seems to have died out.

Bob

Jason
It used to be that once contracts were exchanged there was a limit of 28 days in which to complete. Beyond that it was possible to charge the offending side for the cost of further delay.
However if contracts have NOT been exchanged the only person that can blackmail the guy at the end of the chain is the person who has to exchange contracts with him. If they are prepared to threaten to withdraw he would have to decide what to do. Trouble is that is not in their interests I am sure, so this guy is in a strong position.

regards
GEOFF

Jason

I feel for you, as I'm sure everyone does.

I was in a similar situation when I bought my first flat. I finally got to the end of my rented lease and had to move out myself. My solicitor then managed to get something done (a threat of some sort I guess) and the person at the upper end of the chain moved out into something temporary.

Probably not happily - two sets of moving expenses if nothing else, but there are limits.
Maybe you should go and see your solicitor (especially if it has all been done only by phone/email/fax so far).

Good luck anyway. It will be worth it in the end honest...

Rod

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
That's house buying in Britain today! Just be glad gazumping seems to have died out.

Bob

Britain ? Not got those problems in Scotland. The guy with the problem keeps the problem !

quote:

Originally posted by long-time-dead:
Britain ? Not got those problems in Scotland. The guy with the problem keeps the problem !

Can someone explain why this problem even exists? I mean, where else do you get this bizarre case of "I'll sell you mine IF and WHEN I find something else to buy"? Is it just because English banks have yet to discover bridging finance?

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
That's house buying in Britain today! Just be glad gazumping seems to have died out.

Bob

I was gazumped last month, despite the fact that we've got a sale agreed with a FTB on our flat, our offer was close to asking price, and everything was arranged. Real kick in the guts. Found another place the following weekend, but it's annoying that the whole process is so flakey.

My mother who's 66 today put her property on the market in London about a month ago, and has experienced pure stress since (house prices are falling too of course) innit.


Fritz Von Bloody vultures appear from knowhere as per usual, just like Dennis Thatchers Journo buddies (his famous description of them )

quote:

Originally posted by Mekon:
it's annoying that the whole process is so flakey.

I *still* don't understand why Britain hasn't brought in that law making all property SELLERS have a buyer's pack, and also how solicitors can get away with leaning on their shovels so long.

Even if house prices were normal (ie, take £100k off of all prices to get to what they SHOULD be - ie pre 2001) I'd still be wary of buying right now - ~£600 gambled on solicitors/land search/surveys for some cumb dunt to snipe you to the house you wanted isn't what *I* call a fair gamble.

Good luck with your house purchase though

The whole thing is pathetically run on pure GREED² X GREED²

A buyers' pack produced by the sellers will be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Would you rely on a survey provided by the seller. I know I wouldn't.

Bob

I have experienced the delights of Property dealing in England, Scotland and The Netherlands.

It is crap in the UK for all the reasons given. In Scotland it is pretty good. You either agree a verbal offer and then immedaietly follow it with solicitor's letters which are binding on both parties or you submit a written bid and if it accepted again it is binding.

It is very similar in the Netherlands. All property details are held in authority offices and cannot by law be misrepresented in the sales literature. You go see the house, if you like it you make an offer and if it is accepted, shake hands. That is followed by official documents very quickly BUT you will get a big black mark if you renege on the hand shake BEFORE the letter/contract arrives for signature, and you have to die or something like that to drop out once that document is signed.

The systems in Scotland & The Netherlands work especially well when moving house "in country" since both deals are concluded efficiently and fast. However it is painfull moving house beteween the UK and Scotland. When I and my family did that we had to "gamble" on the house deal in the UK going through as promised and commit to buying our house up-front in Scotland. In the end we had to have a bridging loan on the Scottish house basically because the vulture solicitors involved in the UK sale took for ever to get to contract signing and completeion.

regards
GEOFF

Sounds most Civilised doesn't it ?


Fritz Von I've just had a long chat with my Mother on this very subject (amongst others), no birthday present from her agent though (bunch of Bullshittin³ wankers they are)

Fritz,
I don't know when your mother bought her house, but the odds are on her having a very much appreciated asset today. Even if prices have fallen a little in the short term, huge gains have been made.

The people I have sympathy for are first time buyers.

Gains have been made for first time buyers as they will pay less for the gaff (mortgage type %-wise is their problem), sellers now, still have to obviously pay for a new gaff too, it's the vultures and bullshitters in-between that are the problem, it's all very simple really.


Fritz Von Building Societies have become banks, and customers 'tied up' lose virtually every tim,e, British (maybe not Scottish) finance is a travesty of badly regulated morons , led by a certain Mr Broon.

The vultures and bullshitters have been around for much longer than Gordon Brown. I've been ripped off by them since the very early 1960's.

Where Brown has failed is in letting the situation continue.

When I officially left UK on April 6th 1981, British Radio/TV stations continually bombarded the punters with credit & loan arrangements (as they still do). I've been heavily in debt here in the past but only with a large respectable bank in the form of a loan, and to them only. The afore-mentioned daily bullshittin credit this & credit that (cash), we're (during the rich 80's and are now still fairly rare here, and any kind of official credit requires first (a legal govt check on ones worthyness etc). Today at PM's Question time, Our Tone was asked about affordable rented accomodation for young families, who presently have to live with parents (/more stress etc). Brown's new ? idea has been around for some time rent/mortgage packet. I can only say dicipline is a vital factor (UK has low unemployment in contrast to here & relatively higher wages). A young childless couple here (first house buyers must get a good 20% together themselves )ie 80% mortgage, I just see no other argumant except that what people consider priorities in your world, I & others consider absolute luxurys when in this situation.


Fritz Von Plus when the first kids come along the Social & pre-planned time off etc, etc, is sorted, and not just talked about suddenly when a Chancellor (ie Brown) happily finally becomes a father himself, surely buying houses in the 60's was a snippet if you prioritised, I know of many that well cleaned up as first time buyers, innit ?

Jason

quote:

we have threatened to pull out twice without success

That is an interesting comment.

Forgive me if I've misinterpreted but I assume you mean that in order to try to get what you wanted from the negotiaitons you made a threat to withdraw from the transaction - when in reality you did not really want to withdraw and the threat did not achieve anything so you stayed in the chain?

...... and then you tried it again and got the same result. Were you surprised at that point?

Did anyone advise you about the extent of the chain when you made your offer to purchase? Did you try to stipulate any timing requirement before agreeing the purchase in principle? Did you ask your seller's agents about the extent of the chain?

First time buyers don't normally do that as they have limited previous house buying experience themselves and most seem reluctant to take even their parents' advice!!! Also they don't have an Estate Agent to act for them in the initial negotiations as they have nothing to sell.

I'm sure that there will be firms out there that represent and negotiate for FTBs but I expect very few FTBs retain agent to act for them and it is predominately a selling agents market as it is commission based. I think there is a market here ready to be tapped.

However as a first time buyer (ignoring the timing difficulties of moving out of rented accomodation) you could actually have been in control of the negotiations on the timing of the transaction. Unfortunately you had the problem though that a builder was involved and most builders will not agree a fixed completion date.

This is one of those situations where either someone has to force the issue (and that involves backing up threats with action) or you fall in with the builder's timeframe and complete the transaction on notice after the new build is finished - although that can create other issues such as mortgage offers expiring and search results going past their "sell by" date.

There are few right or wrong answers in most negotiations for house purchases they have their own idiosyncrasies and involve people - the problem is very often the lack of openness (honesty!!)in where the constituent parties are in their own negotiations as the initial objective of the agents seems to be to put the chain in place and then try to make it work.

When you look at it closely the Scottish system although it is different is not actually better and is very frequently more expensive. Bridging can work - but only if you can afford it in financial terms and the risk of not selling. Home Information Packs are tinkering at the edges and create as many problems as answers.

If you need to sell before you can buy how do you avoid the chain? My answer to the problem is............... well perhaps I should try it for myself first!

Chris

My experience over a number of house transaction going back in to the murky past is that each has been more of a rollercoaster ride than the one before, and that includes the variable situations that pertained in each case.

It was back in the mid 60's when we bought our first house, The solicitor was great he did ALL the work himself and explained every step and pitfall in the process. he took that to be part of earning his fee. Of course as each new move ensued over the years we got more sophisticatyed and knowledgable about the process BUT it was a bloody good job we did. To take a prime example the famous "questions before contract" sheet. Hands up those who have had their solicitor offer to fill it in interactively rather han it arriving on your doorstep thru' the post with no guidance on how to answer questions which are quite often couched in semi legal verbage?

Not many I will bet yet this used to be one of the important tasks a solicitor was expected to assist in.

chris.d. thats a good script you just wrote. i wish i had experienced parents to get advice from but my inlaws and own parents both bought their only houses in 1972 for a couple of grand and have never moved since. they can barely remember last week, never mind the 70's. our sellers and ourselves were all under the impression that the house would be built by end of April and it is still going on now. the builders have taken the buyers house in part-ex so they have their money and couldnt give a rats ass. the later on in the process it gets, the harder it is to pull out and start again. it would take just as long and we have all set our sights on the houses we are buying. as 1st time buyers, there are so many hurdles to endure. getting a mortgage was a killer. we had no problems putting 10% deposit down, yet there were very few companies that would loan the money (117k). with the escalating house prices, i fear for the less fortunate ones who dont have a steady secure job but who want to get on the property ladder before things get totally stupid. we are by no means well off but i felt pressured into buying before i was priced out of the market of where i wanted to settle. the only saving grace is a possible redundancy package at the end of the year which will leave me more or less mortgage free for the rest of my life and a drastic career change. anyone who needsan experienced RAF trained aircraft airframe technician and qualified teacher, please get in touch.

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
A buyers' pack produced by the sellers will be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Would you rely on a survey provided by the seller. I know I wouldn't.

Yes, I would, since in any sensible first world country (ie, not this dump) there'd be recourse in law, should the packs have been fudged up. Mind you, even with full surveys it seems you can't sue if the roof falls in or the place blows up due to faulty wiring.

And then there's that useless home builder's guarantee that doesn't cover anything - although it probably might just stretch to guaranteeing you're going to get stung if the house is faulty.

Renting might suck, but it strikes me that buying is a whole can of worms... Mind you, all that said, if I had the money...

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
A buyers' pack produced by the sellers will be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Would you rely on a survey provided by the seller. I know I wouldn't

Well let's introduce the Home Information Pack - it is on it's way!

Actually it is one of those things that can work - a bit like United fans giving the Glazer boys a chance.

The main problem with the HIP is the mortgage lenders buying in to it, but if people would actually use the legislation that gives rights to third parties this would actually becomes a non issue and we could get on with buying / selling houses.

It would be so easy to say to the Seller's surveyor that he/she has a duty of care to the buyer's lender!!!

Incidentally I'm told that my house is worth X as a plot which is more than my mortgage (and my new proposed mortgage) so why do I have to pay a mortgage valuation fee based of the value of the house.

Chris