CDP equivalent to Rega planer 3

Second hand CD3.5 with Flatcap. The FC makes the cdp sweeter sounding and seems to improve the timing a bit.
You should be able to score these two easily enough...if you get really keen later on you can sell the Flattie and buy a used HiCap which is quite a lot better again.
I found that after using my 3.5/FC for a couple of months it was impossible to go back to the naked cdp. Power supplies make a significant difference..

cheers
redeye

So basically, Garth, it boils down to what do you have for breakfast.


You could also give the CD5 a listen. It might be a little less breakfast / stand sensitive.

Herman

PS Why don't you give us one of your great piano posts soon?

I´ve listen EXposure 2010 and I like a lot!Try it and after tell us your notes!

quote:

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but I settled on a CDX, which is the essentially the digital equivalent of the Planar 3 (at only 7 times the price).

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So how does a P25 sound better than a P3 with the same cart, and a CDX blows the P25 away?

quote:

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I will also note that girlie-men who eat sugar-coated American cereals with milk for breakfast tend to favour more sissy stands like Quadraspire

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Aah, that tenuous link between gender and choice of stands again!

Now there is also a link between choice of stands and what you eat for breakfast!

So where is your research to back this one up then, Vuk? Is that how you got your PhD?
(rhetorical question x 2)

If I ever get up for breakfast, I usually go for the full English, and if I am in Scotland, something similar with black pudding.

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on SATURDAY 25 May 2002 at 04:25.]

Thanks to all your suggestions, both audio and dietary! It is quite disconcerting the price differential in attaining similar levels of performance in vinyl versus CD playback. I picked up my Planer 3 used for $350 Canadian. Maybe the answer is to get a really crappy turntable so I won't notice the difference. Hell, even my AR tt I bought at Acme Novelty almost 30 years ago for a hundred bucks puts my CDP to shame.

I may have to wait abit on upgrading the CDP as funds are abit tight as a new father and having had to concentrate on looking after my sweetie the last six months while on bedrest through a very complicated preganancy - which is why no recent postings re. classical piano recording postings Herm and thanks for the kind words mate. I always have to weigh the costs of an equipment upgrade with the musical enjoyment factor of spending similar amounts of money on records, CD's and live performances. Mind you, it would be great to hear what that boxed galaxy set of Art Pepper I just bought really sounds like!

By the way, I usually skip breakfast, which may be why I don't have any "approved" supports for my gear, - I know I know - although I do have a couple of Gitzo tripods Vuk - a 410 and a carbon fibre one although I should probably get some mana sound bases under them to fully realize their potential. On that topic I should post a thread requesting experiences using Ikea Lack tables under components other than tt's and canibalizing them to make a multi shelf stand. From lurking through the archives I beleive Vuk that you constructed A DIY stand with MDF, ballbearings etc?

Thanks again for all the input. Its' very gratifying to receive the input of the forum poobahs regarding my dinky little system.

P.S. When I do manage breakfast it is usually oatmeal with roasted almonds or scrambled eggs and toast. Is their any hope?a

You've done it now!

Wh 's that coming??

Oh and Garth, I'm the 'cretin' of the forum so you'd better ignore me too.

Garth,

In the end,it may just boil down to the fact that you just don't like the sound of cd players.

If this is the case,it might be an idea to just keep the cdp you already own and just use it for those occasions when you only have the cd version of what you want to listen to.

How about going for a P9 or LP12 ? Since you like your current deck,a P9 may be the way forward,but LP12's can be had s/h pretty cheap these days,you don't seem to get that many P9's appearing.

Regards

Chris

And I am a boy bander, but I don't mind that, because in actuality I am beginning to go bold, getting a bit paunchy and not up to much in the Boat Race division.

Anyhoo, its a bit of a moot question to me. My rega PlanAr sounded dull until I fitted a MC (DV) and it came alive.

Although I understand where Linn are coming from when they say you need to sort the deck and arm before the Cart, for me the cart made a fundamental difference to the sound of the deck, so I think its as broad as it is long.

So in conclusion dependant on what cart you have will determine where the deck compares to CDPs.

Vuk:

quote:

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I will also note that girlie-men who eat sugar-coated American cereals with milk for breakfast tend to favour more sissy stands like Quadraspire…

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My cereal cupboard contains no American made product at all, let alone anything that is sugar coated… I even have a box of All-Bran, a product that could successfully be used in the war against terrorism.

What cereal does the one whose stand goes ‘ping’ have? Believe me everything is girlie-man when compared to All-Bran.

Steven:

quote:

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So how does a P25 sound better than a P3 with the same cart, and a CDX blows the P25 away?

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You have made a few references on this forum that imply something is very wrong with your vinyl front end. I am familiar with the P25, and it is a competent turntable, all I can conclude is that:

a) You have not set it up right.

b) Either your cartridge or phono stage is not up to the job.

c) You have stood it on something stupid (QS Ref is fine).

The P25 should at the very worst give your CDX a seriously good run with a half decent record. With a good cartridge and phono stage it should really deliver the goods.

Tony.

The comparisons were indeed undertaken on QS Ref. a good while back, although my own deck is on a Rega wallshelf.

I use Rega's own MM stage and an Elys cart. I know things could be better.

I have probably three options:

1) Sell the P25 and MM stage and have a CD-only system. I am vey tempted to do this.

2) Upgrade the stage and cart, going MC with something by DV.

3) Wait ages until I have the cash for a P9, and get a QS Ref. wallshelf for it.

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

Talking of getting banned, Vuk was the one who spent a three month stretch in the sin bin for making personal attacks on other forum members who didn't share his views, and this included threats.

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

quote:

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I use Rega's own MM stage and an Elys cart.

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IMHO this is the problem. I have never been remotely convinced by the Rega MM carts, and whilst I can’t comment on the Rega phono stage as I have never heard it, it is after all only a budget component.

As for dumping vinyl, well I wouldn’t, its cheaper and sounds better - I have no album or single on both formats that I don’t prefer the vinyl copy. I like the convenience of CD, but when I really want to do some listening the record deck gets switched on. From a financial perspective my two sources are almost exactly the same price – the P9 / MC25FL / Microgroove weighs in at about the same as a CDX, so it is a fair fight.

I get the impression that your musical taste is pretty much mainstream pop stuff through to dance, both of which is easy enough to find on vinyl (especially dance), and the 12” single is mans greatest achievement as far as sound quality goes.

The easiest first step in getting the P25 to work is to go and buy a Dynavector 10x4, I have heard this in a P25 and consider it a good match. It will definitely be miles ahead of the Rega MM, and being high output it will also work into the Rega stage until you can land a better one - by better I mean Microgroove / Stageline / Densen level.

The next option to consider is perhaps to flog the P25 and go Loot fishing for a LP12 or possibly an old Xerxes. You should get £350 or so for the P25, which does actually get you into bargain basement territory for either of the older decks, £500+ would get you a really good ‘un.

Tony.

quote:

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I will also note that girlie-men who eat sugar-coated American cereals with milk for breakfast tend to favour more sissy stands like Quadraspire and the ridiculously-priced Fraim

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It is painfully apparent that you've never had the pleasure of a breakfast consisting of Cocoa Puffs (the canonical chocolate sugar cereal that uses "Sonny" [a fine cartoon spokesanimal in the no-pants tradition] and is the only cereal that openly admits to inducing hyperactivity) drenched with chocolate Yoo-Hoo. Yum. This is what they should have served the U.S. Marines back at Inchon.

Note that Cocoa Puffs are far superior to all of the following:

• Cap'n Crunch with Crunchberries
  
• Cookie Crisp
  
• Cinnamon Mini Buns
  
• Quisp
  
• Count Chocula
  
• Reese's Peanut Butter Puffs
  
• Lucky Charms
  
• Fruity Marshmallow Crispies
  
• Banana Frosted Flakes
  
• Sugar Honey Smacks
  
• Yummy Mummy
  
• Boo Berry
  
• Sir Grapefellow
  
• Baron Von Redberry
  
• Sugar Sprinkled Twinkles
  
• Sugar Jets
  
• Crazy Cow
  
• Strawberry Shortcake
  
• Banana Wackies
  
• Super Sugar Crisp
  

Erik

Chris Brandon said.

"In the end,it may just boil down to the fact that you just don't like the sound of cd players. If this is the case,it might be an idea to just keep the cdp you already own and just use it for those occasions when you only have the cd version of what you want to listen to."

Thanks Chris. This is what I was getting at when I said,

"The tt is just so much more musically involving and has a much greater sense of - for lack of a better word - immediacy. I truly wonder if one can get that kind of reproduction from CD or whether the quality I enjoy so much with vinyl is intrinsically linked to a needle making physical contact? Can one get that same quality from CD or is it more a case - at a certain price point - of equal but different?"

It would be useful if dealers would set up systems with a vinyl and CD source such as a PlanAr 3 and 3.5 FC or whatever so one could directly compare the same recording on Vinyl and CD. I have never seen this at a dealer and suspect that quite a few people would seriously reconsider significant expenditures on CDP's. I will see if I can convince my local Linn dealer - sorry, no one actively promoting Naim in this little seaside colony - to display a CD/TT system. I have a feeling that much of the appeal of vinyl is a result of the physical contact in the playback mechanism which is also, I suspect, responsible for some of its drawbacks.

As it is now, I tend to do what you suggest Chris, concentrate on the vinyl for serious listening sessions and CD for "recreational" listening. The problem is that so much great music is readily available on CD but not on vinyl and the music lover in me recoils at the idea of my musical explorations being limited by the medium of storage - vinyl or CD - as opposed to the musical content.

As far as the future of my planar 3 goes - thanks for the correction Vuk - I have debated whether to go the LP12 route or P9. I sure like the plug and play aspect of the Regas and understand they are less affected by footfalls etc. but doubt I would find one used at a price I would be willing to pay in my neck of the woods whereas LP12's do appear with some regularity for as little as $1500 CDN from time to time. Then again, I may just stay with my planar 3 for the time being, replace my k9 with a Denon cartridge (DL110?) and look at possible rewiring the arm and doing the P3 motor upgrade and put the extra money into music.

Thanks again to all for the informative and entertaining postings.

Cheers,
Garthh

There's no CDP equivalent to P3, or vice versa. If you start thinking in those terms, you're in for a helluvan "upgrade" path.


Nothing beats Corn Pops, except for the fact that they trash your mouth and the milk bilge is undrinkable. Those Corn Flakes with the freeze dried strawberries are quite nice, also.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what do Banana Whackies taste like?

A CDI will be broadly similar in standard to a P3 (not far off a CDX). If you can find a late, low-mileage one you will be good for a few years use, by which time who knows what digital media we will be employing.

Of course real men have toast and marmalade for breakfast.

duncan

"So how does a P25 sound better than a P3 with the same cart, and a CDX blows the P25 away?"

News to me! Put a better cartridge on your deck. The Elys is thin sounding at best. The Exact is much better. You can keep the MM stage.

Come back and tell us what you think. If you sell the TT, you are quite mad and I will be forced to believe everything Vuk has said about you

In as much as it makes any sense to talk about equivalence, my CD3.5/FC is better than my P3/K9. My P3 has had no upgrades and sits on a wall shelf with the same isolation as the CD3.5.

When I had the CD3.5 playing into a Nait 3 I thought that the CD3.5 was marginally worse than the P3/K9. Now with 32.5/HiCap, 3.5/FC, 250 I feel the 3.5 is better than the P3.

BUT - listening to the same recording on vinyl and CD does not even provide a helpful comparison as the sound engineers may have been at work!!!

I am lead to believe however that my humble P3 can be upgraded in all sorts of ways and that would probably then leave the CD3.5/FC behind in terms of performance.

Terry

This equivalent CDP to a P3 is a tricky one. To some there is not a CDP out there that can satisfy like a P3. Apart from a couple of LP12's the only deck I've owned was a P3, & jolly good it was too.

Given that the P3 gave me what I wanted 50% of the time but for the rest of the time the pub, walk, art gallery..whatever beckoned, I would say the equivalent would be the CDX. This also gives me about the same degree of satisfaction.

Of course ones mileage will vary hugely on this. It is very subjective.

Bo

[This message was edited by bob atherton on SUNDAY 26 May 2002 at 22:47.]

I like Bob's method of measuring CD VS Vinyl satisfaction.

I gather that CD's still sound like CD's and Vinyl still sounds like vinyl with either cheap or expensive decks, and while better CDP's will give you better sound it still won't really sound like vinyl. While I don't really like the sound of CD's - at least not through my planet and I haven't really been impressed with "CD sound" even through a CD12 at my dealers' - I love much of the music which is only available through CD. I guess my quest will be to find out for myself what level of CDP I need to listen past the medium (CD) and through to the music, if that makes sense to anyone out there. I can do that sometimes with the planet, especially if I restrict a listening session to just CD's or only listen to vinyl after listening to some CD's - once I start spinning vinyl there is no going back to CD that listening session without being struck be how much more satisfying the vinyl is.

The question, for a vinyl loving music lover like myself on a budget is, do I put money into trying to correct the weaknesses which I see in CD to get an adequate listening experience from all that great music only available on CD, or put the money into building on the strengths of vinyl playback, and in the process increasing the satisfaction-discrepancy between CD and vinyl in my system? It sure would be nice to have a 3.5/FC or HC combo or a lightly used CDi but probably, given the modest funds available to me for upgrades in the near future, I will make some upgrades to my planar 3 or look at putting that money into a used LP12 - Oh no, I see another posting forming. I suspect that a meaningful upgrade from my planet would cost quite abit more than that. Thanks again for all the great comments and insights on this topic. Any additional comments, insights, opinions, or observations would be welcome.

Cheers,
Garth

steven, I went through a similar dilemma in that I had a good tt and good cdp and I decided to get rid of the tt. I had a lp12/ekos/rega exact and a CDX. All through a 82/super/135s. I found that though my vinyl sounded quite good I wasnt buying new albums because of the difficulty involved in finding it. Sure one can buy via mail order or go to places that sell s/h vinyl but it sure isnt as easy as going to the local tower records and getting the latest cd`s. So I decided to eliminate the lp12. I sold my 800 albums, my lp12 and used the funds to upgrade to cds2. Now my cds sound great and I find that I dont miss my lp12 at all. Sure I had difficulty letting go of the lp12 and all my records. There was a great deal of sentimental attachment to my lp12. I had it for 12 years. But now that I made the move, I am satisfied. I did have to start to re-buy some of the albums on cd that I had had on vinyl. But I am slowing replenishing my collection. Even if you dont have the desire to move all the way to a cds 2, you could sell your vinyl and turntable and use the funds towards an xps. I found that paring down to a single format was best for me (though I use my nat 01 as much as my cds2). Just my 2c. david.

Real men eat toast and marmalade for breakfast.

Brilliant, I love thread loops! Remember the thread a while back where Mick and I agreed on Dualits being the best way to toast, bar none? I forget the brand of marmalade he descriped (beaten by fair maidens, wasn't it) - but it was poetic.

There is a certain forum member who's taken the ultimate taost one step further, with a multi-tier decoupled slate stand for his dualit...



Anyone got a Mana level under their Dualit?

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Rico

Real men (like me) make toast made from bread made in breadmaking machines, toast it in a four slot Dualit, not a little two slotter and use Frank Coopers Marmalade.

Frank Coopers Marmalade is simply the best in the world and is made in the sunny glades of Oxford by naked nymphettes who are clad only in black stockings and suspenders with 5" heels. They slowly and seductively remove the orange peel with their teeth and using their young pink lips slowly drop it into a mixture which is slowly stirred and brought to the boil.

After a period of cool down but still warm, it is deposited in a beautiful round jar and sent to places like Swindon for me to nibble at breakfast.

Better than shredded wheat or kellogs.

Well I am now off to bed.

Goodnight

Regards

Mick

How about some thoughts from someone who’s lived with the P25 (Elys into 102/Hi), CD3.5/FC and CDX for a long period (well over a year) of time? Me.

IMHO the P25, in the state above, can convincingly fend off the CD3.5/FC if musical involvement is what you’re after. There are some things the CD combination did better but I just loved the smooth and natural presentation of the P25. Bear in mind that this was my first real experience of quality vinyl, up till then my experience had been limited to a Stereogram and the record player on a Pioneer midi system!

Little did I know that after purchasing said P25 that has I had unwittingly started what was to be know as "The Great Format War!!!" A period in which said forum member started buying copies of vinyl he already had on CD (very expensive) and with new release’s, bought both the vinyl copy and the CD (also very expensive!).

Long-term this is very foolish behaviour. New vinyl is expensive, CD’s are cheap and I had 500 CD’s that were getting the cold shoulder. What I needed was the best of both worlds - enter the CDX. What a machine! I was getting coherent musical performance from CD, natural and flowing but with that bass impact and dynamics (that means really good).

At this stage the CDX was sounding better than the P25, so that would get my vote if I’d been offered either with the equivalent software. I’ve no doubt that the P25 has more to give with a better cartridge and maybe support too but at the end of the day it came down to the availability of the music I enjoyed.

Value for money wise, just for the hardware – my vote goes to the P25 (NZ$3k for the P25 just about get’s you to a level CDX for NZ$8k). But when you take into the availability (past and present) and cost of software personally I’d go with the CDX. After all it’s all about the music isn’t it.

Final thoughts for debate?

Getting a CD player to sound like vinyl is very expensive

And vice versa…

Getting a turntable to sound like a CD player is very expensive

Jay