ikemi vs cdx2 ??
Posted by: ben r on 29 February 2004
hello my first post here, any thoughts on a Linn ikemi vs cdx2 in or out of a naim system etc,thanks, Ben r
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by NigelP
Ben,
I have, in the past, demoed the Ikemi against the CDX-1 and found that there was very little to tell between them. Both are very able machines. Where the CDX really came into its own, however, was when it was hooked up to the XPS power supply. This transformed the CDX into a difference machine which outperformed the Ikemi by a significant margin. I understand that the XPS-2 is even better and I suspect that you will end up with the CDX 2.
Nigel
I have, in the past, demoed the Ikemi against the CDX-1 and found that there was very little to tell between them. Both are very able machines. Where the CDX really came into its own, however, was when it was hooked up to the XPS power supply. This transformed the CDX into a difference machine which outperformed the Ikemi by a significant margin. I understand that the XPS-2 is even better and I suspect that you will end up with the CDX 2.
Nigel
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by HardBop
I actually did this comparison last week at my local dealer using 82/supercap/200 and B&W speakers. The demo confirmed the typical known strengths of both makes - the CDX2 presenting a forward, highly involving sound, with the Ikemi giving more space and depth between instruments.
So for instance playing track 2 off Led Zep 1, introductory acoustic guitar and Robert Plant's vocals sounded sweeter and perhaps more musical on the Linn, but when the band takes off part way in, the NAIM had it in terms of PRAT, just what you would want from the band.
Other recordings popular and jazz broadly confirmed this.
So a dfficult one - both are good machines and I would be hard pushed to choose between. BUT when the XPS is added no contest whatsoever!! It really does take the machine into a different league. Does everything the Ikemi and CDX2 do and more. My problem was not being able to afford CDX2/XPS2, so the dealer also played s/h CDX/XPS which still wipes the floor with CDX2 and Ikemi and if have to say is not really far behind the latest models. Result - I am more than happy to buy CDX/XPS, a truly great combination to replace my now aging Linn Karik.
Hope this helps.
Paul
So for instance playing track 2 off Led Zep 1, introductory acoustic guitar and Robert Plant's vocals sounded sweeter and perhaps more musical on the Linn, but when the band takes off part way in, the NAIM had it in terms of PRAT, just what you would want from the band.
Other recordings popular and jazz broadly confirmed this.
So a dfficult one - both are good machines and I would be hard pushed to choose between. BUT when the XPS is added no contest whatsoever!! It really does take the machine into a different league. Does everything the Ikemi and CDX2 do and more. My problem was not being able to afford CDX2/XPS2, so the dealer also played s/h CDX/XPS which still wipes the floor with CDX2 and Ikemi and if have to say is not really far behind the latest models. Result - I am more than happy to buy CDX/XPS, a truly great combination to replace my now aging Linn Karik.
Hope this helps.
Paul
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by ben r
Hi thanks for the input, here is my situation, I have a linn ikemi and I do like it. I have taken my first plunge into Naim and recently purchased a 202/200/hicap/napsc. I am awaiting my cdx2 to round it off, so far I am very pleased with what I am hearing and I am dying to get the cdx2...so you feel the xps2 is a big improvement...4300 black box yikes!
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by HardBop
Ben,
As I said, the difference in adding the power supply, XPS or XPS2 is in my opinion immense. If you can be patient or obviously if you have the cash then replacing the Ikemi with CDX2 and then getting the XPS2 is I guess the ideal position. Personally, I felt the difference between CDX/XPS and CDX2/XPS2 not to be that significant for me to want to get CDX2 now and wait for the XPS2. Also depends whether you mind mixing olive/new design, I don', its the sound that counts.
Regards
Paul
As I said, the difference in adding the power supply, XPS or XPS2 is in my opinion immense. If you can be patient or obviously if you have the cash then replacing the Ikemi with CDX2 and then getting the XPS2 is I guess the ideal position. Personally, I felt the difference between CDX/XPS and CDX2/XPS2 not to be that significant for me to want to get CDX2 now and wait for the XPS2. Also depends whether you mind mixing olive/new design, I don', its the sound that counts.
Regards
Paul
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by Mr.Tibbs
I moved from a Karik III to an Ikemi, before moving up to a CDX. I'd echo all of the comments above, the Linn machines are very capable musical makers, but I prefer the Naim presentation.
I upgraded my CDX by adding a second hand CDPS (PSU for the original CDS1).- I still owe Alex S a pint for that recommendation. The CDPS is a rare beast, but (as the saying goes) everything comes to those who wait, and the wait is well worth it as they can be had for about half that of a second hand XPS.
This really puts the CDX well ahead of the Ikemi from every angle. I haven't heard the new kit, but I'd imagine the CDX2 on its own will not dissapoint. The XPS2 can wait until funds allow.
Mr Tibbs
I upgraded my CDX by adding a second hand CDPS (PSU for the original CDS1).- I still owe Alex S a pint for that recommendation. The CDPS is a rare beast, but (as the saying goes) everything comes to those who wait, and the wait is well worth it as they can be had for about half that of a second hand XPS.
This really puts the CDX well ahead of the Ikemi from every angle. I haven't heard the new kit, but I'd imagine the CDX2 on its own will not dissapoint. The XPS2 can wait until funds allow.
Mr Tibbs
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by ben r
Hello, again many thanks for the input, it is a big help. It sounds like you have dealers who display the gear so you can hear it there and in your home. Here in the states (I am in Boston Ma area) the distribution of Naim is well in my opinion pretty lousy, we have 1 count em 1 Naim dealer in New England and they only display the series 5 gear. I went from a nait to the series 5 set up then t o the 200/202 set up and heard improvements along the way. My cdx2 should be here tuesday...so you say you can use an older xps with the new cdx2, they work together ? again thanks,Ben r
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by Colin Ackerman
Hi
This is a very difficult one, I too had the same decision to make and decided on the Ikemi.
This is not to say the CDX2 is not a great player, it's just down to what you feel is best.
What was interesting the unit I bought was two years old and much better than the Ikemi I demed.
I wish I had a pound for every time I heard "But the CDX2 sounds great with the XPS". This should not cloud your decision, a componant must be judged on its own merits. Both units can be upgraded, you can add a DAC to the Ikemi.
I really wanted to buy the CDX2 as I already had the 202/200 but the Linn won the day.
Colin
This is a very difficult one, I too had the same decision to make and decided on the Ikemi.
This is not to say the CDX2 is not a great player, it's just down to what you feel is best.
What was interesting the unit I bought was two years old and much better than the Ikemi I demed.
I wish I had a pound for every time I heard "But the CDX2 sounds great with the XPS". This should not cloud your decision, a componant must be judged on its own merits. Both units can be upgraded, you can add a DAC to the Ikemi.
I really wanted to buy the CDX2 as I already had the 202/200 but the Linn won the day.
Colin
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by long-time-dead
I think the fact that you need to spend a SERIOUS amount of cash on the PS to make the difference really clear says it all.
Then the choice would need to be CD12 vs. CDX2/XPS. CD12's can be obtained from Linn dealers at VERY keen prices these days....
Another thing to consider very carefully is the cables used in the dem. Naim like Naim, Ikemi likes Linn Silver.
Make the dem as fair as possible and then decide on the one that you want !
Both are excellent units - enjoy the music that they both make !
Then the choice would need to be CD12 vs. CDX2/XPS. CD12's can be obtained from Linn dealers at VERY keen prices these days....
Another thing to consider very carefully is the cables used in the dem. Naim like Naim, Ikemi likes Linn Silver.
Make the dem as fair as possible and then decide on the one that you want !
Both are excellent units - enjoy the music that they both make !
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by PJT
I did a day long demo earlier in the year with my complete sistem at the dealers!
Simply switching between the two CDPs initially was not much use, with the CDX2 being just a wee bit better. But after extended listening to the CDX2 and being able to listen/enjoy the sound, the switch to the ikemi only lasted a few seconds. Apart from better timing and pace, the ikemi sounded as if the entire output was muffled and mulletish by comparison.
In fact the CDX2 was not that far behing my LP12/Ittock/Rohmann setup.
Simply switching between the two CDPs initially was not much use, with the CDX2 being just a wee bit better. But after extended listening to the CDX2 and being able to listen/enjoy the sound, the switch to the ikemi only lasted a few seconds. Apart from better timing and pace, the ikemi sounded as if the entire output was muffled and mulletish by comparison.
In fact the CDX2 was not that far behing my LP12/Ittock/Rohmann setup.
Posted on: 01 March 2004 by Colin Ackerman
Hi
It's nice to see all the above posts not including the "it blew it away" line and proves the two players are very close in performance.
Colin
It's nice to see all the above posts not including the "it blew it away" line and proves the two players are very close in performance.
Colin
Posted on: 01 March 2004 by ben r
Hi thanks for all the input, it is going to be intersting because the last 2 weeks i have been listening to my ikemi thru the naim 202/200/hi cap and I am supposed to get the cdx2 tomorrow..looking forward to hearing it etc, thanks, Ben
Posted on: 01 March 2004 by desert rat
Ben, please keep us posted on your impressions of cdx2 vs Ikemi. I think many of us would be very interested - I myself moved from an all Linn system (Genki/Kolektor/LK 140/Ninka) to a Naim/Neat system (cdx2/xps2/282-h-cap/250/Neat MFS). I think Linn clearly missed the upgrade trick as once you get to Ikemi/Kairn/2250 the next jump is big in cost terms.
What did you use to partner the Ikemi with?
What did you use to partner the Ikemi with?
Posted on: 01 March 2004 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by Colin Ackerman:
Hi
It's nice to see all the above posts not including the "it blew it away" line and proves the two players are very close in performance.
Right. But they don't sound the same. Listener's priority determines its worth.
And I have to agre with your earlier comment. I had both Ikemi and a bare CDX2 in ( granted non Naim system ), and if I were in the market, I would have probably picked Ikemi. Lacked in resolution, but more fun to listen to than CDX2.
CDX2 clearly exceeded resolution in frequency exteremes and excelled in micro dynamics over Ikemi. But without XPS2, it is short on macro dynamics. Sense of fun, control and ease were missing from a bare CDX2. Which made this player a rather expensive option considering Ikemi's pricing.
[This message was edited by kuma on TUESDAY 02 March 2004 at 07:06.]
Posted on: 01 March 2004 by long-time-dead
[QUOTE] I think Linn clearly missed the upgrade trick as once you get to Ikemi/Kairn/2250 the next jump is big in cost terms.QUOTE]
Next logical step there is another 2250 and some active cards.......
Bit cheaper than cdx2/xps2/282-h-cap/250/Neat MFS although that is one mighty fine system to now have !!
Next logical step there is another 2250 and some active cards.......
Bit cheaper than cdx2/xps2/282-h-cap/250/Neat MFS although that is one mighty fine system to now have !!
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by ben r
Hello in reply to what I use with the ikemi, I currently have a few systems, right now the ikemi is driving my naim 202/200/hicap into a pair of Ninkas and sounds very good,getting my cdx2 today(hopefully) I also have a wakonda/lk100 other electronics include tube gear...vtl 2.5 preamp/st85 apir of radii 3.5 watt single ended amps and a completely rebuilt dynaco st 70..i use the tubes primarily into my Klipschorns other speakers i have are thiel cs 1.6 and a pair of B&W monitors,linn tukans,yes it is a bunch but gives me good ammo to fire with, I am going to try quite a few options,what i have learned is the better the source and electronics the better the sound, which is why i am interested in your comments about the xps2 power supply etc, many thanks, Ben
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Dave J
I also compared an Ikemi with a CDX about 2 years ago (to replace a Karik) and ended up buying the Ikemi but only after it was given an earthing mod.
Quite simply this consists of soldering an earthing lead onto the underside of the Ikemi case and connecting this to the earthing post on the Naim pre-amp. If makes a heck of a difference and is, frankly, utterly essential if you're using Naim amps.
Why don't more dealers know about and undertake this mod?
Dave
Quite simply this consists of soldering an earthing lead onto the underside of the Ikemi case and connecting this to the earthing post on the Naim pre-amp. If makes a heck of a difference and is, frankly, utterly essential if you're using Naim amps.
Why don't more dealers know about and undertake this mod?
Dave
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by desert rat
Ben,
I've heard your intended combo of cdx2/202/200/ Ninka (without hicap though). IMO they work very well together, it generates quite a warm full bodied sound (I think this is the characteristic of the 202 and a bit un-naim like as far as I see). It also generated great height in the sound though that could have been the room acoustics. 282 gives a colder, more detailed analytic sound that you may or may not like.
I used to think the Ninkas were crap until I got the better bases and became an expert Ninka "setter upper". Only if they are set up with pinpoint accuracy after having found the perfect placement do they reward. They are unfairly maligned on this forum simply because they are a pig to get right.
In your setup I felt the bare cdx2 worked rather well. But in my setup 282/hcap/250 when I take out the xps2 it loses sparkle/life and sounds a bit dull. That's my experience anyway! No doubt others will disagree!
Karl
I've heard your intended combo of cdx2/202/200/ Ninka (without hicap though). IMO they work very well together, it generates quite a warm full bodied sound (I think this is the characteristic of the 202 and a bit un-naim like as far as I see). It also generated great height in the sound though that could have been the room acoustics. 282 gives a colder, more detailed analytic sound that you may or may not like.
I used to think the Ninkas were crap until I got the better bases and became an expert Ninka "setter upper". Only if they are set up with pinpoint accuracy after having found the perfect placement do they reward. They are unfairly maligned on this forum simply because they are a pig to get right.
In your setup I felt the bare cdx2 worked rather well. But in my setup 282/hcap/250 when I take out the xps2 it loses sparkle/life and sounds a bit dull. That's my experience anyway! No doubt others will disagree!
Karl
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Edouard
Karl, looks like you almost prefer the way the 202 sounds over the 282! Would you choose the 252 today instead? Have you listened to 252 with the CDX2. Are you thinking of swapping the Hicap with the Supercap? How about the other sources throw the 282?? CDX2+XPS2 is quite an expensive cdplayer! Regards Edouard
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Colin Ackerman
quote:
Originally posted by Dave J:
I also compared an Ikemi with a CDX about 2 years ago (to replace a Karik) and ended up buying the Ikemi but only after it was given an earthing mod.
Quite simply this consists of soldering an earthing lead onto the underside of the Ikemi case and connecting this to the earthing post on the Naim pre-amp. If makes a heck of a difference and is, frankly, utterly essential if you're using Naim amps.
Why don't more dealers know about and undertake this mod?
Dave
Hi Dave
This is very interesting, can you tell us more about the earth mod.
I use a Chord Singature interconect on my Ikemi and this has a screened case whch is earthed at the amp. This interconect also really gets the most out of the Ikemi.
Colin.
[This message was edited by Colin Ackerman on TUESDAY 02 March 2004 at 22:39.]
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by ben r
Hi love the input, great ideas here, forgot to say that i do have a hi cap, so my official naim system is the just arrived cdx2/202/200/hicap/napsc into ninkas....intersting comments on ninkas..I have never had a problem getting them to sound good,have used linn,now naim and many tubed electronics with them...small to medium rooms, they sound very good with choice tube gear, my initial reaction to the cdx2 (listened for about ten minuted so far) is very very nice right out of the box,big and full with a nice presentation, will let burn in and try with other speakers, thanks, Ben
Posted on: 03 March 2004 by desert rat
quote:Karl, looks like you almost prefer the way the 202 sounds over the 282! Would you choose the 252 today instead? Have you listened to 252 with the CDX2. Are you thinking of swapping the Hicap with the Supercap? How about the other sources throw the 282?? CDX2+XPS2 is quite an expensive cdplayer! Regards Edouard
quote:
Hi Edouard,
Admittedly it was not an extensive listen of the 202, but it does have some nice qualities, that don't seem to be apparent with 282. Having said that 282 brings more detail, wider soundstage, more "believability". I haven't heard the 252 - hey I've only just acquired the system I've got!
I want headphone capability so I have an excuse to go for a Supercap as I can use the hicap to power the headline. I'd be curious of people's views on supercap vs one hicap on 282 and how it changes the sound.
On your last point - sorry I haven't heard any other sources with the 282.
Nice to hear Ben that you like your Ninkas and cdx2 sounds exactly like it should in that setup - big, bold and exciting - especially after a Linn system!
Karl
Posted on: 14 March 2004 by ben r
Hello I have had the cdx2 for about 2 weeks and it is very very nice, compared to my ikemi it is close I do prefer the cdx2,but there is a small flaw, the two really cant be totally honestly compared because they use different cables. I tried going rca into my 202 and it wasnt even close,then the cdx2 sounded better,but as Naim would say the rca limits the performance, using din to rca the linn sounded much better and it became closer, 2 very good machines....am adding xps2 power supply and 250 mk2....going broke...but listening t o music,Ben r
Posted on: 14 March 2004 by Colin Ackerman
Hi ben
What RCA cables were you using.
Colin
What RCA cables were you using.
Colin
Posted on: 14 March 2004 by ben r
Hello Colin, to hook up the ikemi to 202 via rca I used some analysis plus, pretty straightforward and simple, I cant say I ahve heard big differences between rcas when used on high level and I have had some expensive ones home, I mean like 2k for a set...where is the news? I found between power/pre non naim of course there are differences, I use a Goldmund between my VTL 2.5 and st85,sounds very good and works well, just my thoughts, thanks,Ben