Arcam Alpha 7's to Naim 5 series

Forget the Cyrus, try the Naim against a more worthy competitor like the Linn Genki/Majik.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

The dealer stocks Linn so I'll try that. He was saying that the Cyrus is better long term prospect because it can be upgraded with a power supply later on. Have you heard the Cyrus? is it not in the same league?

Geoff, always listen to the music you know and enjoy when having a demo. Take a variety of discs. It's your tastes that count. Although the Cyrus has power supply upgrade options you should listen to Linn and others because you may prefer their sound. For future upgrades you can always trade in, or privately sell decent hi fi. Out of the options you've listed I prefer the Naim kit. It's quite an upgrade, but it's also a different (more enjoyable)sound
Noel.

Geoff,

Tom has a good point. Bringing your own music to the demo is very important, and you want to have some discs you like for timbre - voices you think are really special, for instance - but also some discs with really complicated material, where everybody plays different things fast at the same time. Those are the real test of a cdplayer, whether it's still playing music at that point or whether it's just trying to cope with all the data.

A friend of mine purchased an Arcam T82 some time ago, rather than shell out a little more and get a CD5 - and now he finds he can't play big choral stuff because the damn thing can't handle it. We sat listening to Verdi's Quatri Pezzi Sacri: first, quiet part: really nice. Second, fast, loud movement: it's like the entire sistem got shoehorned into a very small box. Really unsettling experience.

This is why most dealers have these nice cocktail combos plinking away on their dem sistems - any player can do that.

Herman

BYO

Geoff, welcome!

I concur with most of what’s been said before. However, I suspect that using only your own discs to dem kit can be misleading in certain situations.

Because you know the music, you’ll be concentrating on what the demmed kit does differently from what you’ve got at home, and not so much what it does well or not so well, i.e. you could be very distracted by the fact that you can hear less or more bass from the recording and overhear whether or not there’s a nice flow to the music.

I’ve not tried this myself, but I could imagine that picking a few discs the dealer has (as long as it’s roughly the type of music you like) and using those first might give you a lot of insight. Then go and do the same kit comparisons again with something you know well.

Thomas

Enjoy the dems. Be prepared for the switch from Arcam to Naim to be a very big difference. In fact Cyrus/Musical Fidelity and Naim will give you very different characters-I'd be surpised if you liked them all!

My experience of Arcam 'house style' is that it is very warm and a bit 'fuzzy' which can make the 'flat earth' sharpness of Naim seem a bit of a shock at first. It should not sound too 'in yer face' (which used to be the case with Cyrus kit a few years ago) but it should be crisp and lively. Naim does not always sound 'nice' but it does seem to connect with the heart of the music.

If you've chosen a system you like I'd really push the dealer to get a home dem before signing the cheque as it can take a while to be sure. Make sure they use Naim cable with the Naim kit or you'll not get anything like a fair test.

I'd also second an audition of Rega kit, good value at this sort of level and I actually prefer Rega's players compared to the cheaper Naim Cd players I've heard.

Bruce

get a home dem before signing the cheque

Indeed. As with the music you use, doing quick comparisons at the dealer's can lead you to "think" more than just listen. Quite often when I've changed things in my room, moved the speakers around, got a new component etc., changes for the better were not always immediately evident. Only when I left "evaluate hifi" mode the following days did I realize how good (or sometimes not good) the music sounded.

I'd thereforse say a weekend is the minimum for a home dem.

Thomas

Thanks for all your advice so far it's been v helpful. If I'm honest I'm looking forward to hearing the Naim kit the most: )

I heard and 8 grand Musical Fidelity set up with Monitor Audio speakers a couple of weeks ago and even though the soundsatage was massive, the sound was 'airy' and it did nothing for me ...in fact it bored me. I may be wrong but I'm expecting the Naim to have a more exitement and to transform my CD collection.

If I can I'll try to get a home demo ...I suppose the other thing to take into consideration is warm up. Could it be a possibility that the other components may sound better on the day because Naim takes much longer to warm up??

Warm up not unique to Naim I think?

Two things to consider, a well-used piece of kit takes a bit to warm up but will not sound too grim after an hour or so but brand new items definitely take weeks to come on song. If your demo is with straight-from-the box equipment be warned!

Bruce

warm up ...and burn in.

When I demoed CD players they were playing initially through a NAIT5 wich sounded awful, lacking life and many of the usual Naim characteristics I'm used to, the amp was fairly new and it happened with each of the CDPs I tried. We swapped in a second hand Nait3 and normal service was resumed.

I took the CD player home for a long weekend and even Mrs S agreed that it sounded good in my own (well run-in sistem).

The CD5, also does some funny things during the burn-in period (several weeks) and can sound awful. It happened to me when I was demonstrating my new toys to my brother in law - he thought it sounded fine but my teeth were grating, the CD5 was having a bad hair day.

Its well run-in now an I'm very happy with it, but then of course there's the possibility of a hi-cap...

[This message was edited by seagull on THURSDAY 27 March 2003 at 11:48.]

One other comment which you may have already agreed with the dealer.

Is he going to demo it on the same speakers as you have at home?

If you can, listen on Mission 752's , especially as it looks like you plan to keep them for a while. If I recall they produce a dry but tight bass which it will be important to test, since the NAIM kit has an ability to dig out the bass content of music very well.

GEOFFP

I think the only way I'd hear them on the Mission 752's is by getting a home demonstration.

My dealer says they're good speakers, but they've been out of production for a while so he said he would set up some other similar Mission speakers as this would give me a good idea of what they sound like.

Are dealers generally ok about home demo's or do they take some persuading? ...I suppose the fact that I'm not spending thousands and thousands may not help my case.

If they're a Naim dealer then it should not be a problem, (if it is let Naim know directly, they pride themselves on the standards of service).

The dealer will probably ask for an imprint of your credit card which can be destroyed on return of the goods (the imprint not the credit card, that only suffers when you buy the kit )

If he is a NAIM dealer I believe he will accept that the final test IS a home demo.

Of course you need to be pretty sure that you will reach for the Cheque book/credit card before requesting the home demo, but given you in that situation AND you don't live 100 miles away you should expect a hoome demo to be no problem.

Also with a Naim dealer it's NOT based on how many thousands you are spending NOW.

If he thinks there is a good chance you are hooked he will realise he has somebody like the rest of us sad cases on his hand who will beat a path to his door periodically as a fix for the dreaded "upgradeitis" and over time will end up spending the thousands you are talking about

GEOFFP

Geoff.

Do you have any possibility to bring your speakers to the dem? I believe that the new missions sound very different from the 750 range. I know your speakers quite well, my father owns a pair and they are very enjoyable.

Bringing them makes your decision a lot easier and after that you can do your home dem.

Good luck

The dealer is roughly 45 miles away, if they were standmounts they'd be no question of me taking them to dealer for the demo.

If they're quite different to the new Missions I'll make the effort and see if they'll fit in my dad's car and take them with me.

Bjorne, does your dad use his 752's with Naim?

No, he doesn't use them with Naim, so I have no idea how they will work with your gear.

If my recollection is correct, the 752 was not a particularly easy speaker to drive. The 752F was significantly superior in many ways, but most of all it wasn't as 'lazy' as the 752. Therefore, if you can take along the 752's it would be beneficial.

The change from Alpha 7 series to Cyrus/Naim/Linn/Rega should bring about significant and worthwhile improvements. In fact, any of the aforementioned should bring about significant improvements over what you're using now, since the 752 is pretty revealing and the alphas are somewhat outclassed by it. Hopefully, the 752 won't be so difficult to drive that it colours things too much one way or the other.

If you anticipate changing your speakers within the next year or two, then I suggest you change the demo to be a system demo, and listen to appropriate speakers that your dealer suggests with the various systems. In particular listen to a fully Naimed system with Naim speakers and Linn with Linn speakers. Naim has a particular way of presenting music, and having the full Naim treatment is an interesting exercise since it gives you a full appreciation of where the Naim approach is taking you.

Finally, on the subject of loans and money. You're spending £2000. This is not an insignificant sum! Although it's is not a huge amount of money in the grand scheme of things, you are potentially one of the most valuable customers a Naim dealer can have. You're at the bottom of the very tall tree, so there is a great deal of potential business coming from you, and over some period of time. For these reasons, customers at the 5-series end of the market very often get just as good service as customers at the higher end. Also, at this level, customers are comparing against non-Naim kit. At higher levels, customers generally listen to the next phase in their upgrade path.

In many ways, the lower end demo is actually more interesting to a sales person because the customer is forming an opinion on the direction they wish to take. The upgrade dem is almost a foregone conclusion since the options are so emphatically obvious sonically that there's little to learn from a sales person's point of view - still fun you understand (especially if the customer brings in interesting music) but for different reasons.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.