Suggestions needed for Wozzeck
Posted by: Todd A on 19 September 2002
I admit I am not into opera. I have tried on several occasions to listen to a number of highly regarded opera composers - Mozart, Verdi, Wagner, and some others - but I have never really been that interested. About a month ago I decided to give Wagner another shot, so I borrowed The Twilight of the Gods from my local library and tried to give it a full listening. I could not. Now I was listening to the Karajan set, and I know that many people don't like Karajan, but it was more the music that I did not care for, not the performance. I was reminded of Oscar Wilde's quip about Wagner, and I thought him too generous. I could not make it through Act I.
That written, I've had one opera lurking in my collection for a while - Bluebeard's Castle. It's the Fricsay set sung in German (bad, I guess) and I like it. I don't spin it much, but it's pretty good. Perhaps I can like opera . . .
Yesterday, I decided to try some other more modern opera and borrowed Alban Berg's Wozzeck, more specifically the 1979 recording led by Dohnanyi. I was stupefied. This work is brilliant, a masterpiece not only of the Second Viennese school but of music generally. The vocal parts using pitched speech rather than singing, the orchestration, the musical passages, hell, even the libretto were all stunningly good. I listened to it straight through without a break. I will probably listen to it again tonight. I am hooked. The sound is amazingly good given that it is early digital, though I find the voices too closely miked and the "soundstage" completely artificial, but this seems to me a fine recording.
But I must hear more. What are some other versions that come highly recommended? Should I go for Abbado or Bohm? Anyone else? Is Dohnanyi close to as good as it gets? And what of Lulu? Is it as good or better? (And is Boulez the one to go for?) Are there any other modern operas that I might find as good. It seems clear to me that I prefer 20th Century opera since I am very comfortable in the idiom(s) and rather enjoy the frequently more dense, complex structures involved. Any help is appreciated.
Posted on: 19 September 2002 by Tony L
quote:
But I must hear more. What are some other versions that come highly recommended? Should I go for Abbado or Bohm?
I've got the Bohm version on DG vinyl, and whilst I have no idea whether it is considered any good by the classical gurus, it was sufficient to place Wozzeck as my fav opera! I landed it for £1.50 second hand expecting to hate it and ended up buying loads of Berg / Schoenberg / Webern...
Tony.
PS I found Berg's follow up opera Lulu to be disapointing in comparison.
Posted on: 19 September 2002 by throbnorth
I can see the point of Berg, but still find it a trial. In the theatre, I've sat through Wozzeck three times, and Lulu just the once. I can appreciate, but not cleave to it. I know that in time, I expect I will come to love them both.
In a way, it reminds me of my own journey towards appreciating opera. I knew that everyone else could not be wrong, and that maybe it required some work on my part, but still .... all that awful squawking and those ridiculous improbable plots. I came to it in the opposite way to you - via a CFP 'Great Duets From Famous Operas' CD, in fact. After repeated listenings, I began to explore the works my favourite lollipops had come from, and before I knew it, I had spent far more money than I could afford on core repertoire, acquired season tickets at ENO, and generally become an opera bore. Twenty years later, it's my favourite music form.
I do admire you for leaping in at the deep end - no Butterfies for you, I see. In which case, I would suggest:
Shostakovich - Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk
Strauss - Salome & Elektra
Britten - Turn of the Screw & Peter Grimes
Poulenc - Dialogues des Carmelites
Above composers perform pretty much to their strengths, except for Strauss - those two operas are nothing like any other Strauss you may have heard - far more angular, dissonant and generally wonderful. The Shostakovich is, in my opinion, the greatest 20th century opera, and given your liking for Berg, the one I would recommend most highly. BTW, if you're looking to Wagner, Parsifal is probably the best starting point. Sumptuous sickly decadence with a few amazing tunes repeated over and over in an almost Andrew Lloyd-Webber fashion [but don't let that put you off]
throb
Posted on: 20 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Is Lulu better than Wozzeck? Not sure - certainly they are very different operas.
I'm still surprised that you cannot find anything out of Mozart, Wagner or Verdi worth listening to. Certainly, the 2 hour first act of Gotterdammerung is a very daunting place to start. I find the prospect daunting almost every time I go see it. One thing I would say, is that personally I find it difficult to listen to almost any opera at home if I haven't seen it either live or on TV, to get a feel for what is supposed to be going on. If you don't have a reasonable opera house within 100 miles, then maybe you should invest in a DVD player.
All the above recommendations are solid, but I think you should try a bit harder before abandoning the 19th Century.
David
Posted on: 20 September 2002 by Tony L
quote:
I'm still surprised that you cannot find anything out of Mozart, Wagner or Verdi worth listening to.
I have always found 20th century classical much more accessible than “true” classical – it is IMHO far easier to make the jump from my normal rock / electronica/ jazz taste to Stockhausen / Webern / Berg than it is to Mozart or Beethoven. I’m not for a minute saying there is less to the latter composers, just that for people like myself (who I guess are actually in the minority) far more effort is required to actually get to like them.
Tony
Posted on: 20 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Tony,
I can see where you are coming from, but Todd has fairly broad-ranging taste in the classical, so should be able to find something in these three composers. I would guess Todd has somewhere between 50 and 100 Beethoven CDs in his collection, so there really should be room for Fidelio as well.
David
Posted on: 20 September 2002 by Wolf
Hi Todd,
I saw Britten's Peter Grimes at LA Opera last year and it is stunning in a recording on Chandos with Langridge in the lead. This year I get to see Lady McBeth of Minsk (hope spelling is right). But another 20thC is King Roger by Szymanowsky. Created in the 20's I believe and quite magical. Again my fav is John Adams' Death of Klinghoffer, by the second CD you are clearly hooked into the dynamics and intensity with beautiful score of rythum and texture (not so much melody) that caries the words. too bad I'll never get to see it played in the US because it's too controversial now.
I agree with the comment that seeing an opera is better than just randomly picking it up and listening. I'm not a Wagner, fan but last year saw Lohengrin and it was quite beautiful on stage.
"my 2 bits worth"
Posted on: 20 September 2002 by Todd A
I will definitely investigate Shostakovich and Prokofiev, and Britten's Turn of the Screw - despite being in English. As luck would have it, there is a positive review of a new verion of the Britten out on Virgin. Poulenc, too, sounds interesting. Szymanowski's King Roger also sounds interesting. I know Rattle recorded it not too long ago and that may be quite good. As for Wozzeck, I think I will hunt down the Abbado recording, and I may buy the Dohnanyi for good measure. I will short-list Ligeti, as well; he's one of my favorite contemporary composers.
On a whim, I decided to borrow another opera from the 20s, and one as different as possible from Berg's. I settled on Janacek's The Cunning Little Vixen under the baton of Mackerras. I enjoyed it immensely. I prefer Wozzeck, but Vixen has that inimitable Janacek sound that I like. I could even handle the fantastic libretto. Perhaps I'll investigate Janacek a little more.
As for buying a DVD player - ugh. I don't like opera - or movies - enough to justify buying a "good" machine (I assume decent sound will cost at least $1000). The last thing I want is to pump low-grade digital garbage through even my second system - which is where it would go. Maybe if the local, third-rate opera house produces something worthwhile I'll go. But this upcoming concert season has already drained my resources too much to venture into opera in the next year.
BTW, I have about 150 Beethoven CDs and nary a copy of Fidelio. Perhaps one day I'll look into the Klemperer set, but that time is in the distant future. I've tried 18th and 19th century opera on and off for years and just don't fancy it. I'm not saying that I will not grow to like some over time - who can resist Mozart for long, anyway - but for now I'll "ease" my way in with more modern works.
Posted on: 23 September 2002 by Todd A
This past weekend I journeyed to my local classical specialist in search of some opera. Upon viewing the selection, I was happy to find all of the titles suggested in this thread, except for the Ligeti. (Looks like a special order is in store.) Alas, all of the opera titles I wanted were at full price: not a good-looking mid- or budget-price set was to be seen. I'll have to ante up to buy the desired titles, I suppose. Before laying down the long green, I perused the used section and what did I find? That beautiful orange box: Abbado's recording of Wozzeck for only $15. I snapped it up knowing that if I did not, someone else would. And upon listening to it I found that I prefer it to the Dohnanyi set in every way. This is what an opera should sound like.
I also found an opera that I did not even know about, by a composer I rather fancy: Erwin Schulhoff's Flammen. I will investigate. And then I think I'll go Russian.
Posted on: 23 September 2002 by throbnorth
Todd, just out of interest, what's wrong with Britten being in English?
throb
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Todd,
Janacek is well worth investigating - still relatively new for me, but the productions of Jenufa, Katya Kabanova and The Makropoulos Case that I have seen in the last couple of years have all been excellent. It's something that I've really only noticed in his operas, but Janacek has a really distinctive style of composing in blocks of sound. I'm certainly looking forward to hearing more of these operas in the future.
Ligeti's Le Grand Macabre has been sitting unlistened on my shelf for over 5 years waiting for the right opportunity. Maybe one to dust off.
David
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by DJH
I second all the Janacek mentioned above. Vec Makropulos is his most accomplished work, IMHO.
Britten's Billy Budd is one of his darkest scores, and is well worth exploring. The original Britten/Pears version retains tremendous impact.
Not my cup of tea, but if you like Wozzeck, you may enjoy Strauss' Elektra and Salome.
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by Todd A
quote:
Originally posted by throbnorth:
Todd, just out of interest, what's wrong with Britten being in English?
throb
Just joking of course. I was inspired by an interview with a composer (Joan Tower, I think) who commented that English speaking audiences complain that they cannot understand all of the words when sung in English but of course make no such comment about singing in other languages.
[This message was edited by Todd Arola on TUESDAY 24 September 2002 at 18:15.]
Posted on: 30 December 2002 by Todd A
I received Leif Segerstam's recent recording of Wozzeck on Naxos as a gift, and I must say that anyone who likes this opera should consider this recording. It is superb. Segerstam's take is definitely a little different than either Dohnanyi or Abbado, and it is worth hearing. Wozzeck himself seems a little more crazed from the start, and the Captain and Doctor are a little more overtly malignant that in either of the other two versions I cited. There are more portions closer to conversational speech than even Dohnanyi's version, which I rather liked. (No dialogue is merely spoken, however.) The singing, overall, is quite fine, though I do prefer Hildegard Behrens as Marie. The sound is good if not great, but at the Naxos price, who cares. No libretto is included, so this is a second choice. Do consider it.
