I don't get it
Posted by: Mike Cole on 25 January 2002
I've tried listening to jazz a few times but I just don't get it. There doesn't seem to be a beat or a melody, just a lot of guys playing around with their instruments ... and they don't seem to be playing the same song. Can someone explain what it is that one is supposed to be listening to. This is not a troll, I am just curious.
Mike
Posted on: 28 January 2002 by John G.
A few years back I went to Jazz Record Mart in Chicago and mentioned that I was interested in getting into Jazz and what they would recommend.
Here's the four they recommended, they really hit the spot and got me hooked.
[This message was edited by John Gilleran on TUESDAY 29 January 2002 at 04:29.]
Posted on: 29 January 2002 by ken c
...I found that you have to find something that shares the musical languages you are familiar with as a jumping off point. exactly my view too...
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 29 January 2002 by Former member
Posted on: 31 January 2002 by Mike Cole
Guys,
Thanks for the suggestions. I may go down to the local used record shop and look at their jazz section. The reason I was listening is because there isn't really any rock music that I like nowadays. I like to listen to modern rock on the radio but would generally never consider paying money for a CD that doesn't really turn me on. I guess I am a hopeless lover of classic rock type music - especially guitar oriented music like Deep Purple,Michael Schenker, Blue Oyster Cult etc. The guitarists in these bands really knew how to craft a lead solo. Nobody really does that type of music nowadays and the guitarists from these bands (that are still alive) don't have that "spark" anymore. So I am now trying to get into different genres of music - especially those that are available on LP. BTW, the local used record shop (actually the only used record shop) here in Orlando does not sell cheap LPs. Generally they start at about $10 and go up from there. Where is everybody getting these $3 LPs :-(
Mike
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by Former member
Tony Lonorgan said:
"The great thing about jazz, is once you have got your foot in the door buying more stuff is pretty easy"
And this sums up what I've been trying to do - find away around my prejudices (typified for me by swishy brushed drums on old standards).
Today I took delivery of an album I remembered liking at the time (early 70's) but never owned: "Journey In Satchidananda" by Alice Coltrane.
It's superb. It slinks/lopes along (though not in a lounge-jazz kind of way) with Phoaroah Sanders sax improvising above Alice's harp arpeggios and the steady drone of a tamboura (Indian four-string drone instrument), plus drums, assorted percussion and upright bass (one track features Charlie Haden).
The first track actually reminds me (and I can't quite put my finger on why) Terry Riley's "Rainbow In Curved Air".
It's on an Impulse re-mastered (20-bit) CD, and 101CD.com has it for £5.99. A bargain, and the door creaks open a little more....
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by Peter Stockwell
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Lees:
Tony Lonorgan said:"The great thing about jazz, is once you have got your foot in the door buying more stuff is pretty easy"
And this sums up what I've been trying to do - find away around my prejudices (typified for me by swishy brushed drums on old standards).
Today I took delivery of an album I remembered liking at the time (early 70's) but never owned: "Journey In Satchidananda" by Alice Coltrane.
It's superb. It slinks/lopes along (though not in a lounge-jazz kind of way) with Phoaroah Sanders sax improvising above Alice's harp arpeggios and the steady drone of a tamboura (Indian four-string drone instrument), plus drums, assorted percussion and upright bass (one track features Charlie Haden).
You know that Pharoah Saunders was in one of the later John Coltrane Bands. You really should check out Coltrane's 'My Favourite Things'.
Peter
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by Former member
I went searching for more Alice Coltrane on Amazon, and kept coming across references to John (hardly surprising I suppose!), so checked out some of his later stuff...
Although it's difficult to tell of such short samples, I'm afraid I was a bit daunted by what I heard.
I think what I need to do is hear some at greater length, so I might trot down to the library and see if they have any I could borrow.
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by Pete
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Lees:
Although it's difficult to tell of such short samples, I'm afraid I was a bit daunted by what I heard.
Fair enough, there's still quite a bit from JC that bounces straight off me. However, "My Favourite Things" is very accessible stuff indeed, and all the things the first post in this thread suggested jazz isn't.
Pete.
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Nick,
If you are looking for some accessible John Coltrane in his later stuff I would either recommend Cresent or A Love Supreme. Cresent is the more accessible record, A Love Supreme is probably Coltrane's greatest record. You heard a bit of ALS when you came round. It is not easy listening or lounge jazz by any means, as Coltrane is clearly going through a cathartic experience on this - depends whether this is what you are looking for. The later classics like Ascension or Interstellar Space are extremely challenging. Not the place to start. In fact you may want to go back further and check out My Favourite Things.
David
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by Former member
David,
"Challenging"....hmmm...yes, but I've not heard the word used as such understatement before!
"My Favourite Things" - now does this involve any "swishy brushed drums on old standards"? If not, I'll try it!
Ta, Nick
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
I did say 'extremely challenging'
"My Favourite Things" is an old standard, but Coltrane gives it a very individual treatment. To give any more away would spoil what is undoubtedly a classic. If you are in doubt you can always borrow it off me.
If swishy drums are a problem, I guess you don't like 'Kind of Blue'?
David
[This message was edited by David Hobbs-Mallyon on TUESDAY 19 March 2002 at 17:05.]
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by Former member
I'll see what the Library's got (have been meaning to join). If they don't then I'll take you up on your offer. Ta!
Kind Of Blue: I'm going to get put even further into the weenie-boy club here. It was quite good - had its' moments. I can sort of see what people are raving about. I intend to persevere with it.
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by woodface
I think Jazz is essentially art as much as it music because of this you have to meet it half way. Another one to try would be Lush Life by JC. I would steer clear of A Love Supreme as it does take some getting, but once got....Overall I think the best place to start would be Ellington, try 'and his mother called him Bill'. If you don't like this then you don't like music!
Posted on: 19 March 2002 by Peter Stockwell
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Lees:
I'll see what the Library's got (have been meaning to join). If they don't then I'll take you up on your offer. Ta!Kind Of Blue: I'm going to get put even further into the weenie-boy club here. It was quite good - had its' moments. I can sort of see what people are raving about. I intend to persevere with it.
KOB weenie boy ?...more like old fartz 
Peter
Posted on: 20 March 2002 by Former member
If you want to give J Coltrane a try, I would recommend either Ballads or With Johnny Hartmann, both on Impulse. The early Prestige sessions are also quite accessible.
Otherwise, I will not recommend Trane to any newcomer to jazz.
The danger is to recommend the "classic" albums which very often are difficult and can turn people off permanently because their ears are not ready.
Hockman.
Posted on: 20 March 2002 by Mike in CO
Although I felt his PBS series "Jazz" left out key details and people, spent way too much time on big bands (and not enough on later works/artists), it also drew my stepfather and a colleague toward jazz, and they are now buying and borrowing music to learn more. It's interesting to see the photos and film clips, and hear from the players who are still alive. It also does a great job of setting the context for some of the "classic" pieces, and showing how players influenced eachother. It can begin to feel a bit like the Wynton Marsalis show, (he's the common thread through it all), but even that is tolerable. Many libraries have either the DVD or VHS version. There's a soundtrack set of CDs also, (5 I think) which might be of interest.
M
Posted on: 20 March 2002 by --duncan--
...I would still say confidently perhaps 15 years ago. Now I love a lot of music that could be called Jazz. I know what you mean by finding swishy drums kinda cheesy, and much soloing still sounds like someone trying to impress the rest of the band rather than communicating with non-Sax players in the audience. There is some great advice in this thread, especially about going to see live bands and approaching John Coltrane with care. I'm still getting there. I can't offer a Road to Damascus experience (I owned 'Kind of Blue' for about ten years before starting to recognise what I had), I just seemed to listen to more and more and grew to like what I heard. Like beer and sex you can't expect to like everything first time. My way in was through Jamaican intrumental R&B, Ska and Reggae. Great party music with a rock-solid beat and no solo longer than 8 bars! Jazz in all be name but music to jump up and jump around to. Trojan LP's 'Blow Mr Hornsman' and 'Shufflin' on Bond Street' are great introductions, but look for Don Drummond, Tommy McCook, Roland Alphonso or Duke Reid and you can't go far wrong. 'Jazz Jamaica' are keeping the flame burning in the UK and are killer live.
Posted on: 20 March 2002 by samo7
they're warming up and tuning the instruments, doing soundchecks etc. until I put on "Jazz at the Pawnshop"...this has it all and is a perfect jumping off point...start slow, test the water and be careful not to dive in to deep...samo
Posted on: 26 March 2002 by Peter Stockwell
universal has a sereis called jazz in Paris, there's some nice recordings from when known, even seminal, jazz performers in this series, Baker, Miles, Grappelli, Peterson, Hines et al. It cost a deresory 8€ per disk to test the waters.
I listened to this one last night:
It's mostly a recording of a 10 piece bans, and has some great arrangements, while Lucky Thompson Saxophone style harks back to the prewar bigbans era. I also bought a Stan Getz at the Salle Pleyel recording (1966) which features Garry Burton and Roy Haynes. Roy Haynes really has a great percussive style on the drums.
btw, these recordings are £8 from amazon.co.uk and €8 from amazon.fr.
Peter
Posted on: 26 March 2002 by Former member
I will invest shortly. Getz looks particularly inviting...
