Naim DC1 Direction

Yes - current production IIRC has a Naim DC1 logo emblazoned on the source-end heat shrink.

Older product should have a white band at source end.

digital pulses are clever they know which way they are going

They know from where they should run (screaming).

Thanks naimers or is that naimees?

How do digital data know which way to go?

May be I should check my Ethernet cable.

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
How do digital data know which way to go?

May be I should check my Ethernet cable.

good marketing ,its poppycock

quote:

Originally posted by rich46:

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
How do digital data know which way to go?

May be I should check my Ethernet cable.

good marketing ,its poppycock

Will there ever be a thread on digital cabling where whatever is commented isn't considered marketing poppycock??!

quote:

Originally posted by rich46:

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
How do digital data know which way to go?

May be I should check my Ethernet cable.

good marketing ,its poppycock

and tell me how this helps marketing or sales. Does Naim mention direction anywhere in promotional lit?

http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-products/type/14 The only reason it's marked is to help performance for those that can actually hear it or not convinced not to. In fact, Naim doesn't even market the direction of the HiLine which is constructed in a way that requires direction from a sheilding standpoint.

If it is marketing it is very bad marketing, because someone like me will deduce that, if a digital cable is directional, there is something profoundly wrong with either it, or the equipment at one or the other ends of it.

No doubt when wireless ethernet replaces cables the golden-eared will hear differences between channels on their routers.

Well, you can't hear direction in tos. Been checking direction in dig cables for 1/4 century. Must be lots of funky kit out there. If direction doesn't make a dif, I fail to see how kit would come into question if you would hear something. It either does or doesn't regardless of kit or quality. Of course lack of goodness will mask any difference but beyond that it's either there or not.

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
How do digital data know which way to go?

The same way analog signals do.

Just because it is 0s and 1s does not mean it has different electrical properties than what comes from your pre to your amp.

quote:

Naim doesn't even market the direction of the HiLine which is constructed in a way that requires direction from a sheilding standpoint.

It does mark the direction though.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
How do digital data know which way to go?

The same way analog signals do.

Just because it is 0s and 1s does not mean it has different electrical properties than what comes from your pre to your amp.

But how does the manufacturer determine which direction to mark their cables?

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:

quote:

Naim doesn't even market the direction of the HiLine which is constructed in a way that requires direction from a sheilding standpoint.

It does mark the direction though.

They mark them all for good reason but they don't use it as 'marketing'.

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
How do digital data know which way to go?

The same way analog signals do.

Just because it is 0s and 1s does not mean it has different electrical properties than what comes from your pre to your amp.

But how does the manufacturer determine which direction to mark their cables?

Same as you or I. If you don't hear it, one less thing to worry about.

quote:

Originally posted by js:

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
How do digital data know which way to go?

The same way analog signals do.

Just because it is 0s and 1s does not mean it has different electrical properties than what comes from your pre to your amp.

But how does the manufacturer determine which direction to mark their cables?

Same as you or I. If you don't hear it, one less thing to worry about.

Never worried, just think it is pseudo science. If it isn't, it should be explained.

Then you are. I guess you don't really have a headache unless you can know the correct cause. Perception matters. It's difficult to impossible to prove most kit is qualitatively better or different from another with measurements that are considered audible, yet here we are. It's amazing how selectively this argument is used. Like gravity, practical proof (if not a technical one) is in the result and not the knowledge of a mechanism.

quote:

Never worried, just think it is pseudo science. If it isn't, it should be explained.

Yes Naim is lying. The have some ultra clandestine mission to fool the world about cable directionality.

This is not new. Every cable Ive ever owned had some arrows on it whether it was speaker cable, analog or digital interconnects.

Like i mentioned above, the cable does not know what the source of the electrons are, and in essence ALL electronic signals are analog in this respect. There are not "digital" particles and "analog" particles.

I am not saying that directionality exists but I trust those who say it does.

I have always chalked it up to the connectors or shielding or something. For example, they make-up a toslink cable and one termination is more suitable (better) for input or output.

I do know that there are huge variations in the polished end of fiber optic cables. Depending on the quality of the cable the "core" can be shifted off-center a great degree before it is rejected.

Assuming that the two ends of a toslink cable are going to be different, it follows that its direction could have an affect. Perhaps it preferable to have the "better" side towards the source, or vice versa.

Same goes for the connector and method of joining to the cable itself.

Just throwing out some options.... I dont know.

-Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Like gravity, practical proof (if not a technical one) is in the result and not the knowledge of a mechanism.

Can you demonstrate in public, under blind conditions, your ability to hear which way round a DC1 cable is with a Naim DAC on one end and a Naim source on the other?

£100 to a charity of your choice if you can, to a standard that would be considered acceptable to a reasonable science journal.

Plagued by uncertainty and doubt after reading this thread I had to get up and check my DC1 just to make sure I had not been enjoying all my music by mistake over the last 8 months... thankfully it's the right way round.

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Like gravity, practical proof (if not a technical one) is in the result and not the knowledge of a mechanism.

Can you demonstrate in public, under blind conditions, your ability to hear which way round a DC1 cable is with a Naim DAC on one end and a Naim source on the other?

£100 to a charity of your choice if you can, to a standard that would be considered acceptable to a reasonable science journal.

Always willing for a bit of fun.

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:
If it is marketing it is very bad marketing, because someone like me will deduce that, if a digital cable is directional, there is something profoundly wrong with either it, or the equipment at one or the other ends of it.

No doubt when wireless ethernet replaces cables the golden-eared will hear differences between channels on their routers.

No offense, but that ain't so far-fetched if you're operating in conjested areas-all things being equal, however, I like ch8 for its warmth

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
How do digital data know which way to go?

The same way analog signals do.

Just because it is 0s and 1s does not mean it has different electrical properties than what comes from your pre to your amp.

But how does the manufacturer determine which direction to mark their cables?

By listening to wire batches for consistency.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Never worried, just think it is pseudo science. If it isn't, it should be explained.

Yes Naim is lying. The have some ultra clandestine mission to fool the world about cable directionality.

This is not new. Every cable Ive ever owned had some arrows on it whether it was speaker cable, analog or digital interconnects.

Like i mentioned above, the cable does not know what the source of the electrons are, and in essence ALL electronic signals are analog in this respect. There are not "digital" particles and "analog" particles.

I am not saying that directionality exists but I trust those who say it does.

I have always chalked it up to the connectors or shielding or something. For example, they make-up a toslink cable and one termination is more suitable (better) for input or output.

I do know that there are huge variations in the polished end of fiber optic cables. Depending on the quality of the cable the "core" can be shifted off-center a great degree before it is rejected.

Assuming that the two ends of a toslink cable are going to be different, it follows that its direction could have an affect. Perhaps it preferable to have the "better" side towards the source, or vice versa.

Same goes for the connector and method of joining to the cable itself.

Just throwing out some options.... I dont know.

-Patrick

Why get defensive over all things Naim? I have been with Naim for longer than I can remember, but I try not to treat it as a religion.

I know about the proof is in the listening and all that cliche. For customers that may be true. But for manufacturers, especially for one as reputable as Naim, they should at least have a theory of what criteria they use. Instead of relying on users' blind faith. Even pure superstition is better than nothing. e.g. "We just mark it one way, and make sure the users always let the system run in that direction for run in consistency". Or there would be some more scientific methods. OR they could install some component on the send or receive end that affects the sound.

Just saying that they listen to each batch of cable and decide sounds utterly unreliable for me. Like another poster wrote I very much doubt if Naim (or any other manufacturer) can demonstrate in public that they can reliably tell whichever direction a cable is going.

Oh and a customer is allowed to be curious without asked to be expelled from the cult i mean clan.

INTERMISSION:

Date: July 01, 1999 03:33 AM
Author: julian vereker
Subject: Supply

Igor

The most difficult problem with cables is getting a consistant supply
- when the rest of the world regards them as a commodity.

The other problem is that we get offered many cables every week and at
first we suggested to the designers that they send a spec first,
interestingly very very few complied, but the flow has continued and
everybody is sure they have discovered some major new advance.

To evaluate a cable it takes some number of hours - measurements need
to be made, samples assembled, listening tests completed,
manufacturers contacted. Who is going to pay for this, no contributor
has ever suggested that they should?

I, personally, will only be interested when someone comes up with a
method of measuring the directionality of cables.

julian

...and...

TopShow ThreadPreviousNext

Date: April 17, 1999 05:33 AM
Author: julian vereker
Subject: direction

Here follows a cut & paste from an earlier post of mine. "I can't tell
you why cables sound different one way round to the other, but I do
know when the 'directionality' happens in manufacture.

It doesn't seem to matter how the bundle (of copper) is drawn, single
direction or mixed direction, but as soon as the insulation is
extruded onto the bundle, the directionality is established. This
means that one can mark the insulation and it will always be the right
way round.

I suspect that the hot plastic insulation anneals the copper in some
way, and this affects the crystaline structure.

But all our attempts, over many years, have failed to find any
measurement to show the directionality or indeed whether one cable
will sound better than another (other than the obvious - resistance,
capacitance and inductance)

Maybe someone out there knows?"

I am not sure about being an ex Physicist, I would have thought 'Once
a Physicist always a Physicist'. However one thing that is often
missed by the 'profesionals' is that audio electronics design is the
most difficult discipline of all - one has to design for 10 octaves
and 130dB at the same time - a huge envelope, and much larger than any
other area of electronics endeavor.

julian
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