Naim streamer...on radar?

quote:

but why wait when there are already alternatives?

because good things come to those that wait, why bother with alternatives? Patience.

I know if I had a Linn Akurate DS I wouldn't use it much because having heard it twice, it didn't appeal at all. Also it uses Ethernet and my house is not suitably wired. The Naim DAC just sounds so much more involving to me and plays music in the exciting way I like it - plus no Ethernet required for the Naim.

I've not heard a Klimax DS, but not really tried to as it is not something I'm ever likely to buy. Linn are a great company and make super products, but I just prefer Naim when it comes to electronics.

The Merdian Sooloos looks a great piece of kit, but I'm not convinced it will be worth the extra over a humble Macintosh. BTW what OS does the Sooloos use?

HDX + NDAC: that's a redundant dac in the HDX for starters, and the disc tray/ripping mech: most of us long term FLAC users already have a perfectly good PC and ripping software for that.

I'm sorry, but you are not going to sell this idea to us guys - just give us have a Naim quality streamer !!

quote:

I'm sorry, but you are not going to sell this idea to us guys

I couldn't sell anything - if there is demand for a streamer then Naim will make one, but UnitiServe/nDAC seems to be that very thing.

quote:

perfectly good PC

Now I know your joking

quote:

Originally posted by Roy Donaldson:
Makes a nice interface.

this is going to be my coffee table/control station

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVD_Lvv4UOI

quote:

Originally posted by kifco:
most of us long term FLAC users already have a perfectly good PC and ripping software for that.

Why the dire need for a streamer? Use your "perfectly good PC" along with one of hundreds of options to export the audio to the Naim DAC.

Which Linn player (or any other mfr for that matter), equals the bare Naim DAC and can be had for $3500 USD?

I would demo that at least for knowledge's sake.

-Patrick

Thanks for taking the trouble to read my posts, as a recent Naim owner, I appreciate it - I thought I was walking into an exclusive club here; uninvited and wearing muddy boots! Oh, by the way, I like the Naim house sound !!

we love dirty boots:-) welcome!

ok, little off topic...
i drove 120km today to hear klimax ds vs akurate ds on klimax linn (pre/amps) and 9000€ linn speaker....

...speakers are not my cup of tea (no bashing, it's always a matter of taste)
klimax pre and amps are really good, not naim style...more open, detailled, relaxed (?), not that engaging we all love.....and yesssss they look so cool;-))....think i could live with this sound....

streamers are really great....akurate is very close to klimax with flac 16/44...i wouldn't pay 10k more for the gap....with highres, the klimax is clear a winner...again, it depends if you're willing to pay so much more...klimax has more colour, more details without being harsh, great soundstage...you could tell in 2sec which streamer plays handel or ella...
very nice add on: internet radio (avro and linn with 320k) :-)

the dealer told me that he sells a lot of pure streamer- the reason is simple he said,,,customers replacing (!) their cdp with a streamer, ripping to nas or pc and love the ease-of-use!

we both agreed that there should be more flac files in the web to buy music legal:-)

aaahhh...nice joke: i wrote to apple why itunes doesn't sell uncompressed files.....they reply: what is that?

have a great weekend and enjoy your music:-)

quote:

.akurate is very close to klimax with flac 16/44.

very disappointing - had hoped you say the klimax was really good.

klimax is really good...but 10k€ gap here with 16/44? nope!

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by kifco:
most of us long term FLAC users already have a perfectly good PC and ripping software for that.

Why the dire need for a streamer? Use your "perfectly good PC" along with one of hundreds of options to export the audio to the Naim DAC.

Which Linn player (or any other mfr for that matter), equals the bare Naim DAC and can be had for $3500 USD?

I would demo that at least for knowledge's sake.

-Patrick

$18,500 for a KDS.

$4,300 for a Naim DAC and PC front-end (fanless, SSD, RME 9632 audio card).

Does anyone really think there is $14,200 difference in sound quality?

Hook

[QUOTE]

Why the dire need for a streamer? Use your "perfectly good PC" along with one of hundreds of options to export the audio to the Naim DAC.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm already doing that, thanks, but the device I'm using hasn't got a glowing green badge on it !!!!

quote:

$18,500 for a KDS.

$4,300 for a Naim DAC and PC front-end (fanless, SSD, RME 9632 audio card).

Does anyone really think there is $14,200 difference in sound quality?

Wrong comparison. KDS is way out of that league. Try a Majik DS thats more equivalent and costs less.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:

quote:

$18,500 for a KDS.

$4,300 for a Naim DAC and PC front-end (fanless, SSD, RME 9632 audio card).

Does anyone really think there is $14,200 difference in sound quality?

Wrong comparison. KDS is way out of that league. Try a Majik DS thats more equivalent and costs less.

In your opinion...

Not heard KDS as said in several posts, but if it's only just a bit better than ADS then I'm even more happy I went for Naim DAC; Mac/hiFace/nDAC is way ahead of ADS IMHO - so suspect Mac/hiFace/nDAC/555PS is as good as gets for me.

Never heard Majik DS; is it better than ADS? I know it's less expensive, but newer so it may be benefit from new design. If MDS is in the same league as nDAC then well done Linn, but it makes ADS pricing seem odd as ADS can't hold a candle to nDAC IMHO: sounds nice, but no cigar.

I'm wondering if UnitiServe improves on Mac/hiFace/nDAC. If you can use UnitiServe as a high quality CD transport it's more attractive

I'm more in tune with the Naim sound than that of Linn (Sondek apart); Linn makes high quality products that are right for some, but not for everybody.

Audition required ........

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In your opinion...

Correct.

Different systems, different musical tastes, different ears.

One says the Naim produts are marvellous, no comparison possible, another says Linn is startlingly good. Vive la difference

I admit to exaggerating in my last post to make a point in response to a post that IMO was making an opposite exageration. The area where the battle lines could be drawn is where the ADS sits.

There are facets to digital audio transfer and D to A that make the comparisons and decision more complex than traditional HiFi. To start with it is about the network and rip / storage configuration and ease of use aswell. ROTF says a wired network is not practical in his houes. I am able to easliy run a wired network for my needs in my house. The Linn solution for a wireless network is a Wireless access point for their boxes. The direct comparison Naim solution is the (n)DAC ( its listed as a DAC now) which, in my case, requires a some device to convert from a normal network plug to S/PDIF (USB is not practical with a NAS) or that i have a source with an S/PDIF out. These are all considerations in the personal choice aswell as the audio performance. Hence the different paths chosen.

I happen to get pleasure from the sound my ADS contributes to my audio in the same way as I did playing CDs via a traditional CDP, but another aspect is as I have remarked Vinyl is my primary listening joy so I looked for any easy solution (for me) for all the CDs gathering dust and found I got mired down in the various Naim boxes each of which was not exactly what I PERSONALLY was looking for.

Being selfish if Naim brought out an equivalent to the Linn DS stratgey I would be very interested but there are an awfull lot of people that seem happy with the plethora of Naim boxes that exist so I am obviously swimming against the tide.

.... Great fun discussing it though.

Geoff

Let's be honest here- sure the nDac is a fine piece but is at as good as a CDS3? CD555? If so then Naim really shot themselves in the foot- a $3500 box which killed their entire CD line.

I briefly demoed the nDac and it is good- bare without PS about in the same pecking order as a CD5X- exactly where it should be considering the price. Add a 555PS and it can beat a bare CDX2- but then again it should at $12K.

Sit down and do the demo and compare the nDac to a CDS3 or CD555. Or the Klimax DS. Then, as the end purchaser only you can make the decision if the additional $ outlay is worth the price. Just don't say that the DAC is on the same level as these other uber players- or that the Uniti whatever is on the same level as the 552.

One thing I can say about my Naim ownership over the years- you get what you pay for- and the more you pay the better you get. You just need to decide how much you are willing to pay and what you will be happy with.

There are no free lunches- some giant killers or great VFM yes- but ultimately a 552 or 555 or fully loaded LP12 will still rule the day. Unfortunately they just cost a boatload of money.

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:
Let's be honest here- sure the nDac is a fine piece but is at as good as a CDS3? CD555? If so then Naim really shot themselves in the foot- a $3500 box which killed their entire CD line.

I briefly demoed the nDac and it is good- bare without PS about in the same pecking order as a CD5X- exactly where it should be considering the price. Add a 555PS and it can beat a bare CDX2- but then again it should at $12K.

Sit down and do the demo and compare the nDac to a CDS3 or CD555. Or the Klimax DS. Then, as the end purchaser only you can make the decision if the additional $ outlay is worth the price. Just don't say that the DAC is on the same level as these other uber players- or that the Uniti whatever is on the same level as the 552.

One thing I can say about my Naim ownership over the years- you get what you pay for- and the more you pay the better you get. You just need to decide how much you are willing to pay and what you will be happy with.

There are no free lunches- some giant killers or great VFM yes- but ultimately a 552 or 555 or fully loaded LP12 will still rule the day. Unfortunately they just cost a boatload of money.

Does the $18,500 KDS sound $5700 better than the $12,800 Naim DAC/555PS with PC front-end?

As far as strategy goes, I think Naim understands that they need to cannibalize their own CD player install base (over time) before others do it for them. I seriously doubt that the DAC will be their only product aimed towards this goal. Some may see the DAC as merely a CD player upgrade (thus turning the player into a transport), but I have to believe they are in the minority.

In general, I agree with your premise that you get what you pay for with Naim. But based on the uplift and leveling effect the DAC has on multiple digital sources, I do believe it is the highest VFM product Naim makes.

Hook

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020

Does the $18,500 KDS sound $5700 better than the $12,800 Naim DAC/555PS with PC front-end?
Hook

Does the 552 sound $15,000 better than the 252?
Go to the main forum and ask that question and see what answers you get.

quote:

Let's be honest here- sure the nDac is a fine piece but is at as good as a CDS3?

Without doubt - with a 555PS I think it's better.

Only had one chance tp compare with CD555 and it certainly held its own.

The best piece of digital kit I've ever bought.

quote:

Does the $18,500 KDS sound $5700 better than the $12,800 Naim DAC/555PS with PC front-end?

Is there any chance Naim would release a dedicated streamer?

Competition with specialized streamer solutions is quite fears, especially with PC/USB front ends. Naim could aim for direct UTP connection, but this path is also increasingly competitive.

With Naim's current Uniti -my first Naim- range they have an unique offer:
Qute: streamer with amp
Serve: streamer with ripping and storage
Uniti: cd, streamer, tuner, amp, etc

This way Naim keenly takes advantage of their broad knowledge, where the specialized competition mostly offers one aspect of the package. side note: I wouldn't be surprised when these products attract a new pond of customers ('lifestyle'), who hopefully move up the ladder sometime.

A dedicated streamer -with of course its own PSU- would fit nicely in the traditional Naim approach/proposition. Seen from a sound, space and user friendliness point of view, time will tell if there's enough margin to stand out from the bunch, a bit higher up the ladder.

2ct, Fred

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020

Does the $18,500 KDS sound $5700 better than the $12,800 Naim DAC/555PS with PC front-end?
Hook

Does the 552 sound $15,000 better than the 252?
Go to the main forum and ask that question and see what answers you get.

$11,750 - and yes.

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020

Does the $18,500 KDS sound $5700 better than the $12,800 Naim DAC/555PS with PC front-end?
Hook

Does the 552 sound $15,000 better than the 252?
Go to the main forum and ask that question and see what answers you get.

Hi Glevethan -

I do understand that when it comes to high-end audio, the cost of getting the last bit of improvement is disproportionately high. But if someone is very passionate about sound quality, and can afford the purchase, then of course the incremental cost of a 552 over a 252 is worth it.

And, assuming it wins on sound quality, the same argument could be made for the KDS versus nDAC/555PS.

Still, I cannot help but wonder how big of a price premium Linn has baked into the KDS precisely because it is an integrated solution. Reminds me of the old sales truism: where there's mystery, there's margin.

Hook

quote:

Still, I cannot help but wonder how big of a price premium Linn has baked into the KDS precisely because it is an integrated solution. Reminds me of the old sales truism: where there's mystery, there's margin.

Hook
Linn are no worse than Naim in that respect. Look at the CD555 for example which is often equated to the KDS by the reviewers' in audio performance terms. That has a sky high price tag on it.

As for the mystery factor, if Linn had that in their minds would they have brought out a whole range of DS boxes using the same principle at much lower pricess. As Gregg has reported the ADS now, is said to be akin to the performance of the first version of the Klimax (before the Dynamix PS upgrade) at a very reasonable price as we have been discussing here at length. Below the ADS there are the Majik and Sneaky so you could say Linn has a set of DS boxes equivalents to the set of CDP's that Naim offers. Doesn't stop people from buying CD555's just like KDS's

BTW is guess you have expensive fun here quite regularly?





I used to visit Minneapolis on business. Always tried to make time for a 'shop' in the Mall of America.

regards
Geoff

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020:
Hi Glevethan -
I do understand that when it comes to high-end audio, the cost of getting the last bit of improvement is disproportionately high. But if someone is very passionate about sound quality, and can afford the purchase, then of course the incremental cost of a 552 over a 252 is worth it.

And, assuming it wins on sound quality, the same argument could be made for the KDS versus nDAC/555PS.

Still, I cannot help but wonder how big of a price premium Linn has baked into the KDS precisely because it is an integrated solution. Reminds me of the old sales truism: where there's mystery, there's margin.

Hook

Hook

Then why not say that about the CD555 at $30k? Fully loaded LP12 at $25k?

Don't just limit your indignity to the KDS at $18,500

Someone who uses a Chordette or Benchmark or Lavry might take odds at your nDac/555PS "integrated solution" at $12k and say "where there's mystery, there's margin".

Unfortunately in high end audio things often do not make sense when speaking about price. I still do not know which people are purchasing $100,000 speakers!