Naim streamer...on radar?

Geoff
I guess you beat me to the punch!
Gregg

OOPs,just got in first...sorry Gregg. We are clearly on the same wavelength.

We must STOP doing this!!....

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020:

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:
Let's be honest here- sure the nDac is a fine piece but is at as good as a CDS3? CD555? If so then Naim really shot themselves in the foot- a $3500 box which killed their entire CD line.

I briefly demoed the nDac and it is good- bare without PS about in the same pecking order as a CD5X- exactly where it should be considering the price. Add a 555PS and it can beat a bare CDX2- but then again it should at $12K.

Sit down and do the demo and compare the nDac to a CDS3 or CD555. Or the Klimax DS. Then, as the end purchaser only you can make the decision if the additional $ outlay is worth the price. Just don't say that the DAC is on the same level as these other uber players- or that the Uniti whatever is on the same level as the 552.

One thing I can say about my Naim ownership over the years- you get what you pay for- and the more you pay the better you get. You just need to decide how much you are willing to pay and what you will be happy with.

There are no free lunches- some giant killers or great VFM yes- but ultimately a 552 or 555 or fully loaded LP12 will still rule the day. Unfortunately they just cost a boatload of money.

Does the $18,500 KDS sound $5700 better than the $12,800 Naim DAC/555PS with PC front-end?

As far as strategy goes, I think Naim understands that they need to cannibalize their own CD player install base (over time) before others do it for them. I seriously doubt that the DAC will be their only product aimed towards this goal. Some may see the DAC as merely a CD player upgrade (thus turning the player into a transport), but I have to believe they are in the minority.

In general, I agree with your premise that you get what you pay for with Naim. But based on the uplift and leveling effect the DAC has on multiple digital sources, I do believe it is the highest VFM product Naim makes.

Hook

Agreed, very good points there!

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:
[QUOTE]...
As for the mystery factor, if Linn had that in their minds would they have brought out a whole range of DS boxes using the same principle at much lower prices....

Hi Geoff -

You make a good point about Linn offering more affordable alternatives. If a KDS demo does not make clear why it is premium priced, then the ADS is certainly a viable option for those trying to save space. Never meant to imply otherwise.

Unfortunately, without flying somewhere, and without imposing on some unsuspecting Naim/Linn dealer, it will be impossible for me to ever hear the difference between the KDS and nDAC/555PS. I still think that this is a valid comparison since, after all, it represents the best sound quality for streaming that each company has to offer. Perhaps if I could hear them side by side (or if I heard from others who has done so), then the Linn value prop would be less of a mystery to me. IMHO, the $6700 price difference should equate to a very significant step up in performance.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:
[QUOTE]...
BTW is guess you have expensive fun here quite regularly?
...
Geoff

Not if I can help it! Never understood the attraction of the place, and yet it somehow continues to set attendance records every year. There is now even a television show called "Mall Cops"! But yes, Mrs. H does talk me into going down there every once in a while. Next time I might finally give into the temptation to run into the Bose store and yell "It's crap!".

Hook

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:
...
Hook

Then why not say that about the CD555 at $30k? Fully loaded LP12 at $25k?

Don't just limit your indignity to the KDS at $18,500

Someone who uses a Chordette or Benchmark or Lavry might take odds at your nDac/555PS "integrated solution" at $12k and say "where there's mystery, there's margin".

Unfortunately in high end audio things often do not make sense when speaking about price. I still do not know which people are purchasing $100,000 speakers!

Hi Glevethan -

Mrs. H just looked over my shoulder, and after reading your post, said in a very monotone voice "Obviously, if Glevethan knew you better, he would realize that there is no limit to your indiginity." Guess I need to turn down the curmudgeon meter a notch or two!

You do site some classic examples of where we are more than happy to pay a significant price premium for incremental audio quality. And I am certainly not trying to portray myself as above the fray. If there were a setup guru in town, I would be very tempted to take out a second mortgage and buy a full-spec LP12!

So I will stop picking on the KDS. You are right, it is only one among many examples. And life is too short to be indignant...all of the time.

Hook

[QUOTE] Is there any chance Naim would release a dedicated streamer?
________________________________________________

Thank you, Fred, for pulling this thread back to the OP.

quote:

Thank you, Fred, for pulling this thread back to the OP.

Not sure what you mean...I reckon you have been lucky it has stayed as much on track as it has. You will find some threads will really wander off.

Thanks, Geoff, for your reply and I understand what you are saying, but I felt that when it moved into Klimax DS territory that it had rather lost the point.

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020:
.... it will be impossible for me to ever hear the difference between the KDS and nDAC/555PS. I still think that this is a valid comparison since, after all, it represents the best sound quality for streaming that each company has to offer. Perhaps if I could hear them side by side (or if I heard from others who has done so), then the Linn value prop would be less of a mystery to me. IMHO, the $6700 price difference should equate to a very significant step up in performance.

Hook

This is where I found myself - I went in to listen to a DAC, and came out with some changed ideas. Sometimes it's best not to have too much choice.

quote:

Originally posted by kifco:
Thanks, Geoff, for your reply and I understand what you are saying, but I felt that when it moved into Klimax DS territory that it had rather lost the point.

Hi just a gentle nudge. The OPs opening e-mail says:

quote:

do we know (or guess) whether naim will ever build a klimax ds like system in near future?

....

Any claims ( from a few folks) that the LINN DSs are very good was bound to bring naim kit comparisons.

Geoff

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
I don't get this Linn obssession.

...says the owner of mybriks.com and ..umm... a pair of Briks.

Oh, the irony

quote:

Originally posted by kifco:
Is there any chance Naim would release a dedicated streamer?

quote:

Thank you, Fred, for pulling this thread back to the OP.

I clearly answered the OP's question right out of the gates.

the answer is YES, and it is available NOW!

If you are asking for a single box streamer with an internal DAC (and without ANY other accoutrement) NO ONE knows.

Keep in mind that the Linn DS players ARE NOT streamers. They are Networked Media Players.

The Naim Streamer is not a pure streamer as it includes a ripping drive.

I would take a wild guess and say NO, Naim will not release a ethernet only streamer with internal DAC. Why would they release a product that cannot utilize the new DAC? The two box Streamer/DAC seems ideal (for me) and the road they are traveling down.

This DS style streamer from Naim seems as likely as a external DAC from Linn.

If i had to venture a guess for future products in this line, based on what has happened so far, would be upgraded/Reference (if possible) versions of the DAC and Uniserve (maybe without ripping drive?)

I cannot imagine Naim would release any product that wouldn't fit with the existing line. I would expect any new Naim DAC to work with all of the current sources Naim sells. Also i would expect any new streamer to work with the original Naim DAC.

If you want a one box, ethernet only, streamer with an internal DAC, you might need to look elsewhere. It is no different than wanting a turntable from Naim (not likely).

Luckily you can do either one box from Linn or two boxes from Naim (with numerous other options the Linn doesn't provide).

The pricing comparison's are a moot point, apples and oranges.... Demo both, buy the one you like and can afford.

-Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:
...says the owner of mybriks.com and ..umm... a pair of Briks.

Oh, the irony

Cuz, there's nothing comparable in *fun* department which makes them unique.

The Linn DS stuff did not give me a *lights on* moment for sure.

The HDX-SSD is an ethernet-based one-box streamer/DAC. A very nice one. And you can upgrade it by adding boxes - no need to buy a completely new all-in-one box.

Without knowing if it actually works - but if you use the UPnP-server in your NAS the UnitiQute would be another one-box solution. But please dont tell the gapless people I said so :-)

[QUOTE] Hi just a gentle nudge.

_______________________________________________

I stand corrected, it had been a long day!

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:
...says the owner of mybriks.com and ..umm... a pair of Briks.

Oh, the irony

Cuz, there's nothing comparable in *fun* department which makes them unique.

The Linn DS stuff did not give me a *lights on* moment for sure.

I know I know - just yanking yer chain, kuma!

jlarsson - could you please translate the second paragraph of your post into English - ta

sorry - seem to have lost my encryption key ... no, it was was probably just a stupid thought and my system (HDX+NAS) works so well now that I am not about to start messing around with it to try new ideas :-)

quote:

jlarsson - could you please translate the second paragraph of your post into English - ta

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

I would take a wild guess and say NO, Naim will not release a ethernet only streamer with internal DAC. Why would they release a product that cannot utilize the new DAC? The two box Streamer/DAC seems ideal (for me) and the road they are traveling down.

Ideal for you, maybe. But its quite a high cost entry point.

Why not follow on the logic demonstrated on the Unity range?

Uniti -- has everything

UnitiQute -- chop the CD drive off

"UnitiStream" -- chop the CD drive off, chop off the power amp stage, leaving fixed level line output.

Thus leaving a Unitiqute for people who want to drop it into existing hifi systems. It seems a logical progression to me.

UnitiServe would drop quite nicely into my supernait/allae system....

Been testing our first example of it at work via Supernait &/or /202/200...so far we are super impressed.

iPod control via the n-serve application could only be bettered by offering volume control of the amp !!

quote:

The Linn DS stuff did not give me a *lights on* moment for sure.

Fair enough Kuma.

Just as amatter of interest did you hear the DS thru' a 500?

Geoff

As we always say on this forum-to each his own-people hear different things.

With that said, not withstanding Kuma's experience, many people who have heard the DS's at the same dealer through the same systems have come away quite impressed. I also believe sales of DS units at said dealer are good.

Geoff,

No 500 at my dealer. It was with a 552/300.

Gregg,

It's good that it has been a good seller for them.

Guess I could blame on those awful Linn Akurate speakers but then HDX sounded just fine and showed the difference in presentation enough for me know which one I preferred.

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:
"UnitiStream" -- chop the CD drive off, chop off the power amp stage, leaving fixed level line output.

Thus leaving a Unitiqute for people who want to drop it into existing hifi systems. It seems a logical progression to me.

It could happen. this will inevitably be the trigger point for numerous postings here and elsewhere along the lines of "They want HOW MUCH?!!!!! for a box full of virtually nothing". So as usual they will be damned if they don't and damned if they do. But as you say, the proposal is entirely logical in itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Harry K:

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:
"UnitiStream" -- chop the CD drive off, chop off the power amp stage, leaving fixed level line output.

Thus leaving a Unitiqute for people who want to drop it into existing hifi systems. It seems a logical progression to me.

It could happen. this will inevitably be the trigger point for numerous postings here and elsewhere along the lines of "They want HOW MUCH?!!!!! for a box full of virtually nothing". So as usual they will be damned if they don't and damned if they do. But as you say, the proposal is entirely logical in itself.

I can't see a "UnitiStream" selling for less than the price of a UnitiQute.