The new Naim DAC

Interesting - look forward to hearing one. Any idea of the price ?

James

Great news, I am sure this will be of interest to a lot of people. It looks like the guys at Naim have really got the bit between their teeth this year - bloody well done

I look forward to hearing the first reports and seeing the first tests, and listening to one in real life.

Any bets that it won't be long before the first b*tching questions/comments arrive - too late, too much, too small, too big, too black etc etc and thats before they've seen or heard it in the flesh or got the actual price

Barrie

well IMHO CDPs are old and by default, on there way out. naim need to keep the R&D forward thinking and what there doing is great. it a proactive stance on what will happen and needs to.

quote:

Originally posted by r-tee:
well IMHO CDPs are old and by default, on there way out. naim need to keep the R&D forward thinking and what there doing is great. it a proactive stance on what will happen and needs to.

This is why I sold my CD5 last year and now just use my MacBook as a media hub. For music and podcasts mainly, but occasionally internet radio although that can be a little flaky.

This new DAC does stir things up a bit I will have to think very carefully about my next purchase...

Supernait - Uniti - DAC

All three could be used in my system, just a case of which way to go.

Great work Naim - as it opens things up to just how you want your system to be. From a quality all in one, through to a midrange powerful integrated to a reference digi system around the new DAC.

Superb !

Any idea of cost anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by Yetizone:

quote:

Originally posted by r-tee:
well IMHO CDPs are old and by default, on there way out. naim need to keep the R&D forward thinking and what there doing is great. it a proactive stance on what will happen and needs to.

This is why I sold my CD5 last year and now just use my MacBook as a media hub. For music and podcasts mainly, but occasionally internet radio although that can be a little flaky.

This new DAC does stir things up a bit I will have to think very carefully about my next purchase...

Supernait - Uniti - DAC

All three could be used in my system, just a case of which way to go.

Great work Naim - as it opens things up to just how you want your system to be. From a quality all in one, through to a midrange powerful integrated to a reference digi system around the new DAC.

Superb !

Any idea of cost anyone?

yeti, i got rid of all my stuff in 07 and have slowly built the following system (with a few duff attempts in between) and am very happy with the way it sounds

supernait/neat momentum 3i/target R2 stands/NACA5/VDH optical/airport express/netgear SC101T NAS & DG834N router/dedicated tecra M9 laptop/itunes.

I reckon the "Naimless DAC" discussion became went well beyond query and into a "Naimless DAC" group - but live and let live as they say.

If your supposition ref the furore is correct then great - it could also have been the natural follow on from the move towards digital that Naim had already embarked on and is part of getting a product offer to appeal to a broad customer range - we will never know, but you are correct in assuming that Naim listen to their existing customers as well as focus on their new ones - great Brand isn't it

quote:

I would have preferred the DAC to be in a half reference box allowing, say, a Hi-Cap to be used as a PSU and keep the shelf count to one.

....A genuine question, shouldn't PSU be kept separate, or doesn't that matter with DAC's

Barrie

My system today:SC,SN + SB (SqueezeboxDuett)called the "Triple S"
My System in future: SC,SN,SB+SD (Superdac,new Naim DAC )called the "Quadro S".

Thanks for the clarification on the PSU, the opening comment in this thread states that it has an internal PSU, so the additional PSU only will lift the output side.
But ref my origonal question is placing the PSU next to the DAC different than placing it next to an amp for example, which I seem to have read somewhere is not a good idea

Cheers

Barrie

Interesting question would be also, if the new Dac is better than the built in of the SN.
Looking at the price, i think so.

if it is can I please upgrade the one in the SN because I really like my one box solution.

how was the mac feeding the dac ?..usb ? coax or over optical ?

has someone any idea ?

i guess itunes was used to play the files ?..in which quality ?

but that´s maybe to early questions anyway...the dac might not be totaly ready now...

The feed from the HDX was coax as far as I could tell. Don't know about the Mac.

Price was given as circa £2k. Also I didn't point out that it was stressed that this was a very pre-production prototype, which may account for the internal power supply not being used - it may not have had one fitted! Who knows.

I can only reiterate that the sound was pretty superb through both sources.

Hopefully there will be at least 4 inputs on the finished unit.

This looks a superb unit to me - hope the sound quality matches the function - I'm sure it will; Rupert says it does and I trust his judgement. At last it becomes worth thinking about Computer Audio - if this can take a direct feed from the digital files on an iPod then I'm very interested, if it can't then I'm still very interested as there is always the iTransport from Wadia.

iPod with Naim DAC for main system and iPod with Uniti for Office system - sounds too good to be true - if they'd asked what products I wanted to see from them then they could not have got it more right - perhaps the marketing/R&D guys at Naim are mind readers. No hard disks required - solid state music: excellent.

ATB Rotf

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
Well Barrie, I wonder how much of this was brought on by the furore caused last year by a certain alternative DAC. Maybe, just maybe, it has caused Naim to rather focus more acutely rather than keep saying we are thinking about it.

Very little indeed. Naim product development tends to be long-term and measured. We cannot respond to every fashion but we would be foolish not to keep on top of how the market appears to be changing.

The NaimNet work was primarily intended for the Custom Install market. Lessons learnt there spilled over into the HDX - a product which can stand in either camp. Work with Bentley has given us experience with new hardware and techniques. These, Naim R&D and additional highly expert personnel promise some fascinating future products.

A DAC project was not of particular interest when it was just (as requested) "stick the DAC from a CDS3 in a Stageline box". Experience and opportunity (we HAVE produced quite a few products lately) have recently come together, allowing us to produce something which we think is worthwhile.

The Lavry "furore" has been just the most vocal manifestation of a general market trend - please keep this in proportion.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
I would have preferred the DAC to be in a half reference box allowing, say, a Hi-Cap to be used as a PSU and keep the shelf count to one.

Allen, actually IMO this makes more sense as I see it and well thought out by Naim. I had commented on this on another thread and JS and I had been discussing this a couple of weeks ago about how Naim would go with a DAC, if developed, and why the HDX also had a "dig out."

We haven't gotten the specs, but it would appear that you can probably use the DAC with either the 555PS or the XPS2. As far as any other power supplies that can be used we'll have to wait and see, but allowing the 555PS shows that Naim was thinking of the higher end range for sound playback and again, the versatility for those with the CDS3/HDX etc... to make use of their power supplies if they trade in as the case with the CDS3 or potentially "upgrade" the HDX if what Rupert Bear says he heard is true (not doubting RB). I don't know much about electronics engineering, so I would have no clue if it's possible to engineer the DAC so that it could accept any of the Naim power supply ranges so anyone with a HC or FC could "upgrade" as well or purchase an upgrade for less than the cost of the other power supplies.

In my case as an HDX owner, I'm glad it was done this way, since if I were to go the "DAC" route I can just re-shuffle the PS over to the DAC and voila and not have to go buy another PS.

Haven't seen any comments, but I'd be surprised if the HL wasn't or couldn't then be used from the DAC to your pre-amp. Again for me a simple re-shuffle.

We'll obviously have to wait to see what a "bare" DAC sounds like and what other upgrades might be possible to the DAC. If no other psu's other than the 555PS or XPS2 can be used, the real test will come with a demo of the "bare" unit.

The interesting question for me will be how this product performs (compared to other DACs at the $1000 price point) with its internal power supply. If it can compete with the Lavry DA10/DA11 in that configuration, it will be worth a try, but beyond the die hard fans on this forum, I can't see many people prepared to spend over $11,000 on a 555PS/Naim DAC combination when truly outstanding performance is available at less than one tenth of that price (and even moreso at 50%). Even a requirement for a HiCap power supply for performance comparable to the Lavry DAxx would be too much in my view.

I do believe however that it is an insult to the intelligence of forum readers to ask them to believe that this product is not a response to the surge in interest in the Lavry and other DACs at the same price point. I don't even see why such an assertion has to be made - the fact that Naim has been willing to make this a priority shows that it is listening to what its customers are saying, and that is something any reputable business should do.

quote:

So what are the tangible differences Adam?

Assuming it was not the final version of the DAC I guess we will just have to wait and see once the final specifications have been decided on, and Naim feel able to release them, so lets not get all testy already.

Barrie

Jazzfan,

As always the product will not appeal to everyone. Everyone is going to need to demo and compare not only against what they may have heard or bought already in the DAC realm and also compare to other sources such as CDPs they have and determine if it's a trade, addition, or a no go based on music and money.

If the bare product doesn't sound as good, is even equal or slightly better at supposedly $3KUSD to something that some else is using for much less they will not buy. I know that's what I would do and I suspect everyone else as well. I wouldn't need to have all Naim boxes on the shelf.

As I said above the proof will be comparisons of the bare unit powered by itself (with possibly a powerline instead of the supplied mains cable) that will win or lose the day for many. The ability to add the PSU to upgrade is solely a bonus feature. For many here if for $3K they feel that the performance far exceeds what they have with a Lavry DAxx then they will consider or absolutely purchase if finances allow. So it need not be $10K or even $5K to win the day.

I do however feel that the move to allow a psu upgrade, which we've always expected from Naim, is prudent as it allows others who have CDPs powered by the more expensive psu's to swap and re-use what they have. That's reasonable.

Ultimately all that matters is going to be comparisons with the bare unit, anything else that can be added to improve performance will only be a bonus.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
It's more than interesting to note that the Naim DAC was not demoed bare. Why not? Too early? More info needed.

Maybe they are still working on the internal PSU and wanted the "upgrade" available for the show to demonstrate how good it could be.

After what happened with the HDX last summer if this is the case this was prudent from Naim since if the bare unit was not "ready" and didn't sound good then people would already be turned off and would be harder to convince people that the production model was "better" than the demo unit. This for many, price aside, is what happened with the HDX since well all agree that the pre-production unit was not up to snuff.

quote:

but then it does not make any sense putting it in a 5 series case

I would prefer to see the DAC in a 5 series, rather than in a hicap- case, because i hate the 1/2 half look of the HC.
The best would be to put it in a reference case, i think if the DAC will have a price of 2000 pounds, this would be the adequate case.

It really should be in a full height case, especially at the price....It's going to look odd sitting next to 200 series and HDX et al otherwise...?

Big clap for Naim though, such good news this baby is finally on it's way...

Adam - I'm confused (well, generally), but I had 3 posts going on this DAC yesterday, as the news broke, and they've all 'disappeared'...Initially, for one of them, I thought it was due to the HiFi Room not being 'appropriate', but here we are.....??

Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by jazzfan:
I do believe however that it is an insult to the intelligence of forum readers to ask them to believe that this product is not a response to the surge in interest in the Lavry and other DACs at the same price point.

Could you use your intelligence to point out where anyone has been "asked to believe" this?

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
Could you use your intelligence to point out where anyone has been "asked to believe" this?

With respect, maybe you should use yours and read your own post earlier in this thread. Aren't you claiming there that the appearance of this product has little to do with the recent excitement over the Lavry?

Methinks you doth protest too much.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

I'd agree with this entirely, but then it does not make any sense putting it in a 5 series case.

Allen could you explain. I know from a "look" perspective it's nice to have the reference gear all in the same design. However, if the dac could be designed such that all the circuitry and the burndy connection be made to fit in the smaller 5 series box in theory it saves money for production for Naim and for you. I'm asuming that the 555PS/XPS2 require the reference box due to the size of the toroidal power supply or maybe they just did it to complete the look of the entire line.

Either way, does it matter?