The new Naim DAC

Posted by: rupert bear on 21 February 2009

The 10th floor of the Marriott hosts Doug G's demo of the new DAC. I was lucky to get the last ticket for the last show.

Demo used the HDX, 552/500, and SL2/n-sub. There was a little Mac sitting sweetly on its own bit of Fraim. First the HDX was played, then the HDX with 555PS (obvious vast improvement, as noted here before).

The new DAC was then fitted to the HDX, with the 555PS attached to the DAC instead. MASSIVE improvement, really quite exciting!

Finally the MACbook was introduced and plugged into the DAC/555PS. Also fantastic sound, which does rather make you think of the options - and the ramifications! The HDX/DAC did sound better, of course.

The DAC is in a 5-series case and has an internal p/s (not used at the show if I remember correctly). 5 buttons on the front a locking light (?).

Many thanks to Doug and Jason for the demo.

I'm first on the waiting list.
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by goldfinch
A reference Dac may be marketed to a reduced segment (not entry level and distributed audio enthusiasts). Thus the potential loss sales for not marketing until now such a product might not be very high. Besides, it is still the negative effect on CDP sales.
On the other hand, competitors have been launching dacs during the last two years and that's why I said previously they were arriving a bit late.
Nonetheless, I think this is not a problem at all for Naim. Not as far as presumibly most Naimees using other manufacturers dacs are looking forward to hearing the new baby, and, eventually buy one. I think Naim didn't need to be in a hurry launching such a DAC and at the same time, they couldn't be in a hurry because they have to launch such an excellent product as they usually do.

IMO Naim's reputation as a manufacturer of some of the finest digital sources (CDP) makes totally credible they are able to do the same with a standalone dac but they really have to be sure before any launching. A new product for the company, high development costs, reduced market, hard competition, potential CDP sales damage, and the necessity to match users' high expectations are all factors pointing out this is a risky new product decision...
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by Adam Meredith
quote:
Originally posted by Wazza69:
Naim AV1 anyone?


Not a great example - it still works as it always did. And I WOULD quite like one - very retro.
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by Wazza69
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Originally posted by Wazza69:
Naim AV1 anyone?


Not a great example - it still works as it always did. And I WOULD quite like one - very retro.


Yes, I agree as would a DAC if a higher res digital standard was agreed. However, the relative value would be much lower since it didnt support the prevailing standard. Then again, even if the AV1 did support Pro-logic then it still wouldnt be worth much I guess....

I would be interested to hear one actually....
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by js
quote:
Originally posted by Wazza69:
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Originally posted by Wazza69:
Naim AV1 anyone?


Not a great example - it still works as it always did. And I WOULD quite like one - very retro.


Yes, I agree as would a DAC if a higher res digital standard was agreed. However, the relative value would be much lower since it didnt support the prevailing standard. Then again, even if the AV1 did support Pro-logic then it still wouldnt be worth much I guess....

I would be interested to hear one actually....
The AV1 was about as popular when new as it would be now. Nobody's perfect. Big Grin
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by Paul Stephenson
quote:
are all factors pointing out this is a risky new product decision...


Goldfinch, I dont think there will be a perfect time over the next couple of years,we plan to support our cd business for many years, its important to us, we make great music with them but we must be flexible with our product offering to reflect different customer needs for playing high quality music. Our engineering effort is totally focused to get the best results in the market place, best results to naim means best sound.
It a very exciting time,we love the challenge we have plans which we believe will stand up as we go forward.
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by pylod
[/QUOTE]



It takes years to build a brand, and very little time to destroy it ( some-one mentioned leica earlier )

[/QUOTE]

yes so true...we really living in quite agresive time...

by the way... leica is not dead at all...at least all my laicas function flowerless.. while my digital hasselblad was the most expensive and the worst equipment, i have ever had...and unfortunatelly still have Red Face
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by u5227470736789454
quote:
by the way... leica is not dead at all...at least all my laicas function flowerless.. while my digital hasselblad was the most expensive and the worst equipment, i have ever had...and unfortunatelly still have


No Leica, aren't dead, but they took a hell of a hammering over the M8, with it's colour cast need for UV/IR filters to be fitted and the rest of the range becoming Panasonics with better glass and software - but I'm with you, I love them Smile

Hasselblad - same as Leica - "Joint Venture " with Fuji, loss of direction etc, etc

damned sad really

Happy clicking with your Leica

Barrie
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by Harry H. Wombat
quote:
iPhone, arrived to the market late, took learnings from existing products in the marketplace and came out with a killer product, which swept the opposition away and is now copied by them all- whether you like Apple or not


Good point Barrie. Also I remember that there was a hard disk based portable music player called, as I recall, the Creative Zen Jukebox or something. I owned one. It was rubbish. Not one single thing about it was right. It was large, unwieldy, low volume, tiny buttons and a screen you couldn't read. Wonder whatever happened to that Smile

Difference now, of course, is that there are a number of DACs on the market the majority of which are at least good enough to use and in many cases excellent. I will, though, be auditioning the NAIM DAC as soon as it is available as, I suspect, will many others.

Now, if NAIM could just give us a teeny,tiny, teeny-weeny bit more information about say, the connectivity or jitter-reduction .. Smile
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by pylod
quote:
Originally posted by baz100:
quote:
by the way... leica is not dead at all...at least all my laicas function flowerless.. while my digital hasselblad was the most expensive and the worst equipment, i have ever had...and unfortunatelly still have


No Leica, aren't dead, but they took a hell of a hammering over the M8, with it's colour cast need for UV/IR filters to be fitted and the rest of the range becoming Panasonics with better glass and software - but I'm with you, I love them Smile

Hasselblad - same as Leica - "Joint Venture " with Fuji, loss of direction etc, etc

damned sad really

Happy clicking with your Leica

Barrie


i know this maybe doesn´t belong here but :

i agree, that leica is late. they had a bad ceo over the last years. that´s past now. i think we can expect much more to come...

well actually the best with the hasselblad camera are the fuji lenses... ironically Big Grin
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by goldfinch
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Stephenson:
It a very exciting time,we love the challenge we have plans which we believe will stand up as we go forward.


I wish master audio quality downloads became popular soon among audio enthusiasts, it is indeed a very exciting time, and DACs are needed to enjoy all these new digital ways to enjoy music!
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by Wazza69
quote:
Originally posted by goldfinch:

I wish master audio quality downloads became popular soon among audio enthusiasts, it is indeed a very exciting time, and DACs are needed to enjoy all these new digital ways to enjoy music!


Just out of interest, what are the specs of studio masters?
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by goldfinch
quote:
Originally posted by Wazza69:
quote:
Originally posted by goldfinch:

I wish master audio quality downloads became popular soon among audio enthusiasts, it is indeed a very exciting time, and DACs are needed to enjoy all these new digital ways to enjoy music!



Just out of interest, what are the specs of studio masters?


I think the standard HD res for downloading from a consumer point of view is 24/96, no idea of which percentage of the industry is recording at this resolution in studios though.
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:
And I WOULD quite like one - very retro.

Forum Rules, Adam.

But I am looking at one that's sole purpose at the moment is to fill a gap in an Audiofile rack........

Cheers

Don
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by 'haroldbudd'
quote:
Originally posted by goldfinch:
quote:
Originally posted by Wazza69:
quote:
Originally posted by goldfinch:

I wish master audio quality downloads became popular soon among audio enthusiasts, it is indeed a very exciting time, and DACs are needed to enjoy all these new digital ways to enjoy music!



Just out of interest, what are the specs of studio masters?


I think the standard HD res for downloading from a consumer point of view is 24/96, no idea of which percentage of the industry is recording at this resolution in studios though.


A very very high percentage, and even at higher sample rates. Wether or not the suits release those juicy files to the masses is out of our hands and another matter all together Frown
After the Mastering people ( or kids it sounds like sometimes ) finish bringing it down to 16/44, the big nice ones go off to some magical storage place that eveyone would love to break into !!
Posted on: 26 February 2009 by js
quote:
Originally posted by haroldbudd:
PLEASE don't quote every time......
RR is selling 24/176 recordings on disc for ripping to a drive.

I also wanted to point out that I don't think Naim is doing exactly what DICE and JET are doing. While they are a big step up over standard pll circuits they still can't fix things enough to eliminate differences in drives etc and with the reclocking circuits that I've auditioned, while making poor sources more listenable, hamper really good ones. I suspect something much more comprehensive to help us with what most will feed in while doing no harm to a genuinely excellent source.
Posted on: 27 February 2009 by Adam Meredith
quote:
Originally posted by munch:

Makes one think.


Only if one could understand a word you were saying.
Posted on: 27 February 2009 by Roy Donaldson
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Originally posted by munch:

Makes one think.


Only if one could understand a word you were saying.


You wouldn't believe it, but one of my neighbours speaks just like this as well.

I've no idea what he's saying either Roll Eyes
Posted on: 27 February 2009 by Mike Smiff
Naim Audio were five years late into the CD player market and lets face it they now make the best players in the world.

So I don't mind the fact that they are late into the DAC market, if in fact they are as some suggest.

If 24/96 or whatever is the future it is still going to be a while before we,the man in the street has access to the format on a widely, commercially available level.

So why the rush, most people listening to computer music who need a DAC to make it listenable are still playing 16/44.1,up sampled
24/96 ect.
Which if not done absolutely correct offers more problems in terms of distortions than the extra
resolution it might provide the audiophile/music lover.

Take you're time Naim R'n'D,you did with cd and you got that right.
Posted on: 27 February 2009 by 'haroldbudd'
Spot on Mikeie