The new Naim DAC

quote:

Originally posted by SC:

Apparently the Bristol demo is consisting of playback from a Mac(?), then playback from a connected HDX. I totally find it confusing why it is being shown in conjunction with a HDX, especially initially. Surely this is making an instant negative comment on the HDX - that indeed, the internal DAC can be bettered - and also flies in the face of all the PR that came with the HDX...? Sure, if the new box can be used as an optional external upgrade DAC (again, something of a turnaround for Naim here) then great, for those that have the funds and the desire to do so, I just wouldn't have thought it is a priority to be demonstrating now.... Surely, the main raison d’ être of this DAC, or any other, is to aid in incorporating all the other mixed forms and platforms of digital media that 'now' exist and are in use "in the general market trend" into the main Naim rig in the living room...?

Steve.

Steve, it doesn't sound like they are comparing the HDX DAC to the new DAC from what I can read. You may have noticed that Naim don't have many sources that output digital signals, so to find one in-house that outputs a nice clean signal to feed to their new mystery DAC, the HDX seems the natural choice. N-Vi or DVD-5 could also be put into service, but neither play from a ripped files. And of course comparing the HDX to a typical Apple iTunes as streamer source and showing a good sized difference between the two puts the HDX in good light and shows people, as ever, that there is no DAC magic and source is still king.

It would be interesting to know if the Apple iTunes was playing a WAV file ripped by the iTunes software and all the settings on the apple as others have queried. Or if it was an HDX rip, transferred into iTunes, then played back through Apple hardware/software. Some differences could also arise from difference between Coax and Optical transmission.

quote:

Originally posted by Naijeru:
At nearly $3,000 I fear its projected performance may unbalance my 5i-2 based system.

Nah..

A Nait 5i-2 sounds fabulous with a CD555.
Never underestimate your little Nait.

Good point connon price. And I wasn't meaning that the HDX was being 'compared', just that I didn't see the real point in putting the HDX in line with the new DAC - true, it serves as a good clean source, but at the end of the day, I think this is all about external computer platforms and streamers of various natures....

quote:

Originally posted by jazzfan:

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:

While we take the views of forum members seriously there is a bigger world out there. I think the "upsurge in general DAC popularity" might have manifested itself out there for all to see.

There is no concession here - I have CLAIMED it as a factor. It would be a bizarre company that decided to develop a DAC when no popularity existed.

Whatever your choice of words - my point is that you are insulting the intelligence of forum members by claiming that the Lavry's popularity has little or nothing to do with this product. As I say, I don't see why it is so important to you to continue to insist that there is no connection - your determination to continue arguing the point speaks for itself as far as I am concerned.

And as far as I am concerned this is the end of this puerile discussion- I have better things to do with my time. Frankly, I couldn't care less what the reason for development is or was - the quality of the product in both absolute and VFM terms is much more important to me (and should be to you too).

I was reading all Jazzfans answers (although he claims to have better things to do) and I must say that I do not fully understand his logic (not only the paradox of writing an message saying I have more important things than writing messages). But claiming "to continue arguing the point speaks for itself" is quite remarkable. Does that mean for example if I continue to claim something, then I actually mean the opposite? Or if you kid says, "I did not steal cake" it means that he did it?

But to come back the key issue, I find it rather natural that a large a well organized high tech company has a long term strategy and that this is guiding its decisions (the strategy is of course based on market conditions). This means that the resources of the company are used in such a way that they will long term work towards such goals and market positions. Therefore, I do not believe that Naim one day just stops this long term work and all the R&D to say

"0HHH NOOOO! There are some guys at the forum claiming that Lavry has made a good dac! lets stop everything we are doing for the future and do a better dac"

This is simply not the way a well organized company is managed. But, of course Naim is looking at the competitors and what they are up to, and I would be very surprised if they have not for example looked at what Linn (which has achieved super performance with server technology) is doing and have been speculating what their future plans are and how this will influence how “the future hifi system will look”. In line with this vision of course also building up competence, technology, suppliers, marketing strategies etc to meet this future market.

So I certainly hope (and am convinced) that naim is more long-term oriented and has plans for how the future hifi systems will be like. Not only panic and come up with ad hoc solutions as Jazzman seems to believe.

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
Good point connon price. And I wasn't meaning that the HDX was being 'compared', just that I didn't see the real point in putting the HDX in line with the new DAC - true, it serves as a good clean source, but at the end of the day, I think this is all about external computer platforms and streamers of various natures....

The HDX is external to the DAC and it is a streamer. You think they should have had an iTransport feeding it? They had the iBook there so I think it surely is a lot about external computer and streaming platforms (I would hazard a guess that it will be used 75% with non naim source. But I think it is very clever of them to show the HDX, which I presume they hope to sell more of, as an option, and a superior sounding one, to a very common external platform, as found in the ubiquitous iTunes.

Well put, naken janne. The notion that Naim all of a sudden began to develop a DAC because 20 or 30 forum members fell in love with Lavry can be characterized as narcissistic, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by naken janne:
So I certainly hope (and am convinced) that naim is more long-term oriented and has plans for how the future hifi systems will be like.

Could you please post this over in the Home Theatre Room for the attention of AV@Naim !

quote:

Originally posted by aht:
The notion that Naim all of a sudden began to develop a DAC because 20 or 30 forum members fell in love with Lavry can be characterized as narcissistic, IMHO.

Or it shows how naive some folks are.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
....
There will be plenty of people who either just bought a Lavry, think the Lavry is better VFM, flatout think the Lavry better conveys the music or simply cannot afford the new Naim DAC....

Surely the men in white coats will take such people away.

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
One more thing. Fleetwood Mac's Rumours was being used..? Excellent choice Doug !

Hmmm ... I'd sooner hear a demo with some real music rather than elevator muzak

This is my fear for a new hi-res format; it'll the same old junk that DVD-A, SACD and the rest attracted; Brother in Arms will be next ... then ... zzzzzz - I've fallen asleep already. Next it 'll be the bald headed drummer boy ...

How about some music we can get up and go to school with - some guitar solos that make you want to pedestrianise the high street ... I mean get your shoes and socks on people.

At last there is a Naim DAC on the horizon lets forget the L word and lets celebrate.

ATB Rotf

quote:

I sense a bit of blind faith here. Stick it in a black case and people will come.

I think the blind faith is on both sides of this discussion.

Barrie

Jazzman

quote:

I will give it a go but it is only honest to point out that the last 6 months I have spent with the Lavry have really raised my point of reference as far as digital sound quality (and VFM) is concerned. Just having the Naim logo (and future upgradability via power supplies) won't cut it any more as far as I'm concerned. I'm prepared to pay a premium for improved sound quality

What kit do you have at the moment, I couldn't see it in your profile

quote:

Whether this is the route I go, integrating my HiFi with my Mac network or ATV, or whether I stick to the previously planned HDX approach, at least I now HAVE the choice, which is what was nagging me previously....or even a combination of both....

I am with you on this Steve, to me this DAC just increases my options tto

Barrie

quote:

But I think it is very clever of them to show the HDX, which I presume they hope to sell more of, as an option, and a superior sounding one, to a very common external platform, as found in the ubiquitous iTunes.

A very interesting comparison - i must say comparing an HDX and a Sonos, both driving an external DAC - there wasn't really any discernable difference through the 500 series system we were listening to. I look forward to being able to demo the Naim DAC in my own system and make up my own mind.

James

quote:

Try the bloody thing then commmmment on it

I am in complete agreement with Munch and JS, speculation is worthless, until we hear the end product and make up our individual minds its all just hot air.

Barrie

quote:

We just need details: input types and number, bitrates, supported encoding etc.

Why

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
Now what I really wanted is a DAC with a LAN based client, or an HDX without the hard disks, at a GP2000 price point ...

That's exactly what I want. An ethernet / wireless streamer with built in DAC.

Basically, a Naim equivilant of the Linn DS series.

Something with the Naim sound, around the 2k mark to go in my main system.

Roy.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by jazzfan:
This will be my last word on the subject - ...


For some reason I doubt it.

PLEASE prove me wrong.

On the positive side PCS you were right

On the negative side PCS you were right

quote:

Originally posted by connon price:
Steve, it doesn't sound like they are comparing the HDX DAC to the new DAC from what I can read.

Actually, they were first adding the N-DAC/555PS to the bare HDX, then comparing the 'front-end' sound of the HDX to that of the Macbook while using the N-DAC/555PS.

I came away feeling I would be happy to live with the sound of either one of the latter, to be honest.

As far as being coy and all those other fine words, Naim were demonstrating for the first time what they repeatedly stressed was a prototype, very-pre-production model. As has been suggested, it may well not (yet) have had an internal PSU fitted.

As far as the looks, I think in the 5-series case it looks brilliant, and so much nicer, especially in terms of connectivity and control arrangements, than it would have in a Hicap case. And it will match my NAT05!

I think the ticket only DAC event was a more open equivalent of a "customer clinic", you have a product, it is in its development stage and you want to get some real world product feedback for any final tweeks before the product specification is cast in stone - nothing new in this most manufacturers do it.

Barrie

quote:

Originally posted by Roy Donaldson:

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
Now what I really wanted is a DAC with a LAN based client, or an HDX without the hard disks, at a GP2000 price point ...

That's exactly what I want. An ethernet / wireless streamer with built in DAC.

Basically, a Naim equivilant of the Linn DS series.

Something with the Naim sound, around the 2k mark to go in my main system.

Roy.

Just building a DAC while relying on Logitech/Apple to deal with the hassle of the interface may be a smart move for Naim.

Again, if this type of combination beats a CDX then UKP 2k is not bad.

Andrew Randle

quote:

Just building a DAC while relying on Logitech/Apple to deal with the hassle of the interface may be a smart move for Naim.

Completely agree - I buy Naim because it sounds great and over the last 15 years or so has never let me down. I like the Logitech approach using Squeezecentre, and also the menu navigation using the remote on my Transporter. The sound from the Transporter is also great, but I remain convinced that Naim could do better. All I need therefore is a top spec Naim DAC to complete my trip to audio nirvana.

AllenB

Please help me understand your logic, or maybe help me to explain in a way in which you find easy to follow

The item exists, but the final specification is maybe not decided, even the box it will be in may not be decided, nor perhaps are the inputs/outputs etc so whatever we guess and debate and get hot under the collar about is just hot air - there is no formal communicated product specification, so where is the contradiction ?

Barrie

AllenB

I seem to be struggling with your comments as well. On the one hand it appears that you are very excited about a new DAC but on the other hand extremely critical...it needs a reference case, it costs too much, etc, etc....

Surely there's no way any of us on this forum can answer those questions at the moment. We/you have really no idea at what stage the development is at and the assertion that the Lavry "team" have forced Naim into building a DAC is pretty bloody laughable. Naim haven't been the successful business they are today by following every new trend, I thought that would be pretty obvious.

My guess is that it's all very early and a show demonstration is a way to let people know that "yes, we are seriously working on something".

If history is anything to go by then it's still 3-6 months away from customer consumption.

Jay

Give Doug and the Naim brains-trust a chance. Akin to the Superline, all they have done is put the news officially in to the marketplace, with a pre-pro model.

It's purely a commercial decision with numerous drivers behind it and I suspect it will now tempt many to hold off buying other DACs (nice marketing move!), perhaps for several months. The Superline took (too?) many months to deliver and by common consent it bests the rest, whichever way you connect it up.

The redundancy of CD players in consumer terms has been in vogue for some time now - technology marches on.

You pays yer money and you takes your choice against what your ears tell you.