The new Naim DAC

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Please don't patronise me.

I was just trying to help, as my explanation was obviously not clear enough - please don't get over-sensitive

Barrie

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It's purely a commercial decision with numerous drivers behind it and I suspect it will now tempt many to hold off buying other DACs (nice marketing move!),

Good point, I think it's nice of Naim to try and help people delay buying other brand DACs that they may want to try and return or sell after they've heard the Naim offer ( or they may not of course - comment made for impartiality )

Barrie

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Originally posted by AllenB:

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Originally posted by DaveBk:
All I need therefore is a top spec Naim DAC to complete my trip to audio nirvana.

Absolutely, it's what we all want.

Just not sure this Naim DAC will hit that spot, nor am I sure we will see a range of stand-alone DAC's.

Don't get me wrong, I think this DAC will be capable of beating the results achieved with the HDX and CDX2 and even maybe the CDS3 on a like-for-like basis (i.e. with additional PSU of choice) and therefore, and probably, all it's current crop of competitors.

But Naim have to leave room for it's HD555, or whatever it will be called. Only there will you have the top-end DAC / streamer working with the 555PS no doubt, and maybe the hard disks separated into a 'Naim NAS', but the main box will be HDX like, only with (relatively) massive engineering to protect the DAC and output boards.

All IMO, of course

Hi Allen

I have no crystal ball, but this hypothesis seems on the money to me. Problem is if the Naim DAC is better than a Lavry, then coupled with a correctly setup MAC, this will (being diplomatic here) equal the 555. I have experience of these comparisons and no longer own a 555.

A HD555 if better than the above really would be a quantum leap in digital replay, and thus I hope this is true. It will rise or fall then in direct comparison/ competition with the Linn Klimax thingie box. If Linn ever sort out the iTunes issues and pants interface this could all get very interesting.

Bottom line is IF this new box beats a Lavry with no PS and then is even better with PS it will IMO trounce every CD player out there. Some believe the Lavry already does this so ....


Cheers

quote:

seem to be struggling with your comments as well. On the one hand it appears that you are very excited about a new DAC but on the other hand extremely critical...it needs a reference case, it costs too much, etc, etc....

Jay,

I think peoples viewpoints and opinions can be coloured, not unreasonably I suppose, by the current kit that they own.

Barrie

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Originally posted by Andrew Randle:

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Originally posted by Roy Donaldson:

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Originally posted by JYOW:
Now what I really wanted is a DAC with a LAN based client, or an HDX without the hard disks, at a GP2000 price point ...

That's exactly what I want. An ethernet / wireless streamer with built in DAC.

Basically, a Naim equivilant of the Linn DS series.

Something with the Naim sound, around the 2k mark to go in my main system.

Roy.

Just building a DAC while relying on Logitech/Apple to deal with the hassle of the interface may be a smart move for Naim.

Again, if this type of combination beats a CDX then UKP 2k is not bad.

Andrew Randle

They already have the technology in the HDX and Uniti to add an ethernet port. As well as optical and coax inputs to a DAC, ethernet should be a standard offering nowadays.

If I then want to just plug my aTV in I can, if I want to attach it to my network to pull all my stored media off my NAS I can do that too.

Roy.

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They already have the technology in the HDX and Uniti to add an ethernet port. As well as optical and coax inputs to a DAC, ethernet should be a standard offering nowadays.

If I then want to just plug my aTV in I can, if I want to attach it to my network to pull all my stored media off my NAS I can do that too.

The issue with adding ethernet is that you then need to build all the control / user interface into the DAC which in effect makes it a streamer. There's no standard protocol that allows an ethernet DAC to pull the music stream of any connected device. SPDIF Optical HDMI etc. are all designed just to stream audio/video content plus a few more bells and whistles.

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If it's been in development for so long what's the harm in throwing us some pointers.

I really don't understand the need to see this - what difference does it make to the price of fish ?

It just feels like people want to be able to say -" you see it's because of x or y that Naim were forced to do this or that." IMHO

It doesn't matter honestly, relax.

Barrie

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But I don't think they will be doing it twice or three times (a stand-alone DAC range)

I agree AllenB which is why Naim may have gone down the PSU upgradability path, it allows owners of existing PSU's to re-allocate them within their system, and allows new starters to begin with a capable DAC and then upgrade through PSU's rather than having to but a replacemant DAC V10 becomes V11 etc. It's actually a rather clever approach and continues their current upgrade model.

The level of the "buit-in" DAC PSU will be known when it's launched, until then ........?

Barrie

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Well there's stating the bleedin' obvious if ever I saw it.

Any more cliches?

No, but I find it is worth stating the obvious as peoples posts and standpoints are often best read and understood once you have looked at their current kit.

I also said this was reasonable - is that OK with you ?

Barrie

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Take off the blinkers.

Why does a stand-alone DAC need a whole series of PSU upgrades ending in £4.5k extra?

Erm, it doesn't, that is like asking why most Naim kit "needs" PSU upgrades. Adding another PSU lifts the performance, but you don't "need" to fit one.

Or maybe what you are implying in fact is that Naim upgrade path offering the ability to add improved performance through upgrading PSU's is totally wrong ?

Barrie

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Originally posted by DaveBk:
The issue with adding ethernet is that you then need to build all the control / user interface into the DAC which in effect makes it a streamer. There's no standard protocol that allows an ethernet DAC to pull the music stream of any connected device. SPDIF Optical HDMI etc. are all designed just to stream audio/video content plus a few more bells and whistles.

Yes there is. You can mount SMB file shares and access uPnP shared media as 2 standard ways of accessing your media.

For control interface, if you make it a uPnP end point, then it can be controlled by a number of off the shelf free interfaces.

Roy.

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Naim have had roadmaps throughout their existence and have been relatively happy to publish them

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f it's been in development for so long what's the harm in throwing us some pointers.

taken in the context of the origional paragraph this obviously is linked to the DAC development timeline which as I've said before is of no use or interest.

Unless I misread the paragraph

Barrie

Hello all.

Time to invoke everyone's wrath again. I went to the 2:30pm closed demo on Friday. The system sounded really good to my ears and certainly much better than my CDX2/XPS, 252, 300, B&W802D system here at home. I could have listened for hours. The first 'upgrade' was to use the 555 psu instead of the internal psu of the HDX. At the end of this demo, Doug said how much more emotion and feeling had come over with the 555. Virtually all the heads in front of me nodded with agreement. This made me feel bad because I really concentrated and listened as hard as I know how to and I heard absolutely zero difference. I had gone with a work colleague and he agreed too that he heard no difference. Next up was the new DAC. I felt here that I heard some improvement but it was pretty small. And finally, the music straight from the MAC versus the HDX ripped version. Sorry, I preferred it straight from the MAC, although again the difference was only slight. So in conclusion, I'm still not convinced that PSU's make any difference (and yes I do own an XPS2 which I bought after auditioning at the same time as the CDX2, but at the time I had money to burn, hey ho). BUT, it all sounded great from the word go, so when funds allow I will have to audition properly the 552/500. Would I be correct in thinking that this was what I was liking so much? I did originally have Allaes before swapping them out to the 802D's because I never really got on with them and at the moment I find that the 802's have so much weight and scale I would be loathe to change them for SL2's which were being demo'd, but I enjoyed the system so much that maybe its the SL2's that I was likeing?

Cheers,

Marc

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So assuming you eat fish all year, will you budget for salmon or sardines, or just rely on whatever you catch?

like many people my budget is what it is, it is not elastic, and if all I can afford is sardines then that is all I can buy, whether the salmon looks great or not.


Barrie

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Baz, are you related to Gary?

Can I assume this isn't intended as a positive comment ?

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Now you've lost me, and I think that is out of context.

It's OK AllenB I have problems with my memory too
If you re-read your own origional post it might help you.

Barrie

Folks,

The high end DAC market (top end Lavry, Weiss, Stahl-Tek, Berkley) - seem to start around the $5K then go upwards from there to $20K (Stahl-Tek).

IF - Naim are intending to release a reference DAC at £2K with the ability to upgrade with the usual power supplies - AND - the resultant performance level is generally accepted to be peer with the above alternatives - THEN I think NAIM will do well even in this climate.

This will still be too much for many of us - but such is life.

Cheers

Richard

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Originally posted by baz100:

quote:

So assuming you eat fish all year, will you budget for salmon or sardines, or just rely on whatever you catch?

like many people my budget is what it is, it is not elastic, and if all I can afford is sardines then that is all I can buy, whether the salmon looks great or not.


Barrie

Personally I've Haddock up to here with this topic, but I'll say my piece just for the Halibut.

Naim have done what we've all wanted, and chances are the new DAC will be very good indeed. I'll borrow one from my dealer, try it out in direct comparison with my Lavry, and if it sounds better to me I'll likely as not buy one.

"No, I am not implying that at all, I have two very expensive power supplies in my system."

excellent then they won't be wasted and the naim upgrade model is alive and well

"I would also like the DAC to stand alone, and beat the competition on it's own. Not likely though, is it?"

I have no idea, you obviously have access to better information than anybody else on this forum

Barrie

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Originally posted by baz100:

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Baz, are you related to Gary?

Can I assume this isn't intended as a positive comment ?

Barrie, you should be taking this as the highest form of compliment!!!

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Barrie, you should be taking this as the highest form of compliment!!!

I am suitably impressed

****

Gary - don't.

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Time to invoke everyone's wrath again.

Absolutely not :-
1) you've actually heard it so are perfectly entitled to express your opinion
2) We know it was a pre-prod unit so maybe some differences with the final production model as per the HDX, or maybe not

Barrie

Well done Naim!

If you have already made the psu investment this is going to sell like hot cakes. My advice is to not skip on functions and inputs, but become a really strong offering for retail and pro users.

Cool banana!

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ou have assumed you know what salmon is on offer

Doesn't matter what type it is if my budget can't meet the price

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No, do not assume, it just depends which way you look at it.

Thank, I'll take it as a positive then

Can we keep this going, I'm getting close to my senior membership and you are helping so much

Barrie