The new Naim DAC

Hush up. You're jeopardizing my freebee.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
This presumption is entirely based on your personal view of your favorite DAC being a world beater when in fact others here have discarded it for similarly priced DACs and other forms of playback. Of course you are also not alone but it is a minority view that shouldn't be approached as fact but instead as preference. I believe there's few significant levels of improvement still available from a DAC format but will have to wait and see how things fall out, what is cost effective and for who. I'll be comparing it to the DAC in the NAGRA VI with Highcap. Not any of the $1k DACs.

Theory is all well and good but let's wait and see how production units sound. The bar has been set very high and I assume we all actually want Naim to overachieve expectations. Many Lavry owners have stated here they will switch to the Naim DAC if it indeed does deliver more performance. We'll have to wait until the summer to find out...

Of course you're going to defend the new products cos you're trying to sell them.

Interestingly I don't see many UK dealers being so vocal. In fact, some have embrased the competitive technologies and offer the customer a choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Graham Russell:

quote:

Originally posted by js:
This presumption is entirely based on your personal view of your favorite DAC being a world beater when in fact others here have discarded it for similarly priced DACs and other forms of playback. Of course you are also not alone but it is a minority view that shouldn't be approached as fact but instead as preference. I believe there's few significant levels of improvement still available from a DAC format but will have to wait and see how things fall out, what is cost effective and for who. I'll be comparing it to the DAC in the NAGRA VI with Highcap. Not any of the $1k DACs.

Theory is all well and good but let's wait and see how production units sound. The bar has been set very high and I assume we all actually want Naim to overachieve expectations. Many Lavry owners have stated here they will switch to the Naim DAC if it indeed does deliver more performance. We'll have to wait until the summer to find out...

Of course you're going to defend the new products cos you're trying to sell them.

Interestingly I don't see many UK dealers being so vocal. In fact, some have embrased the competitive technologies and offer the customer a choice.

Quite sensible but I was initially interested in the Lavry to sell without knowledge of a Naim DAC but it wasn't for me and I you could say that I am biased towards Naim kit because of what it does for me musically but not every piece. Ask Adam, Doug or Paul. We're rather ruthless. I have not said one thing about the DAC's performance and will not until I hear it. Stating the known advantages of outboard and more elaborate PS's is clearly relative to the initial goodness of the piece. We'll all have to wait for that. Posting here doesn't help my sales. My only customers that I'm aware of visiting this site, post here. We've been around for 25 years and a forum is not where my clients form their opinions. I often set up, hand the controls over and leave the room in a dem. The kit should speak for itself.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):
*****

Sorry Adam.

js / PM- Thanks, the powerline is burning in nicely!

Allen B, did you see my reply to your comment further up the page Sir?

rega1

quote:

Originally posted by Graham Russell:

quote:

Originally posted by js:
This presumption is entirely based on your personal view of your favorite DAC being a world beater when in fact others here have discarded it for similarly priced DACs and other forms of playback. Of course you are also not alone but it is a minority view that shouldn't be approached as fact but instead as preference. I believe there's few significant levels of improvement still available from a DAC format but will have to wait and see how things fall out, what is cost effective and for who. I'll be comparing it to the DAC in the NAGRA VI with Highcap. Not any of the $1k DACs.

Theory is all well and good but let's wait and see how production units sound. The bar has been set very high and I assume we all actually want Naim to overachieve expectations. Many Lavry owners have stated here they will switch to the Naim DAC if it indeed does deliver more performance. We'll have to wait until the summer to find out...

Of course you're going to defend the new products cos you're trying to sell them.

Interestingly I don't see many UK dealers being so vocal. In fact, some have embrased the competitive technologies and offer the customer a choice.

I don't think the bar has been set that high. Everyone is raving over a $1000 DAC on this forum. I don't think naim will release anything to jeopardize its reputation, quality. I am sure they will provide a product that will sustain itself for the future and be an addition to existing components. Wise business decisions will be made, I will assume.

I trust they will make sure that it is superior to the competition and will be in the proper price catagory for the consumer(I can only hope).

rega1

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

quote:

Originally posted by rega1:
I would suggest here, that most of us on this forum know that any naim stand alone components out perform other competitors products in their respective range. That is why we are naim owners, and people migrate from other manufacturers products. The PSU ugrades are a "fantastic" addition to the sound refinement. I would venture to say the a stand alone naim DAC will out perform other average DAC's in the price range.

Just my opinion.

rega1

Hi rega1, sorry kind of lost this during all the other postings.

Yes I agree on Naim ownership, I am aware of the benefits of PSU upgrades, I have through history (olive to now), tried or heard most of them. I've spent a fortune on them.

Let's not forget, we are talking a stand-alone DAC, not a HDX or similar product which has all sorts of other components and things happening inside the box. We will have to wait and see what the PS is like in the Naim DAC and what has to be added (upgrade-wise) if necessary to beat the competition. Then you do your sums.

Agreed. It is kind of exciting though. With a naim DAC, the possibilities are almost quite endless.

rega1

Well, all I can say is that if this much dialogue has been elicited and almost nobody has heard the darn thing, what can we expect when it is demoed again at a show and is ready for sale?

quote:

Originally posted by baz100:

quote:

So assuming you eat fish all year, will you budget for salmon or sardines, or just rely on whatever you catch?

like many people my budget is what it is, it is not elastic, and if all I can afford is sardines then that is all I can buy, whether the salmon looks great or not.

I would like to point out that no comments herein posted (especially those quoted above) represent the opinions of Naim Audio.

The official Naim Audio line is:

"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".

Still no facts and figures then.....!?

8 pages of mostly hot air...! Apologies, think I'm getting bored for now....Off to go and look at pictures of the Chord iPod love in.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):
Well, all I can say is that if this much dialogue has been elicited and almost nobody has heard the darn thing, what can we expect when it is demoed again at a show and is ready for sale?

people to still find fault in the new product like they are with the uniti.

rega1

555,

I know it is a good one, funny or sarcastic, but I, for the life of me can't figure out the inside joke on the picture.

you gotta tell me.....

rega1

quote:

Barrie,

it will be interesting to see which way you eventually decide to go once the DAC is released, ie. HDX/HDX + DAC/ DAC. Interesting developments and potential options depending on how this DAC turns out.

Hi gary1(US)
I think it's great to have a manufacturer that offers this breadth of choice. My planned upgrade was an HDX in September-ish, but lets wait and see what comes out before then, (although another P/L may magically appear before September)

I like the elegance of the HDX solution, although I do appreciate the differing views on ripping/storage etc, the other part of the equation is my S/N, I appreciate the DAC in it's not going to be as good as a stand alone, but maybe it's good enough for me for a while, so at this moment it looks like a source first approach.

but lets see and hear what comes out , it may change my plan

Barrie

Good day all. I'm about to get blasted here.

I don't understand all the fuss over the psu for a Naim audio piece. Getting better sound out of ones rig by adding one more black box is NOTHING NEW around here. How many post have been banged out on ones computer regarding how a stageline sounds like crap unless you add at least a hicap if not a suppercap? You can't even talk about a headphone amp around here without someone bringing up a suppercap. Why should a Naim DAC be any different?

I can't tell you how many times I've had a good chuckle over the " I'm looking at a cd5i or a cd5x can I get some help" and the mind of the borg replies in great numbers " Just get a cdx2 It's only $3k more."

1: it's a prototype. 2: NOONE at the show has had a chance to compare it to the non-Naim flavor of the month. 3: When has Naim gear been the least expensive choice to be made?

In closing why don't we all wait and see how this unit ends up shaking out before we get our collective panties in a twist.


I'm done now!
xoxo
Dean

What a shame,I don't think this thread merits its title.

I just wasted my time reading 9 pages of bitchiness and nothing about something most on here have been wishing for. Only bad comment with no information about the actual product. These pages are more suited and what one would expect to read on another well known forum whenever the name of Naim is mentioned.

We asked for a SuperNait, we got it, now most are saying it don't sound like a naim, we now got a new surprise everyone product named the NaimUnity - Oh! it's not what I was waiting for! they shout those that were waiting for a NaimDac - but then what do you know they surprise us all again with our wish a NaimDac at last!!! Again it doesn't please us all.

On all three products I could most probably count the dissatisfied for each product on 2 hands so to say. If naim were only hoping to sell to these dissatisfied numbers then they would be out of business. Don't get me wrong EVERYONE counts but there is a whole world out there.

I discovered Naim for the 1st time in WhatHifi mag showing the CD5i with that SWING OUT TRAY. In a LIFESTYLE kind of way "how cool" I thought, I want one and hey what do you know I discovered Naim was a british brand with history and musical excellence and what I thought was going to be seriously expensive was actually affordable. The NaimUnity and all their new products I hope will increase their customer base which will also be good for us too.

This is a Naim forum lets get a new thread for the long awaited DAC with some real info and pictures please.

Regards

ps. could we also have the swing out tray on the new n-vi please

quote:

Originally posted by baz100:

quote:

Barrie,

it will be interesting to see which way you eventually decide to go once the DAC is released, ie. HDX/HDX + DAC/ DAC. Interesting developments and potential options depending on how this DAC turns out.

Hi gary1(US)
I think it's great to have a manufacturer that offers this breadth of choice. My planned upgrade was an HDX in September-ish, but lets wait and see what comes out before then, (although another P/L may magically appear before September)

I like the elegance of the HDX solution, although I do appreciate the differing views on ripping/storage etc, the other part of the equation is my S/N, I appreciate the DAC in it's not going to be as good as a stand alone, but maybe it's good enough for me for a while, so at this moment it looks like a source first approach.

but lets see and hear what comes out , it may change my plan

Barrie

Barrie, the problem is not that the SN DAC is bad, the problem is the connectivity to the DAC from your computer source. I've used Sonos and also heard the TC Konnekt, but while Sonos is fun and very listenable, it just doesn't meet the quality I want. The TC does a nice job, but no imterface.

The Naim DAC will work great, but I'm going to bet that the computer -->DAC hookup is where the issue will not be what you really want. I know others will disagree, but I would suspect that the digital out and signal processing by the HDX is far superior to a Mac/PC without spending oodles of money.

While I'll after to wait to hear as you, money aside, I'd bet that the HDX (source first) is the better sounding stand alone device.

If anybody has a photo of DAC pls post it here...

Hi Zorba,
You make some very valid points, and as you say the Naim product does a superb job, wherever it is in the pecking order.

Thank Heavens the Naim team know what they're doing.

Barrie

quote:

Originally posted by contaxg:
If anybody has a photo of DAC pls post it here...

I doubt the company would really welcome that as it is still a prototype, and quite understandably, but needless to say it looks like a slim Nait amp without a volume control.

Fender (Strat)

Hi Gary1 (us)

"Barrie, the problem is not that the SN DAC is bad."

I agree, I think the S/N DAC is very capable

"I'd bet that the HDX (source first) is the better sounding stand alone device."

Time will tell, but you may well be right.

The S/N is great for me as I have the satellite, HD recorder, DVD, CD and when required the mac connected. If i use an HDX then I would just re-allocate the S/N dac to something else - there are some great HD concerts on TV these days.

Barrie
 

quote:

Originally posted by contaxg:
If anybody has a photo of DAC pls post it here...

Just got back from the Bristol Show and the 10th Floor. The following is purely from memory - I didn't take any notes - so please take with a pinch of salt - particularly the running sequence of the demos.

The DAC is in development. The equipment on dem wasn't really a prototype - it didn't have its own intended internal power supply for example. The model on dem was housed in a 5 Series case and will no doubt be aimed at the 5 Series market at a target price of £2k. There isn't any "specification" for the DAC as yet. Target release is this summer.

I got the impression Naim might well be developing a range of DACs. MY guess (note the emphasis on MY) is that the £2k, 5 Series DAC, will be the mid-range model and will be upgradeable by the addition of external power supplies.

The show dem started with an HDX/552/500/SL2/n-Sub. It sounded really good, but not as good as a CDS3/555PS and nothing like as good as a cds555/555ps into the same amp/speakers - but bear in mind the dem room is NOT an ideal room and has been significantly changed from the Presidential Suite of old. The music source was HDD WAV files ripped on the HDX (I have no idea what any of that means!) and all original sources were Red Book 44.1 khz standard commercially available CDs.

The next dem introduced the 555ps to the HDX and the musical quality improved. IMHO the improvement wasn't worth the cost of a 555ps, (£5.5k) but no doubt others will disagree.

Dem 3 saw the new DAC replace the DAC in the HDX. The new DAC was powered by the 555ps (remember it hasn't got its intended internal power supply in place yet!). This combination struck me as being streets ahead of the HDX/555ps combination and worth the extra £7.5k over the bare HDX. On the basis of this part of the dem, I would currently conclude that the 5 Series DAC will be a better quality DAC than the one inside the HDX - and could be used as an external up-grade to the HDX.

The final part of the Dem saw the HDX removed completely and the same music track supplied from the Mac computer to the DAC/555ps. The sound quality was rubbish - IMHO of course (quite a few others in the dem felt the Mac source was better than the HDX source!!!). Well, not really rubbish, even Naim can make a good effort at getting the best out of a mediocre source. If you want to keep all your music on a memory stick (or similar) and be able to access it via your PC/Mac/i-Player etc etc then I suggest you give this Naim DAC a listen when it comes out. It will probably knock the pants off any other DAC at £2k and probably anything up to twice that price. And if at some stage you want to improve on the DAC, Naim's range of separate power supplies will be perfect partners such that your Naim DAC may never become obsolete.

I bought a copy of Phantom Limb at the show - on vinyl of course............

Hope this is of some (passing) interest to Forum members who aren't embroiled in their "specification" war.

cheers

Don

Thanks Don,

Nice to hear your experiences and thoughts

Barrie

Thanks Don - really useful write-up.