Toyota Prius
Posted by: Sloop John B on 22 May 2008
Looking to replace an aging (1992) Volvo 940 which is mainly used in Dublin city and suburbs.
I am considering a 4 or 5 year old Prius.
Does anyone drive one?
Anything I should know that doesn't appear in the glossy marketing paraphernalia?
Thanks,
John
SJB
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by Jono 13
There are some serious replacement and end-of-life issues surrounding the batteries.
It would be greener to keep driving the old Volvo.
Plus I think they look shite!
Jono
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by djftw
Indeed, they are a bit of a con. Over their lifetime the environmental impact can be bigger than a lot of non hybrid small cars. Whether your concern is running costs or the environment I would go for a small, reasonably modern diesel, something like a 1.4TDI Audi A2 gets incredible mileage, and if you get an auto they have an eco mode which does all sorts of clever things to save even more fuel; or as you're mainly doing city driving a Smart.
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by BigH47
quote:
There are some serious replacement and end-of-life issues surrounding the batteries.
There are some serious pre-life issues with the batteries too.
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by northpole
Not to mention that Honda is reputed to have been completely subsidised by the Japanese government to develop this technology.
My suspicion is that you would be better served steering well clear of these cars once past 3 or 4 years old unless Toyota are offering air tight warranties on battery costs.
Personally, I agree with Jono - they look terrible & the Volvo can make a really strong case for itself!
Alternatively, much better (than Prius) to stretch to a BMW diesel which will provide much more driver interaction, power, and similar or better fuel economy - BMW really are at the top of their game with engine technology.
The A2 is an astonishing car which never really caught on - fantastic amount of space inside & economy as djftw says - only concern would be body repair costs for all aluminium construction. I'd still be tempted when I decide to go sensible!
Peter
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
ersonally, I agree with Jono - they look terrible
I think they look great - didn't Captain Scarlett used to drive one?
S-I-G
Rotf
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by Jono 13
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
quote:
ersonally, I agree with Jono - they look terrible
I think they look great - didn't Captain Scarlett used to drive one?
S-I-G
Rotf
Now this is a car for the captain..
SIG
Jono
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by Ewan Aye
*
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by Ewan Aye
quote:
Originally posted by Ewan Aye:
quote:
didn't Captain Scarlett used to drive one?
No, you're thinking of Ed Straker in UFO
Oh no..that's not it...hang on a a mo...
The trouble with the Prius is that the technology it used is 10 years old now, and this is a market that is in a development race at the moment. The sensible buy is the BMW because they'll give you a proper executive car with the economy of a Prius in one package, but the BMW badge remains an enemy target among environmentalists because of their X5 type guzzlers, so you'll not win any friends. People just can't tell that you are being green, so you'll get sneered at anyway.
The niche market is in small diesels that everyone wants and are in demand, and look the part. The clever buys right now are Fiats new 500, which is gorgeous (65 mpg) & the Mini Cooper diesel 1.6 (70 mpg).
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by Ewan Aye
Personally, I think this is pretty much the perfect car. Super economical, not too much money to buy, stylish, retro in a good way, and desirable. Fours seats too.
On the cool wall - sub-zero!
(1.3 = 67 overall mpg, 78.5 mpg extra urban)
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by BigH47
quote:
Personally, I think this is pretty much the perfect car. Super economical, not too much money to buy, stylish, retro in a good way, and desirable. Fours seats too.
On the cool wall - sub-zero!
(1.3 = 67 overall mpg, 78.5 mpg extra urban)
Survivability how much?
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by Ewan Aye
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by Rockingdoc
and another thing about the Prius. Nearly got my legs crushed yesterday as some old bat suddenly decided to reverse hers into me when I was looking the other way. As she had it in battery stealth mode, it really was totaly silent.
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by Chris Kelly
The whole smugness thing surrounding the Prius should be enough to deter most of us!
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by djftw
quote:
only concern would be body repair costs for all aluminium construction.
It has got a lot cheaper now aluminium has become more common in car construction. The A2 really is/was a fantastic car, you could actually sit adults in the back, and with the rear seats out you could fit a ridiculous amount of stuff in it, more than you could get in most larger hatchbacks with the seats down.
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by djftw
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Kelly:
The whole smugness thing surrounding the Prius should be enough to deter most of us!
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by jayd
quote:
Originally posted by Jono 13:
Now this is a car for the captain..
Ah, the Subaru Cervix. Sweet ride.
Posted on: 24 May 2008 by Sloop John B
I've obviously done the equivalent of recommending one of these
in preference to a SuperNait in the HiFi Room.
As usual some interesting views about the Prius. I usually go for cars at the wrong end of their depreciation curve - The main car is a Lexus LS 400 (1995) bought for the princely sum of €8000.I was toying with the idea of a Lexus IS or Toyota Camry to replace the Volvo when a salesman offered a splendid 2001 Lexus 430 for €15,000 but Mrs Sloop was horrified at the thought of having a second gas guzzler on the drive. She had the same reaction to a 2000 S type Jag. This is when I did a mental flip and thought of a Prius. I love the Volvo but my mechanic has retired and it is a high maintenance vehicle and if it sits down on Mrs Sloop and the children it's obviously my fault!
Small cars just don't do it for Mrs Sloop her father having both a Ford Zephyr and Zodiac during her formative years.
Thanks for the encouragement
and all suggestions are welcome.
SJBPosted on: 24 May 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear SJB,
I do find it hard to understand why the Volvo is a high maintenance car. My 240 GL [though I plan to scrap it in the Autumn at the aged of nearly twenty] has run for the last eight years with only one big bill, for rebushing the back axle two years ago. In fact that was not so expensive [about £180]. Otherwise it has had one new battery, a couple of cam belts, over the time a complete exhaust system except for the "cat," and four tyres, with normal routine annual servicing and MOT testing, so I am not complaining. There is still no corrosion anywhere on the car at all, so it seems a shame to kill her off, but things move on. Pedal power will be taking over for me!
I know some of the Volvo [2.3 litre] engines can be heavy on fuel with a higher state of tune, but mine is the low powered [116 bhp] version and is still good for 40 mpg on long runs and about 36 mpg on pottering about.
George
Posted on: 24 May 2008 by av in bc
hi john
well mostly comments from people who don't drive or own one.
i bought my 2001 almost 4 years ago, this car is almost bullet proof.
i drive the car every day, all day, as a courier i put on about 40,000 miles a year.
i have saved an average of $3000 a year on fuel and about another $1000 on maintenance.
as an example i still have original brakes (pads, shoes, rotors, everything) after 160,000 miles!
as traffic in my city gets worse and worse it's nice not to be idling while stuck in traffic.
as far as the batteries, i have not heard of a single failure or anyone having replaced theirs
(at least on priusonline.com). they are just rechargeble nickel-metal hydride batteries and i assume can be recycled like any other. after all the japanese are fanatical about recycling.
mine (older model) will not be confused with a sports car but the extra torque the electric motors give
makes the car hard to beat off the line and the single gear ratio (like a cvt transmission) makes for
smooth accelerations and ride. i also like the lack of a starter and alternator, less stuff to break down
and two almost guaranteed repairs if you drive your car long enough.
purchase price = $18000 can
savings so far = $15000 can
keeping in mind that this does not include repairs that i haven't had to do
like brakes, timing belt (it uses a chain), starter, alternator and since the gasoline engine only does
half the work it requires very little care.
there is not really any other choice in america if you want an alternative/high fuel economy car
except for the 2 seater smart car and the honda civic hybrid.
i have to agree that with the great selection of diesels in europe the prius is a harder sell
Posted on: 25 May 2008 by Sloop John B
Thanks av in bc nice to hear from a prius owner. The prius forum is interesting and as one would expect similar to the Naim forum in it's enthusiasm for it's raison d'être.
My comment about high maintenance George was specific to my car. There are a few issues with it that I know are likely to cost up to €1000. Also the fact that my long standing mechanic has retired and I've yet to find a replacement I have faith in is adding to my apprehension about repairs.
Posted on: 25 May 2008 by av in bc
it's true that if and when the prius breaks down
especially with anything to do with the hybrid system
repair costs are high and you would be forced to go to
a toyota hybryd certified mechanic but that is the case
with most new cars nowadays as they are more and more
complex and use proprietary parts and technology.
Posted on: 25 May 2008 by Sloop John B
I was referring to my current 1992 Volvo in response to George when I mentioned high maintenance.
Generally Toyota is a very reliable brand and the hybrid system seems also to be.
I'm amazed at the strength of negative feeling towards the Prius, reminds me of some Naim haters over on Pink Fish.
SJB
Posted on: 26 May 2008 by Ewan Aye
quote:
Originally posted by Sloop John B:
I'm amazed at the strength of negative feeling towards the Prius,
SJB
Me too. If I had one, I'd be very happy to keep it, but as I have a Lexus, I'm gagging to ditch it. I'd do a straight swap today.
Right now, I still think the latest diesels have the edge on economy, even though I don't trust the government to wait until everyone has gone diesel, and then quadruples the cost of diesel over petrol. It's just the sort of con they would pull.
Posted on: 27 May 2008 by DAVOhorn
Dear All,
I just do not get Hybrid cars.
Dragging along 3 of me for the ride (weight of the batteries) while still running an underpowered petrol engine is in my bigoted view pointless.
When running on petrol it burns fuel like any other car. When running on batteries i presume it burnt coal,gas,nuclear to charge batteries.
I am surprised by the comments on life span of brakes as the cars are heavy.
But here we go.
The Future Is Here just ask Jay Leno.
The TESLA a poroject with Lotus and TESLA.
0-60mph 4 secs
150mph
Lotus Elise Chassis and Tesla motor batteries and control system.
THis new generation of electric car could work.
But it still burns coal gas nuclear to charge batteries.
I read in a magazine WHEELS or MOTOR here in Aus about the energy content of fuel and energy storage systems.
To have the same energy content as 50 lts of petrol you would need 3500kgs of lead acid batteries.
It takes 5 mins to put that energy into a petrol car but probably a fortnight from the domestic electricity system to charge the batteries.
So TESLA is an interesting car , but HYBRIDS i am speechless.
I will in the near future go and have a test drive of one to better inform my self on this matter.
regards David
Posted on: 27 May 2008 by Derek Wright
Neighbour has a Prius and a Ford Fiesta, it is very difficult for him to get the same economy with the Prius as he gets in the Fiesta.
On two occasions he was not able to start the Prius after a 4 week layoff, the small battery failed (ie the battery that powers the control system rather than the motive power batteries - equivalent to a Bios battery in a PC I guess)
